22,698 people recovered in Ireland so far. But how many of them are 100% ok after?

stevek93

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that I had this back in late February.
I was put forward for a test in March but this was cancelled as I didn’t have a fever- but I think I did have a fever?
At that time I thought a fever was anything over 38c but a low grade fever is anything over 37.7-37.9c. My temp at the time was 37.8-37.9c so if I had known that I would have probably been given the test.
I never had a cough but my husband and all our children at that time had a cough.
In fact my husband is still coughing now the cough has still not left him and it’s quite a bad one. He is a smoker though so perhaps it’s just a bad bout of ‘smokers cough’
Anyways back to the point about long recovery- if this was Covid then it has taken me a full 3 months to get back to some level of normal.
For the whole of March and most of April I was exhausted despite sleeping all night I was still unable to stay awake during the day and falling asleep on the couch nearly everyday during that time frame
I had the most awful aches in my chest like really bad constant muscle pain- no stabbing or sharp pains just a constant painful ache
Feeling cold and being wrapped in a blanket with the heating on- this wasn’t a constant chill it would be all of a sudden I would feel really cold, it would subside usually after an hour or two and it happened on and off over the 1st month
I had the most scary sensation of my lungs burning. I experienced this approx 1 month later when out of nowhere my back by my lungs would feel so hot to the touch and the burning feeling was by far one of the most distressing- thankfully I only experienced this approx. 3 times and it would last for around an hour each time. It was so scary that the first time it happened I literally jumped out of the chair and went over to my husband and started bawling crying like a child would- it was that terrifying; like someone had just flicked a lighter on inside my lungs
The tightness in my chest was constant from Feb- start of June. Like there was a heavy object constantly sitting on my chest restricting me from getting a deep/ satisfying breath. I am asthmatic and this persisted despite being prescribed 3 courses of oral steroids over a 4 week period. My asthma flare ups would normally last for up to a 2 week period never did I have a flair up that lasted so long except once before when I was hospitalised with pneumonia
Finally and the symptoms that have remained with me still are; a sore throat, but not a scratchy feeling in my throat more of a burning feeling- I get this feeling prob once a week still- it’s not distressing just annoying
I also still have some headaches and random bouts of nausea but the frequency of these have definitely lessened a lot this month
I would have loved to have an antibody test to determine if this was Covid but wouldn’t think it would show up on an antibody test now as it has been over 4months?

I can relate to this, back in late February the doctor put me out of work for a respiratory illness, I was having these what the doctor called asthma attacks but I never had asthma in all my life so I disagreed. I was coughing and short of breath one night my other half called an ambulance it got that bad but when they arrived the only thing they could do is send me to the A&E and told me I would probably just be sitting in the waiting room most of the night so I didn't go. No one ever thought it was coronavirus and disagreed with me when I say maybe it might be.

Fast forward to now I have a horrible pain in the right of my chest for months now it comes and goes, cough is still there, sore throat won't go away and the longer time goes the more I notice how tried I am getting I wake up after 10 hours sleep have breakfast sit on the couch and fall asleep again, have dinner then again I fall asleep, I noticed because I am so tried all the time my productivity for work is very poor I often fall asleep at my desk for work.

I too want to get the antibody test and find out what in gods name is going on here, it feels like I have aged 50 years basically, I bought a house last year and any bit of work I try to do I just have to stop and go rest I am normally brusting with energy.

My work place in December had a girl in the office come back from Germany with a fighting cough she was crying in the bathroom one day with it, she then went out 3 weeks with pneumonia came back for a few weeks then left permanently. Come late January everyone was getting a cough into Febuary then early March it makes me wonder...

When I got sick in late February with the cough and sore throat etc, my other half was vomiting also during the time I got sick I had a little upset tummy but never vomiting..

Icantthinkof1

stevek93 wrote: »

Fast forward to now I have a horrible pain in the right of my chest for months now it comes and goes, cough is still there, sore throat won't go away and the longer time goes the more I notice how tried I am getting I wake up after 10 hours sleep have breakfast sit on the couch and fall asleep again, have dinner then again I fall asleep, I noticed because I am so tried all the time my productivity for work is very poor I often fall asleep at my desk for work.

I too want to get the antibody test and find out what in gods name is going on here, it feels like I have aged 50 years basically..

So sorry to read that you’re still badly affected; that sounds awful and debilitating for you.
Have you had any follow up with your GP around blood tests or follow up about the asthmatic symptoms you experienced as well as the ongoing pains in your chest? They might refer you for a CT scan?
I think they have post Covid clinics that your GP might be able to refer you onto for tests/ monitoring?

iguana

stevek93 wrote: »

I too want to get the antibody test and find out what in gods name is going on here, it feels like I have aged 50 years basically, I bought a house last year and any bit of work I try to do I just have to stop and go rest I am normally brusting with energy.

There are private clinics doing antibody tests in Ireland now, TMB for example. But while a positive test is probably accurate a negative may not be and accurate indicator about whether or not you had Covid for a range of reasons, quickly receding antibodies/more important T-Cell response/lack of sensitivity/etc. So it might be a waste of money at this point in time and better to wait for a more accurate test at a future date when more is known about how the disease works and what immune markers to look for.

stevek93

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

So sorry to read that you’re still badly affected; that sounds awful and debilitating for you.
Have you had any follow up with your GP around blood tests or follow up about the asthmatic symptoms you experienced as well as the ongoing pains in your chest? They might refer you for a CT scan?
I think they have post Covid clinics that your GP might be able to refer you onto for tests/ monitoring?

The doctor put me for a asthma test in February I have an appointment in August, but it has cleared up now so the test won't show anything I'd imagine.

What would a blood test or CT scan do? I have spoken to my GP about what problems I have now and she is convinced that I had the virus and I just have a long road of recovery mentioning that a lot of people are saying the same thing.

I hope to God I do get better, one thing I noticed is if I get poor sleep for a few nights I seem to go backwards in recovering the chest pain gets worse sore throat appears again cough comes back etc. I once drank alcohol about 1 month ago foolish of me and I awoke the next day with temperature of 39c that lasted for 5+ days. If I do to much physical work I also get symptoms again.

It appears I need to keep myself in top notch, get the right amount of sleep every night, eat properly don't anything to physical etc. Which is kinda annoying I am usually every day on my bike now I have been rarely on it when I do get on it now I struggle after 15 minutes usually I could go hours at a time without getting tired.

stevek93

iguana wrote: »

There are private clinics doing antibody tests in Ireland now, TMB for example. But while a positive test is probably accurate a negative may not be and accurate indicator about whether or not you had Covid for a range of reasons, quickly receding antibodies/more important T-Cell response/lack of sensitivity/etc. So it might be a waste of money at this point in time and better to wait for a more accurate test at a future date when more is known about how the disease works and what immune markers to look for.

Thanks, yes your right I had an appointment for antibody test but I cancelled due to the accuracy of the results. What I would be worried about it how long do these antibodies last, if I wait another few months for a reliable test and my antibodies go then I will never know.

iguana

stevek93 wrote: »

Thanks, yes your right I had an appointment for antibody test but I cancelled due to the accuracy of the results. What I would be worried about it how long do these antibodies last, if I wait another few months for a reliable test and my antibodies go then I will never know.

I used to feel like that too but recent findings have made me relax about that. There are now early studies showing that past Covid infections can leave long-term/permanent changes in the immune system. Changes to T-helper Cell CD4, and in Memory Cell B for example. If larger studies verify this, testing for these changes will follow. We’ll have a better idea about definitive testing in a few months and imo, it’s better to wait than get a wrong answer.

stevek93

iguana wrote: »

I used to feel like that too but recent findings have made me relax about that. There are now early studies showing that past Covid infections can leave long-term/permanent changes in the immune system. Changes to T-helper Cell CD4, and in Memory Cell B for example. If larger studies verify this, testing for these changes will follow. We’ll have a better idea about definitive testing in a few months and imo, it’s better to wait than get a wrong answer.

So does this mean you have a permanent imprint in your immune system and longterm or permanent antibodies?

chicken foot

It is not surprising that there are lasting effects of this. My daughter had whooping cough at 6 weeks old (thanks crazy anti-vaxxers!), I was told it would get worse before it got better (it did, we nearly lost her twice). She was hospitalised for two weeks mostly for public health as it is a notifiable disease. Anyway, we were told that it is called the "100 day cough" and I can vouch for that. She coughed dramatically for months after it, in fact, it was only when she was around two did she ease off on dramatics. Thankfully, no long term damage but it doesnt shock me that something so fatal (covid or whooping cough) would cause effects long after the virus is "gone"
.

iguana

stevek93 wrote: »

So does this mean you have a permanent imprint in your immune system and longterm or permanent antibodies?

If these studies prove true then, most probably. As far as I've seen it explained, you don't have active antibodies but your immune system retains the memory of them and will immediately create new ones if needed. There is even some suggestions of cross reactivity in the T-Cell response, which could provide protection to other coronaviruses. Lots more needs to be learned but there are hints of longterm immune outcomes being very positive. Both for people who have recovered and in terms of corona vaccine creation.

Blanco100

Know someone who had the virus back in March. They are having an operation tomorrow, doctors were made aware the patient previously had covid19 in March, and we were told categorically there is no need to be retested again as it would be impossible to have it.

Is this known for absolute certain that immunity lasts this long? Can it be taken as fact that one cannot be infected again in a period of 3 months later?

stevek93

iguana wrote: »

If these studies prove true then, most probably. As far as I've seen it explained, you don't have active antibodies but your immune system retains the memory of them and will immediately create new ones if needed. There is even some suggestions of cross reactivity in the T-Cell response, which could provide protection to other coronaviruses. Lots more needs to be learned but there are hints of longterm immune outcomes being very positive. Both for people who have recovered and in terms of corona vaccine creation.

I wonder if being exposed again will give symptoms so or much milder symptoms.

I have picked up something bug over the past week, I am debating whether to phone my GP. My temperature and blood oxygen levels are fine but I have a sore throat and body aches and an unpleasant taste in the mouth and very tried again other than that I'm fine.

Peregrinus

stevek93 wrote: »

I wonder if being exposed again will give symptoms so or much milder symptoms.

I have picked up something bug over the past week, I am debating whether to phone my GP. My temperature and blood oxygen levels are fine but I have a sore throat and body aches and an unpleasant taste in the mouth and very tried again other than that I'm fine.

(A) If in doubt, get tested. Why wouldn't you?

(B) Even if having had the infection already confers immunity, I think it's too soon to say how reliably it does so (e.g. an unlucky 5% may not be immune, and you could be one of them) or for how long or how thoroughly (i.e. completely immune or just a much milder dose). This isn't a simple binary whereby either everyone is completely immune for ever, or nobody has any immunity at all. The reality is going to lie somewhere between those two extremes.

Atlantic Dawn

I can see in the near future it being asked if you have tested positive for Covid 19 on life insurance questionaires.

JimmyVik

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

I’m one of the many who think there’s a chance I had the virus back in February. Obviously it may be totally coincidental, but I had symptoms of pneumonia. Not ever having had it before, I had no idea what it was and it was gone before I went for help (about 3 days of pneumonia symptoms). Anyway, that was 4 months ago and my lungs still are not right. I think it’s actually fairly normal for viral pneumonia to have an effect for months after. It has improved but lingering.

If you want to know for sure, you can get a test for antibodies in Dublin. Costs €85 and they give you the results in 3 days. Google it, or maybe someone here knows the names of the companies doing it.
I have a friend who thought they had it at the start, and the test at the time showed negative. They were very sick for about 2 months. After they felt better (he is 37 and he still cant run without being out of breath in seconds) they went for this test which was positive, so did did have it.

stevek93

Peregrinus wrote: »

(A) If in doubt, get tested. Why wouldn't you?

(B) Even if having had the infection already confers immunity, I think it's too soon to say how reliably it does so (e.g. an unlucky 5% may not be immune, and you could be one of them) or for how long or how thoroughly (i.e. completely immune or just a much milder dose). This isn't a simple binary whereby either everyone is completely immune for ever, or nobody has any immunity at all. The reality is going to lie somewhere between those two extremes.

Ill phone the GP so and mention my concerns.

Blanco100

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I can see in the near future it being asked if you have tested positive for Covid 19 on life insurance questionaires.

This is already happening

random_banter

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you want to know for sure, you can get a test for antibodies in Dublin. Costs €85 and they give you the results in 3 days. Google it, or maybe someone here knows the names of the companies doing it.
I have a friend who thought they had it at the start, and the test at the time showed negative. They were very sick for about 2 months. After they felt better (he is 37 and he still cant run without being out of breath in seconds) they went for this test which was positive, so did did have it.

Good that your friend got clarity on what happened to him. As an FYI, My GP warned me last week not to waste my money on any current antibody tests as the false negative rates are still quite high. She said wait a few more months until there's more reliable ones going.

stevek93

Blanco100 wrote: »

This is already happening

Really?

stevek93

random_banter wrote: »

Good that your friend got clarity on what happened to him. As an FYI, My GP warned me last week not to waste my money on any current antibody tests as the false negative rates are still quite high. She said wait a few more months until there's more reliable ones going.

Might explain why the clinic I rang to ask about antibody testing was very pushy to get me in the door and was defensive about my concerns about negative rates.

Peregrinus

The high rate of false negatives is an issue, certainly, but that doesn't mean that the test is useless. If you get a positive result, that is pretty reliable - you have had CV19 and you now have whatever degree of immunity that confers.

Plus, it should be pointed out, a variety of different antibody tests have been developed. The one that's easier to administer and gives quicker results is, sadly, the less accurate one as regards the number of false negatives. But, from a public health point of view, the disadvantage of a higher rate of false negatives may be more that outweighed by the ability to test far more people using the easier, cheaper, quicker test, so it may make sense for the public health service to provide that test.

mandrake04

PCR test itself is very accurate, however it relies on a quality sample and the quality of the collector (the person taking the sample) can definitely be questioned. Having 4 tests myself each time different experience some were both throat and nasopharyngeal, some were just nasopharyngeal also on one occasion I felt the collector didn’t push the nose swab right in to the back.

If done correctly the throat swab should make you gag and the nose swab should make you eyes water so much that takes a few minutes to recover. If your viral load is low and the sample isn’t taken properly then there won’t be much if any RNA that can be separated and amplified.


Antibody tests will show if your immune system has an antibody response to the virus, if you had very mild symptoms or asymptomatic it’s now understood that the antibodies drop off over time but those people who had more severe symptoms will continue to have a greater response. The assay itself has a range in counts for SARS-Cov-2 antibodies...if your count is very low it can be interpreted as background and cut off as negative. There’s no problem with the test ...the problem is the patient is not showing antibodies.

This is similar in run of the mill diseases like Hep-B, as a baby you have 3 dose vaccine over 6 months that gives protection for most people but some adults require a booster later in life as their response can drop off, this doesn’t mean the test is faulty it means the person has poor response.

Antibody test may not determine if someone has had Covid but it means they have little specific antibody response to Covid, we do not know wether they will or will not get it again. They might have T-Cell response or they might not ...but measuring specific T-cells is not that easy. If you suspect you had Covid and antibody tests says you haven’t then you need to precautions that you have never been exposed and accept it’s possible to get it again.

Since it’s an acute disease they will probably develop a vaccine but it will probably have to be either a very strong single dose or likely I suspect a multi dose vaccine.

Icantthinkof1

https://www.post-covid.org.uk/
This website provides support and stories from people recovering from Covid 19 (UK based)

Liamo57

I feel great after contracting it. My hole and throat are clear. Its like the carburretor in a car. Im like a new man.

ShineOn7

Liamo57 wrote: »

I feel great after contracting it. My hole and throat are clear. Its like the carburretor in a car. Im like a new man.

Icantthinkof1

Liamo57 wrote: »

I feel great after contracting it. My hole and throat are clear. Its like the carburretor in a car. Im like a new man.

Oh thank goodness! We can all rest easy tonight Liam knowing that your hole is clear :-)

ShineOn7

On today's episode of Covid Fear Porn


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-consultant-Patients-already-presenting-in-need-of-lung-transplants-after-surviving-Covid-2a3a2602-2c84-408f-a8ad-63a30ccc4b63-ds

Cork consultant: Patients already presenting in need of lung transplants after surviving Covid


A Cork respiratory consultant has said patients are already presenting in need of lung transplants as a result of permanent damage inflicted by Covid-19.

Dr Oisin O’Connell, a respiratory consultant at the Bon Secours in Cork, voiced concern about the long road ahead for patients suffering permanent damage from the virus.

"I was speaking to two of my lung transplant colleagues, one of the doctors and one of the surgeons, and they said they've already got people who had Covid-19 referred to them for lung transplantation," he said.

"The disease has left them with such permanent scarring they can no longer have a quality of life.

"These patients are persistently on high oxygen. They have already been treated but are left with this residual scarring.


"There is a misinterpretation among people that Covid causes a very bad flu-like illness that people get over. Unfortunately, that's not always the case."
The severity of side-effects are still unknown due to the recent introduction of the virus.

"It's now going to be a lot more complex figuring out what causes inflammation in the lungs," Dr O'Connell said.

"Normally, what we do is regular CT scans and if the inflammation is persistent, biopsies. We have to bear in mind that there are waiting lists for months and years in some centres to see a respiratory consultant with these new forms of post-Covid pneumonitis.

"The difficulty is there is not a long enough duration of knowledge to determine if there is going to be a consequence, but we know that one in 20 people who get over forms of clotting conditions in the lung go on to develop this one to three years later.


"With this in mind, there is a realistic possibility that in addition to a subset of patients developing pulmonary fibrosis after Covid, a subset of patients may develop pulmonary hypertension secondary to Covid — a type of high blood pressure affecting arteries in the lungs and heart.

"However, we don't have that data yet as Covid's only around since December.

"It's not going to be seen for a year or two whether some patients do get this, but we are certainly seeing patients that have been permanently left with advanced pulmonary fibrosis who are meeting the criteria for lung transplants already."

He pointed out the difficult challenges facing consultants adapting to a post-Covid world.

"We know for a fact that some people are ending up with permanent scarring of the lungs and they have been referred for lung transplantation.
"As a result, we have to completely refashion the way we assess patients to avoid them coming into hospital.

"The second way this is going to affect us is with diagnostic uncertainty.
"Your job as a doctor is to exclude the rare and serious possibilities.

"Whenever you see inflammation and scarring there is a possibility for a type of lymphoma or pulmonary lymphoma.

"The difficulty with that is if you assumed every lung is related to a post-Covid syndrome, every now and then, there is the risk of missing a serious condition.

"Ireland has become a very litigious country and I think we are all scared that there is going to be a new wave of misdiagnoses from a respiratory perspective because, (1) we don't have ready access to CT scans and (2) there will be a reduction in the number of pulmonary tests."

He spoke of patients with permanent Covid-19 damage who never tested positive for the disease.

"There is going to be a huge number of referrals.

"When a patient visits their GP and says I'm very breathless and tired it's very difficult for that GP to quantify if this is a mild or severe form of inflammation.


"I've seen patients who clearly had Covid-19 but never tested positive.


"They are coming in with really bad inflammation of the lungs and if you didn't have a CT scan you wouldn't have understood the need to treat this aggressively with medications like antibiotics, steroids and other blood-thinning medications we now know help a number of Covid-19 patients."

s1ippy

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-consultant-Patients-already-presenting-in-need-of-lung-transplants-after-surviving-Covid-2a3a2602-2c84-408f-a8ad-63a30ccc4b63-ds

I was coming here to post that too; not because it's fear porn (because I don't think that actually gets anyone off and it's used as an insult by people who are frightened themselves). Fear is a natural response to this situation - you're lashing out at what you perceive as the people who are making you afraid, i.e. the people who are sharing information to try and gain a better understanding of this new virus.

I came to post it because he said:

- patients had permanent Covid-19 damage who never tested positive for the disease

- they've already got people who had Covid-19 referred to them for lung transplantation

- the disease has left them with such permanent scarring they can no longer have a quality of life

And this seems relevant to the thread topic.

Thank you to the poster who shared the UK experiences, very informative stuff there which might shed some light on the avenues of recovery for those suffering from this horrible affliction.

I mentioned before that I'm part of a #slack group called Body Politic which has threads where people give their account of the illness. It's getting better and more organised every day and there are very valuable insights being posted by individuals from every type of background. If anyone wants to be invited they can PM me their email with a bit of info on their interest (you just have to share why you want to be part of the group) and I can invite them.

ShineOn7

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection

For Julie Helms, it started with a handful of patients admitted to her intensive care unit at Strasbourg University Hospital in northeast France in early March 2020. Within days, every single patient in the ICU had Covid-19 – and it was not just their breathing difficulties that alarmed her.

“They were extremely agitated, and many had neurological problems – mainly confusion and delirium,” she says. “We are used to having some patients in the ICU who are agitated and require sedation, but this was completely abnormal. It has been very scary, especially because many of the people we treated were very young – many in their 30s and 40s, even an 18-year-old.”

I find this part is very questionable

Estimates of exact prevalence vary, but it seems that roughly 50% of patients diagnosed with Sars-CoV-2 – the virus responsible for causing the illness Covid-19 – have experienced neurological problems.

owlbethere

ShineOn7 wrote: »

On today's episode of Covid Fear Porn


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-consultant-Patients-already-presenting-in-need-of-lung-transplants-after-surviving-Covid-2a3a2602-2c84-408f-a8ad-63a30ccc4b63-ds

Can you please tell us how you consider this as fear porn? Are you part of the brigade where you want to suppress information about the virus and see disease spread across the Irish population and beyond?

Bannasidhe

Cousin of mine contracted the virus at work - she's a HCW- in a community care hospital in Cork before the lockdown.

After 3 weeks of feeling pretty ill with pounding headaches and breathing difficulties she tested negative, she went back to work a month after initially testing positive. She didn't feel 100% but they were short staffed.
Last week she fainted at work. After tests it was discovered she has significant scarring on her lungs. She has never smoked so that isn't a factor.
She is now off work again and awaiting further tests. She may never again be able to do the physically demanding work of caring for elderly people who are incapacitated.