Benefits of Public Sector over Private Sector

snoopboggybog

I have interview in three weeks for a role, obviously salary is better and more holidays but anything i should be aware of like been easier to let go etc.

Has there been ever a huge layoff of public sector staff?

Thanks

Lux23

I think a major benefit is that you won't ever be laid off, but you could be asked to take early retirement. When comparing the salary, make sure you take into account pension payments because your net pay can be a lot smaller than expected.

tayto lover

If you have a good job in the Private Sector then stay in it.
Better money and perks there.

thomasdylan

tayto lover wrote: »

If you have a good job in the Private Sector then stay in it.
Better money and perks there.

I think they're saying the money is the job they're applying for is better than their current private sector gig?

Public sector job will be more secure which is going to be very important in the next few years.

snoopboggybog

30 days holidays compared to 22 in my current role
Extra 7K now and be extra 15k in total after a couple of years.

Job is a lot easier than my current role as well

Mrs OBumble

Lux23 wrote: »

I think a major benefit is that you won't ever be laid off,

I don't think that's really guaranteed. The government could easily enough change the laws to allow it.

kippy

snoopboggybog wrote: »

30 days holidays compared to 22 in my current role
Extra 7K now and be extra 15k in total after a couple of years.

Job is a lot easier than my current role as well

That 15k extra is more likely to be 6 years or more away as opposed to a couple of years.
You'll generally end up with a lot less net pay than the equivalent private sector pay. No bonus, no healthcare no additional perks that are available in some private sector jobs.
There are things in the public sector that will rankle you but that's the same as private I suppose.
A thing called collective bargaining can work for or against you. Compulsory redundancy is rare enough but can happen. Compulsorary redeployment can happen.

Arealred

I would suprised if interview went ahead for any job in next few weeks particularly in the public sector where they generally interview alot of candidates. With social distancing it could be a good while before interviews take place. Maybe it's via zoom?

GalwayGrrrrrl

Our department has done Skype/zoom interviews over the last few weeks. Public sector, small number of candidates for a specialist role.

Pkiernan

snoopboggybog wrote: »

30 days holidays compared to 22 in my current role
Extra 7K now and be extra 15k in total after a couple of years.

Job is a lot easier than my current role as well

You forgot to add the 40 sick day holidays

whampiri

Pkiernan wrote: »

You forgot to add the 40 sick day holidays

Where did you see this? Sounds great! I could be outraged but I know it's not true.

@op. There are a number of positives and negatives to working in the CS vs the Private sector.

Advantage
Family friendly work practice
Generally better job security
Great training and development opportunities
Large organisations with varied work
Wage negotiation through unions
Set Annual increments based on acceptable performance

Disadvantage
No bonuses
No benefit in kind
You'll never earn super high wages
No direct wage negotiation
Higher pay for higher qualification
Promotion based on competitions not performance

kazamo

Pension, in the years to come this will make a big difference in how financially secure you are in your retirement.
There are very few DC schemes in the private sector and they are closed to new entrants anyway, some for over 20 years.

Pkiernan

whampiri wrote: »

Where did you see this? Sounds great! I could be outraged but I know it's not true..

You're right, I grossly underestimated it.

The Paid Sick Leave scheme provides for a maximum of 92 days on full pay in a rolling one year period, followed by a maximum of 91 days on half pay.

This is subject to a maximum of 183 days paid sick leave in a rolling four year period.

Treppen

kazamo wrote: »

Pension, in the years to come this will make a big difference in how financially secure you are in your retirement.
There are very few DC schemes in the private sector and they are closed to new entrants anyway, some for over 20 years.

Pension for public sector has changed to career average now, so if the op is in the more senior side then might not be all that great. And it's taken out of your wages whether you like it or not.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Pkiernan wrote: »

You're right, I grossly underestimated it.

The Paid Sick Leave scheme provides for a maximum of 92 days on full pay in a rolling one year period, followed by a maximum of 91 days on half pay.

This is subject to a maximum of 183 days paid sick leave in a rolling four year period.

So you're intimating that every public servant takes 183 days paid sick leave in 4 years? Stop. Sign me (back) up!

whampiri

Pkiernan wrote: »

You're right, I grossly underestimated it.

The Paid Sick Leave scheme provides for a maximum of 92 days on full pay in a rolling one year period, followed by a maximum of 91 days on half pay.

This is subject to a maximum of 183 days paid sick leave in a rolling four year period.

You are misrepresenting the facts. There's a sick leave scheme in place for people who require it. It's not automatic as you insinuate and most people are fortunate enough not to need it.

snoopboggybog

So lets say my starting wage is 50K, how much of that has to go into a pension and what would take home pay be versus private sector.

jim o doom

From a department I have knowledge of, you can have max 5 days uncertified sick leave over a 2 year period, and if your certified sick leave exceeds certain levels, you won't get your pay increment, and you will be prevented from getting promotions.

According to this journal article from 2016, public servants take on average 8.5 sick days a year vs 4.5 in the private sector, so this whole thing of taking 92 sick days is ridiculous. There may be some staff members with genuine problems like serious depression or illnesses that increase the average to 8.5, but large amounts of sick leave being taken left and right is definitely incorrect. https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-public-sector-sick-days-2869650-Jul2016/#:~:text=Public%20servants%20average%208.5%20sick,the%20public%20service%20in%202015.

In terms of wage increases - generally speaking, unless you are high up level like AP / Principal Officer, your increment each year is in or around a grand, so your bi-weekly wage increases can be between €8 to €20, and if you are getting a high level like PO or A-Sec and above, you are going to be dealing with a serious amount of stress. Even people at AP level can be worked to the bone for the money they are earning.

The leave is a huge advantage, and many departments have implemented distance working protocols in the face of Covid (where possible), and I hope this means that there will be more people given the ability to work from home as a result of this sea change in practice. There is also flexi time operated if you are not on a specific shift in some departments, currently suspended due to the pandemic.

There is also good training opportunities and many departments will repay the fees for courses that you complete that are relevant to your role, this sort of thing can be excellent for career progression, if that is something that you are interested in.

Like any job, you could get a department or area with a/hole bosses and/or colleagues, or you can end up in one with very driven and friendly people, that's really down to the luck of the draw. Some areas are incredibly backwards, some are very forward thinking.. again down to luck.

edit -

Also, if there is a recession / economic contraction, your terms and conditions will be unilaterally changed, your hours increased, and your wages decreased, along with multi-year moritoriums on recruitment, meaning that your departments will shrink and workload grow over a period of many years - I am very muchexpecting this to happen in the near future as a result of worldwide recession we are about to face as a result of the pandemic. (worth it though as you get to have a job, even if it is paying less).

Geuze

snoopboggybog wrote: »

So lets say my starting wage is 50K, how much of that has to go into a pension and what would take home pay be versus private sector.

It's complex.

Start with 6.5%.

Plus 3.33% ASC on earnings over 34,500

Then 3.5% on over 60k.

https://www.tcd.ie/hr/assets/pdf/pensions_note_asc.pdf

Sarn

snoopboggybog wrote: »

So lets say my starting wage is 50K, how much of that has to go into a pension and what would take home pay be versus private sector.

Annual take home would be approximately €34,297 Vs €36787.

Taxcalc.ie gives a good breakdown.

Pkiernan

whampiri wrote: »

You are misrepresenting the facts. There's a sick leave scheme in place for people who require it. It's not automatic as you insinuate and most people are fortunate enough not to need it.

I have stated the facts.

Public workers take on average almost twice as many sick days as private workers.

The number of sick days taken by Ireland's public servants is almost twice that taken by workers in the private sector according to new figures. Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in theprivate sector according to figures released by the Department of PublicExpenditure.

Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?

Fann Linn

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have stated the facts.

Public workers take on average almost twice as many sick days as private workers.

The number of sick days taken by Ireland's public servants is almost twice that taken by workers in the private sector according to new figures. Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in theprivate sector according to figures released by the Department of PublicExpenditure.

Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?

Nurses, medical personnel followed by attacks on Gardai, Prison officers,emergency services personnel skew these sick leave differences.

kippy

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have stated the facts.

Public workers take on average almost twice as many sick days as private workers.

The number of sick days taken by Ireland's public servants is almost twice that taken by workers in the private sector according to new figures. Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in theprivate sector according to figures released by the Department of PublicExpenditure.

Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?

I don't know what the issue is here to be honest.
There are strict protocols around sick leave.

snoopboggybog

Sarn wrote: »

Annual take home would be approximately €34,297 Vs €36787.

Taxcalc.ie gives a good breakdown.

Sorry not for sounding dumb but where does that 2500 go?

Into a private pension fund or towards the state pension?

Sir Guy who smiles

Pliernan:
Public sector workers take 40 days sick leave.

Another poster:
No they take 8.5

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have stated the facts

jim o doom

Pkiernan wrote: »

Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?

The public sector employs a higher number of staff with physical and mental disabilities than the private sector as a policy to ensure that all sorts of people can have a job. People with health issues have a higher amount of sick leave.

The public sector also supports staff who endure long term illnesses, be they mental or physical, rather than forcing them out of their jobs. This brings up the average.

There are also some dickheads (that are hard to fire who take a disproportionate amount of sick leave that also brings up the average.

It does not mean that each public sector work takes 8 days of sick leave, it's an average.

Have you got any figures for your earlier "facts" where you claimed people were taking 40 days sick leave?

snoopboggybog

Garda, Prison officers, Nurses, Doctors, Firemen, Social Workers etc.

All very stressful jobs and may need sick days if something happens to them or witness something.

Do people expect a prison officer to go back the next day after getting stabbed or something or a Garda trying to resuscitate someone after been stabbed and dying.

Sir Guy who smiles

OP, in the public sector your conditions will depend on how the country is doing.

Country doing well:
You'll probably never be let go but you might be redeployed,
Your pay will go up even if you don't deserve it,
People will tell you that you do no work of value, and if you had any talent or courage you'd make real money in the private sector.

Country doing badly:

You'll probably never be let go but you might be redeployed,
Your pay will go down even if you don't deserve it,
People will tell you that you do no work of value, and that you are part of a closeted elite that is ruining the country.

nthclare

I'd just work in an environment you're happy with.
I studied horticulture and arboriculture, got a job in the public sector in forestry and parklands.

The pay is good, I get all the best PPE and when the weather is too bad outside I have a nursery and workshop for maintaining machinery, and raring plants... an automated irrigation system included.
Heater's if it's freezing and a laptop included for ordering stock, rarely do I have to engage with the HR staff or procurement on a one to one basis.

You'll get people here telling you one's better than the other but I'd tell them they haven't a clue about contentment and joy in the work place.

Asking people on Board's for advice brings out people who have a personal gripe with the job security of public sector workers.
A lot of them are insecure about the private sector and need to vent on board's.

Security is better than insecurity that's for sure.
I've read it all on Board's and have myself experienced the come down from people leaving the public sector for a so called lucrative deal in the private sector with its perks and benefits.
Sadly the private sector is ruthless and if you want to be successful you have to move Jobs every 3 year's, especially in management and CEO positions which are mostly fluff jobs anyhow...

At the end of the day it's your choice, but I'd be leaning towards the public sector myself.

So what if people take more sick leave in the public sector, we're working too many hours anyhow. Not enough down time to breathe and relax, were not designed to be all work and no rest.

It's sad to see so called professional private sector workers staying on until all hour's to put money into the pockets of someone else, wasting electricity and water just for a pat on the back by their peer's and also not to go home to face the family...

If you have to work overtime on a salary that pays you for 40 hrs a week it's a sign you're incompetent and can't fulfill the requirements for your position,and are overworked...

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't think that's really guaranteed. The government could easily enough change the laws to allow it.

Lol. Watch the union backlash if that happened.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Good pay in some sectors. Teachers start on 34k and go up to 64k with no added responsibility.

30 days leave as opposed to 22.

Private sector pensions are at the mercy of the economy and the government can decide to step in and take a lump out. Public pensions are guaranteed. Public pensions are calculated as (number of years service / 80) X final salary.

Harder to fire for poor performance.

Absenteeism not punished in the same way.

Little or no performance reviews or PIP schemes.

Sarn

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Sorry not for sounding dumb but where does that 2500 go?

Into a private pension fund or towards the state pension?

Compulsory pension deductions.

snoopboggybog

Sarn wrote: »

Compulsory pension deductions.

So justs get taking off you for the state pension?

snoopboggybog

Thanks everyone for their insights as well.

From what I can gather the public sector seems to be much better, 22 days holidays versus 30 days is a big plus for me.

Pay Increase for myself.

Better job opportunities.

More chances for promotion.

Planning on a mortgage next year for myself so the extra bump in wages will be huge for me as a single applicant.

I'll do the interview anyway and see what comes of it.

jim o doom

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Public pensions are guaranteed. Public pensions are calculated as (number of years service / 80) X final salary.

Absenteeism not punished in the same way.

Little or no performance reviews or PIP schemes.

These two are incorrect, I'm not naming departments but I know for a fact that your total lifetime salary is how your pension is now calculated, following the recession, rather than end salary.

Wage increments are witheld for excessive absenteeism, and there are indeed PIP training for managers and official schemes in place. How widely used they are is another matter, I have no figures for that.

There is also goal setting, mid year review and end of year reviews for staff performance, but like any place, if you are friendly with your manager you may get better reviews even with poorer pefeformance.

I know multiple people working in private banks, such as BOI / AIB, and it's the same as the public sector in there. Hard to fire staff, very little in the way of PIP's, there are staff reviews but they generally go well as staff that review badly are hard to move to other sections.

Cyrus

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Thanks everyone for their insights as well.

From what I can gather the public sector seems to be much better, 22 days holidays versus 30 days is a big plus for me.

Pay Increase for myself.

Better job opportunities.

More chances for promotion.

Planning on a mortgage next year for myself so the extra bump in wages will be huge for me as a single applicant.

I'll do the interview anyway and see what comes of it.

if its promotion you want the private sector is the place to go for it, public sector progression is slow no matter what you do.

from your earlier posts more holiday and a easier job appears to be as strong a motivation, if thats the case sounds like a good move.

jim o doom

Cyrus wrote: »

if its promotion you want the private sector is the place to go for it, public sector progression is slow no matter what you do.

from your earlier posts more holiday and a easier job appears to be as strong a motivation, if thats the case sounds like a good move.

This is not necessarily true - I know people who went from Clerical officer to Higher Executive officer within months (a 2 grade jump) and it was a year after that they got Assistant Principal. Other people try for years.

It's very much down to how many promotional competitions are run, and how well educated and capable you are. If the opportunitues don't arise, you won't get promoted, if they do and you aren't good enough.. same situation.

Given that there's a recession looming, promotions are going to start drying up soon.

In terms of job difficulty, that's down to the department you end up in, and the level of job you are doing. If you are at AP level working in a busy department working on Brexit, or something like that, you are going to be worked to the bone.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

jim o doom wrote: »

These two are incorrect, I'm not naming departments but I know for a fact that your total lifetime salary is how your pension is now calculated, following the recession, rather than end salary.

Wage increments are witheld for excessive absenteeism, and there are indeed PIP training for managers and official schemes in place. How widely used they are is another matter, I have no figures for that.

There is also goal setting, mid year review and end of year reviews for staff performance, but like any place, if you are friendly with your manager you may get better reviews even with poorer pefeformance.

I know multiple people working in private banks, such as BOI / AIB, and it's the same as the public sector in there. Hard to fire staff, very little in the way of PIP's, there are staff reviews but they generally go well as staff that review badly are hard to move to other sections.

Every day is a school day. I wasn't aware of that.

I heard Public Sector workers don't pay PRSI. So are they not entitled to state pension?

What about optical and dental benefits? Or Job seekers if they're laid off?

Cyrus

jim o doom wrote: »

This is not necessarily true - I know people who went from Clerical officer to Higher Executive officer within months (a 2 grade jump) and it was a year after that they got Assistant Principal. Other people try for years.

ok fair enough, that wouldnt be that common though i guess?

i spent some time in one of the more commercial semi states, filled with very capable people but the rate of progression is glacial.

snoopboggybog

Can anyone explain to me how the pension works here? I have no clue.

Completely different than the private sector?

jim o doom

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I heard Public Sector workers don't pay PRSI. So are they not entitled to state pension?

What about optical and dental benefits? Or Job seekers if they're laid off?

So another poster shared taxcalc.ie - if you go on there and input that you are a civil servant you can see what deductions are made, and they do include PRSI they are: civil service pension, USC, PRSI, and PAYE.

Public employees are employees and pay all the same taxes at the same rates.

No optical or dental benefits beyond what is provided for as a normal part of PRSI - aka 1 clean and examination per year for dental and nothing extra, same as everyone else.. unless of course they pay some medical scheme like the Hospital Saturday Fund.

mlem123

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Every day is a school day. I wasn't aware of that.

I heard Public Sector workers don't pay PRSI. So are they not entitled to state pension?

What about optical and dental benefits? Or Job seekers if they're laid off?

Where did you hear that?? :pac::pac:

Not true, we pay our PRSI, USC etc plus pension deduction

jim o doom

Cyrus wrote: »

ok fair enough, that wouldnt be that common though i guess?

i spent some time in one of the more commercial semi states, filled with very capable people but the rate of progression is glacial.

Not super common, and it very much depends on the economy.. like many jobs. If things are going well, there are a lot of promotion competitions, and once you are good enough to get them, you can fly up the ladder. I know a girl who hit principal officer around 34.

But if there's a recession, there's no promotions and no new hirees for years as the various organisations continually haemorrage staff through retirements and deaths, meaning fewer and fewer people doing more and more work.

Cheeseplant

Pkiernan wrote: »

You're right, I grossly underestimated it.

The Paid Sick Leave scheme provides for a maximum of 92 days on full pay in a rolling one year period, followed by a maximum of 91 days on half pay.

This is subject to a maximum of 183 days paid sick leave in a rolling four year period.

For critical illness is it not?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

mlem123 wrote: »

Where did you hear that?? :pac::pac:

Not true, we pay our PRSI, USC etc plus pension deduction

I heard teachers don't pay PRSI so I assumed it applied to all public workers. I was clearly mistaken :pac:

History Queen

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I heard teachers don't pay PRSI so I assumed it applied to all public workers. I was clearly mistaken :pac:

Teachers do pay PRSI

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

History Queen wrote: »

Teachers do pay PRSI

I must've had my wires crossed.

I always had it in my head that certain public workers were not entitled to the state pension (they only got their ps pension) and as such were exempt from PRSI.

Technocentral

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I heard teachers don't pay PRSI so I assumed it applied to all public workers. I was clearly mistaken :pac:

???? Everyone in Ireland pays PRSI!

babaracus

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I must've had my wires crossed.

I always had it in my head that certain public workers were not entitled to the state pension (they only got their ps pension) and as such were exempt from PRSI.

You are thinking of those recruited prior to 1995 - they pay a much lower rate of PRSI and build up no entitlement to the State contributory pension (old age pension).

All Public and Civil Servants recruited since April 1995 pay the same rate of full PRSI as every other person in the state.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

babaracus wrote: »

You are thinking of those recruited prior to 1995 - they pay a much lower rate of PRSI and build up no entitlement to the State contributory pension (old age pension).

All Public and Civil Servants recruited since April 1995 pay the same rate of full PRSI as every other person in the state.

I see. The grass is always greener as they say.

What type of deductions are made for unions?

dubrov

Don't overrate the pension.
You will be on an average salary pension and have to pay pension contributions and the pension levy.
It is also net of the state pension.

Say your average salary is 60k per year and the state pension is 10k per year.
If you work 40 years you will receive 60*40/80 = 30k a year net of the state pension.
So it is really only worth 20k per year in your pension to you.
That's still pretty good but as I say you have to pay for it.
Personally I would see a private role that contributed 8-10% of your salary to a defined contribution pension as being superior.

Another thing to consider is that when you hit the top of the band, it may be difficult to move up a level.
In many cases it is easier to move to the private sector and return than try and get an internal promotion.

Lastly, don't expect to work with cutting edge technologies.
Risk is the priority, not output so things can be very slow to change