22,698 people recovered in Ireland so far. But how many of them are 100% ok after?

Akrasia

Peregrinus wrote: »

The point is that there is a spectrum of severity, from asymptomatic to grave, even fatal, illness.

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.


I don't mean to make light of it - "man-flu" is not a flu at all; it's typically a heavy cold. Many people think they've had the flu when they haven't, and when they hear that CV19 may be more severe, or less severe, than the flu, the "flu" they are mentally comparing in their head is nothing like an actual flu.

I think the HSE are putting out the message that 80% are mild, because if they didn’t, then a lot more people would demand medical treatment rather than tough it out at home and our hospitals couldn’t cope with that

They’re not lying to the public, they’re emphasizing that for most people the best available treatment is resting at home

karlitob

Peregrinus wrote: »

The point is that there is a spectrum of severity, from asymptomatic to grave, even fatal, illness.

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.


I don't mean to make light of it - "man-flu" is not a flu at all; it's typically a heavy cold. Many people think they've had the flu when they haven't, and when they hear that CV19 may be more severe, or less severe, than the flu, the "flu" they are mentally comparing in their head is nothing like an actual flu.

I know - I’ve already made the point about spectrum of diseases.

I disagree with your interpretation of others people’s interpretation of ‘mild’. But it’s ok to disagree.

Agree with flu vs cold.

I was going for faux outrage with the ‘make light of it’. It is a sexist comment and you’d never say anything derogatory about women and any illnesses a woman might have. But I’m not offended.

Akrasia

rusty cole wrote: »

A very fat, unfit, obese man of 55 years had it, was hospitalised and for all the media to see...was on death door by their accounts!!

cut to a few weeks later and he's seen out running in London!!!

Boris Johnson...

Either he didn't have it at all, or tons of people have what may be Undiagnosed Underlying conditions as has been discussed

Ever hear of a false dichotomy?

karlitob

Akrasia wrote: »

I think the HSE are putting out the message that 80% are mild, because if they didn’t, then a lot more people would demand medical treatment rather than tough it out at home and our hospitals couldn’t cope with that

They’re not lying to the public, they’re emphasizing that for most people the best available treatment is resting at home

I sincerely doubt that is what’s happening.

They are not ‘putting out the message’. It’s information that is provided as a public service. Or else the HSE might be accused of a cover up (again).

But the HSE do advise to care for yourself at home if you can. See

https://www2.hse.ie/under-the-weather/



And they also advise on how to care for yourself at home with Covid 19. It’s not a secret.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/managing-coronavirus-at-home/treat-symptoms-at-home.html

hmmm

Peregrinus wrote: »

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.

"You had a mild case of light pneumonia."

There's so much unknown about this virus and the potential long-term impacts - people are focused only on the initial symptoms. We know about lungs and blood clotting, but potentially also:
Kidneys - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2020/04/10/2020.03.04.20031120.full.pdf
Brain and nervous system - https://www.j-alz.com/content/three-stages-covid-19-brain-damage-identified-top-neurologists-journal-alzheimer-disease
Heart - https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/04/covid-19s-consequences-for-the-heart/

This is not just a flu.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Ever hear of a false dichotomy?

no I'm thick and ignorant with a dependency issue where Wikipedia is concerned....a bit like yourself. how much do I owe ye for these pearls of wisdom you're about to adorn me with?

karlitob

rusty cole wrote: »

A very fat, unfit, obese man of 55 years had it, was hospitalised and for all the media to see...was on death door by their accounts!!

cut to a few weeks later and he's seen out running in London!!!

Boris Johnson...

Either he didn't have it at all, or tons of people have what may be Undiagnosed Underlying conditions as has been discussed

It’s not clear what point you are trying to make here.

Tonnes have people have been ‘undiagnosed’ with Covid-19 - home and worldwide. Either because they weren’t tested - for a variety of reasons including being asymptomatic so they did not present or the public health policy was to restrict or stop testing; or because there was insufficient viral load to detect Covid-19 and therefore were not diagnosed with an infection that may clinically have.

If your point is that there’s loads of people who have not been diagnosed (if that’s what you mean by ‘undiagnosed’) then this again is true. Tonnes of people - both at home and abroad, may not be diagnosed with an underlying health condition for the same reasons as above, long with poor access to healthcare, poor health literacy etc etc.

You clearly think that there’s some form of conspiracy. Would be great to better understand what your point is and what evidence you have to support it.

ShineOn7

Eye opening stuff https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53056785

Coronavirus: Twelve weeks on I can't kick Covid exhaustion

Twelve weeks after his first Covid-19 symptoms, 28-year-old Callum O'Dwyer is still not better.

A fit and healthy young man, he had no underlying health conditions before he caught the virus.
But after five weeks of fighting of the main symptoms, he could no longer look after himself and had to move in with his parents.

Recovery has taken much longer than he imagined and his ongoing symptoms mean he still can't live on his own or work.
Doctors have told Callum he has post-viral fatigue, a hangover from coronavirus which is affecting many survivors.
Nicola Sturgeon was just hours away from announcing lockdown in Scotland on 23 March when Callum first felt ill.

He told BBC Scotland's Drivetime with Fiona Stalker: "I had actually just picked up stuff for my home office to start working from home.
"I felt really fatigued and then nausea and then hour-by-hour it was like an advent calendar of new symptoms - a fever started to develop and then more things kicked off."

He added: "For 10 days I was off my feet with what felt like a really really bad flu. I had never been as sick as that and it was very full-on. Early on, I suspected it was likely to be Covid."
Another thing Callum developed was a persistent shortness of breath and on two occasions he had to call 111 because he was struggling to breathe.

'Rationing energy'

After two weeks most of his symptoms went away and he was left with shortness of breath, fatigue and muscle weakness. They were severe and his doctor said he had hit a post-viral phase in his recovery.
Callum said: "I was resting in my bed for six to eight hours a day and I was struggling to pick things up. I am a 28-year-old guy and not long ago I was running races.

"I had a one litre water bottle and I was struggling to pick that up at arms' length, I was that weak."
He was rationing his energy to do the things he had to - washing dishes, washing clothes. He was struggling to have phone conversations without feeling pain in his abdomen from talking. And mentally not being able to speak to anyone left him in "a bad place" .

He said: "I was unwell in my flat by myself. It constantly felt like I was seeing false summits, thinking I was getting better, I could get over this, but then it got worse again, then it got better and then worse again.
"I made a decision after five weeks that I physically couldn't look after myself anymore."

Free from the virus, he moved into his parents' house a few miles away.
He said: "I was deeply depressed. I moved back into my parents' to effectively get care.
"The first day I got here I was struggling and in pain to get up the stairs."

Callum has improved but now, 12 weeks later he still feels shortness of breath, triggered by any exertion.
He said: "It's so frustrating. I am at 12 weeks and there has been so much false hope. I currently can't live independently and I can't work and that's a very difficult circumstance.

"When we talk about Covid we talk about life and death and there is no conversation about people being affected months later. I think we should put support measures in place for people."

lainey_d_123

I know 10 people who have definitely had it, and 6 of them have had very serious complications and are still extremely unwell, even after weeks. Either with severe respiratory systems or terrible fatigue, like the man in the above post describes. All of these people are previously fit and healthy people under 40. Mostly male, but a good female friend of mine has had it very bad as well.

The notion that we were fed at the beginning of all of this, that it was just a bad flu, was a huge lie. It's clear that in the best case scenario, the effects can last for weeks in a huge proportion of patients. The worst case scenario may look much, much worse. Maybe lifelong damage. It's a really, really nasty virus.

ShineOn7

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I know 10 people who have definitely had it.

That's a crazy number. I believe you, but crazy all the same

Even allowing for "friends of friends" and "sister in law's Aunty" type of connections I still only know of three who've had it. A HSE worker and two people in nursing homes, 3 people who were in very high risk situations

owlbethere

ShineOn7 wrote: »

That's a crazy number. I believe you, but crazy all the same

Even allowing for "friends of friends" and "sister in law's Aunty" type of connections I still only know of three who've had it. A HSE worker and two people in nursing homes, 3 people who were in very high risk situations

You don't know the person you quoted. They might work in a hospital setting and maybe a lot of their contacts are hospital based and we know healthcare workers are particularly prone to the virus because of being on the front line.

ShineOn7

owlbethere wrote: »

You don't know the person you quoted. They might work in a hospital setting and maybe a lot of their contacts are hospital based and we know healthcare workers are particularly prone to the virus because of being on the front line.

True

Maybe Lainey can tell us

owlbethere

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Eye opening stuff https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53056785

That's though. That lad would be considered a mild case, mild as in not needing hospitalisation.

Are these people who are experiencing a long tail illness, been taken into hospital for tests and x rays to find out the true prognosis of their illness?

I read in the earlier days of this virus that people are experiencing damaged lungs even people who show a mild case and even children who can be asymptomatic with the virus.

lainey_d_123

ShineOn7 wrote: »

That's a crazy number. I believe you, but crazy all the same

Even allowing for "friends of friends" and "sister in law's Aunty" type of connections I still only know of three who've had it. A HSE worker and two people in nursing homes, 3 people who were in very high risk situations

Well, I'm in London, where there have been many more infections. It's been estimated that up to 1 in 5 people here have been infected!

5 of those 10 people I know are from my team at work (5 people makes up a third of the team), which makes me think there may well have been a cluster at work. I had some mild breathing issues/chest pain and cold-like symptoms back in early March but have not had an antibody test so no way to know as yet.

Two of the people are acquaintances I met through my ex, based in London, and one is a friend of mine who now lives in New York and got the virus there. The others are two ICU doctors who worked in central London, and both of those recovered fairly quickly and seem OK now.

byhookorbycrook

People under sixty believe that “ not dying “ means they are all ok .

lainey_d_123

owlbethere wrote: »

You don't know the person you quoted. They might work in a hospital setting and maybe a lot of their contacts are hospital based and we know healthcare workers are particularly prone to the virus because of being on the front line.

Only two of the people worked in a hospital, but I'm in London and it was/is extremely prevalent here. Most of those people are direct, first hand contacts, not friends of friends (with the exception of a couple who were more friends of my ex, but am still in contact with them).

Half of the 10 are from my team at work, so I'd say there's a reasonable chance I was infected myself, although I am EXTREMELY cautious and mostly working from home by early March, so I might not have got it.

ShineOn7

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm in London

Ah, that explains it better

Glad you''ve avoided it. I literally wouldn't have left the house over there while it was peaking. The UK government made a complete balls of things

bb1234567

owlbethere wrote: »

I thought it was reported approx 80% would get a mild dose. Approx. 20% would be more severe needing hospital care with approx 5% becoming critical and needing ICU.

The 80% that was reported for a mild dose, I thought they meant mild as in not needing hospitalization. We were led to believe in the early days that it would be like a flu for two weeks. The long tail has now been reported and brought into the mix for the 80%. Not everyone would get a long tail but its still tough going for the long tail. My understanding of this is that, it might turn out to be like a malaria type of sickness.

Well that was what was thought a few months ago at the start of the outbreak. It was an overestimate. But now antibody tests have shown how many people actually have the virus including those not reported or presenting at hospital and it is looking more like 50% asymptomatic, 43-45% mild symptoms, 3-5% hospitalisation rate, 1% ICU rate and 0.6%-1% death rate.

ShineOn7

bb1234567 wrote: »

antibody tests have shown how many people actually have the virus including those not reported or presenting at hospital and it is looking more like 50% asymptomatic, 43-45% mild symptoms, 3-5% hospitalisation rate, 1% ICU rate and 0.6%-1% death rate.

And a source to all of that? The asymptomatic % is highly disputed, I've seen everything from 5% to 50%

marilynrr

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Confirmation just now in today's briefing; "recovered" doesn't mean you're 100% (or even 70%) back to normal and it can take weeks/months to get there

This bástard virus is a weird one

[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's that weird.
The flu can take a long time to recover from especially in vulnerable people and obviously more so if there were complications. There's an elavated risk of stroke for nearly a year or so after having the flu.
I'm a healthy young woman and got the flu in early 2019, I was in bits for weeks, I went back to training after a month or so and really had to take it easy because I definitely wasn't back to normal.

Then there's chicken pox, another virus, that can take adults ages to recover from, in some cases complications can occur such as lung infections and then there might be the damage/recovery associated with that.

I believe some people get complications from chicken pox that can affect the heart and so on.

So it's definitely not weird for people take weeks or months to fully recover after having a virus.

The difference being that when we talk about flu or chicken pox, people will often refer to the complications that may have occured after they caught that first.

With Covid-19 the damage is more often attributed specifically to the virus!

ShineOn7

From the main thread

Contrast that with the Irish experience... healthcare workers make up a third of all COVID positive cases in Ireland. Nurses make up a third of those – the largest single group of workers infected. As of May 30th, seven healthcare workers have died from the virus, 1,515 (19%) have recovered, and 4,823 are still ill (60%). 20% of cases have a currently unknown status.

That's insanely high and this side of it is being completely ignored by Irish media

ShineOn7

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1275092416912121857

owlbethere

ShineOn7 wrote: »

From the main thread






That's insanely high and this side of it is being completely ignored by Irish media

God, and people messing around with the virus as if its a little bit of a cold.

Away With The Fairies

They invited flights in from all over Europe that brought this here in the first place. While telling us that most of us will get it mild. Here's what they didn't tell us. Our numbers are good, flights will resume and bring this back into the country and back to square one without forced quarantine.

Why are they playing with our lives in this country?

https://www.chron.com/news/medical/article/What-they-don-t-tell-you-about-surviving-15356605.php?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR0JgzdLfJGfeZ4IEQwEjxuoZ3B3RYHndn1n0zHCmLaeMwyf7yZvJgGtQpM

Away With The Fairies

From the same link above, a 20 year old picture of their lungs, they needed a lung transplant.
pic.twitter.com/bwWvfdyIJt

Away With The Fairies

Reading the comments from the above link and someone woke up in sweats. I was waking up covered in sweat back in February. This is very unusual for me unless it's summer time. I also had a runny nose around the same time, which is also unusual for me.

I hope this was it for me but have no way of knowing.

owlbethere

Some people won't care until it hits them. They care more about buying cheap undies and socks in pennies than they do about doing what's right and keep life low key for now. So many people who want to rush back out to the way life was. They don't care about the virus. They only care about their own happiness. They think the virus is gone now and they think it's just a little cold so they want life back to the way it was. Its shallow, really.

ShineOn7

60% of infected healthcare workers still ill - INMO

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0623/1149034-ireland-coronavirus/

General Secretary Phil Ní Sheaghdha said that 88% of infected healthcare workers picked up the virus at work.

She said 60% of those infected are still ill.

This evening the Department of Health has said it disputes the figures, saying that 93% of healthcare have recovered from the virus.

A submission from the INMO to today's meeting of the committee said 4,823 staff are still ill, according to data from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre.

iguana

marilynrr wrote: »

With Covid-19 the damage is more often attributed specifically to the virus!

In mild cases that are taking forever to recover the most likely thing that is happening is that it's triggering post-viral conditions. I had a Covid like virus in March and in early April started suffering with post-viral Costochondritis, Esophagitis and Pleurisy in my right lung. All of these conditions cause chest pain and shortness of breath, so feel very, very similar to the original infection. Which give the impression that Covid itself is lasting forever. Or cause fear that there is long term lung damage. Some viruses are more likely to trigger these things than others. Glandular Fever, for example, can cause severe post-viral syndrome. Often triggered by a person starting exercising before their body has truly healed. Which is what happened with me. I got better, felt great, rushed back into being active and crashed.

It's not long-term damage. It's just my body really needing significant rest. It's boring and frustrating. And there were a couple of times that it was scary. I started 'relapsing' at the same time that Korea released information about people retesting positive and that caused a lot of speculation that this was a chronic illness, right as I was getting worse after being better. The biggest problem is getting this illness at a point when there is no real knowledge yet. If I had glandular fever, I'd have been told that I needed lots of rest and not to exercise for a few months and then ease myself back into it and I'd be fine. I suspect the same is true with Covid, but nobody had the hindsight to be able to tell me, and others like me, that. So we had to muddle through it with lots of trial and error, often making ourselves a bit worse along the way. It will be different for people infected in the future. (And then there will be a vaccine, so it will barely matter.)

Icantthinkof1

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that I had this back in late February.
I was put forward for a test in March by my GP but this was cancelled as I didn’t have a fever- but I think I did have a fever?
At that time I thought a fever was anything over 38c but a low grade fever is anything above 37.7c. My temp at the time was between 37.8-37.9c so if I had known that I would have probably been given the test.
I never had a cough but my husband and all our children at that time had a cough.
In fact my husband is still coughing now the cough has still not left him and it’s quite a bad one. He is a smoker though so perhaps it’s just a bad bout of ‘smokers cough’
Anyways back to the point about long recovery- if this was Covid then it has taken me a full 3 months to get back to some level of normal.
For the whole of March and most of April I was exhausted despite sleeping all night I was still unable to stay awake during the day and falling asleep on the couch nearly everyday during that time frame
I had the most awful aches in my chest like really bad constant muscle pain- no stabbing or sharp pains just a constant painful ache
Feeling cold and being wrapped in a blanket with the heating on- this wasn’t a constant chill it would be all of a sudden I would feel really cold, it would subside usually after an hour or two and it happened on and off over the 1st month
I had the most scary sensation of my lungs burning. I experienced this approx 1 month later when out of nowhere my back by my lungs would feel so hot to the touch and the burning feeling was by far one of the most distressing- thankfully I only experienced this approx. 3 times and it would last for around an hour each time. It was so scary that the first time it happened I literally jumped out of the chair and went over to my husband and started bawling crying like a child would- it was that terrifying; like someone had just flicked a lighter on inside my lungs
The tightness in my chest and shortness of breath was constant from Feb- start of June. Like there was a heavy object constantly sitting on my chest restricting me from getting a deep/ satisfying breath. I am asthmatic and this persisted despite being prescribed 3 courses of oral steroids over a 4 week period. My asthma flare ups would normally last for up to a 2 week period never did I have a flair up that lasted so long except once before when I was hospitalised with pneumonia
Finally and the symptoms that have remained with me still are; a sore throat, but not a scratchy feeling in my throat more of a burning feeling- I get this feeling prob once a week still and it stays for a couple of hours it’s not distressing just annoying
I also still have some headaches and random bouts of nausea but the frequency of these have definitely lessened a lot this month
I still have shortness of breath but this isn’t anything new as with an asthma flair up I would have this anyways along with a low exercise tolerance
I would have loved to have an antibody test to determine if this was Covid but I don’t think it would show up on an antibody test now as it has been over 4months?