Madeleine McCann

splinter65

Montageofhell wrote: »

Yes, that's very possible. For this abduction to take place, a lot of luck was involved, that's for sure.

Not really, no, I wouldn’t agree with that at all at all

Montageofhell

flasher0030 wrote: »

It's not luck or opportunism. He had planned it - maybe not with a hotel insider. I don't know. But you don't just rock up into an apartment,see a child and decide "Ooh, I'll take a bit of that for myself". And get away with it for 13 years. He would need to make sure that no DNA is left - hair, skin in the event of a child scraping. He'd have to have some idea of the parents movements to take a chance in swiping one of their children. He's need to make sure no security cameras in the area - on the building or in the street.

I think it was you I asked before, how did you know CB was a burglar?

To not leave any evidence or get caught for 13 years involves luck, no doubt about it. We don't know if he even entered the apartment, Madeleine could have left!

Montageofhell

splinter65 wrote: »

Not really, no, I wouldn’t agree with that at all at all

For no one to spot the abduction, no evidence left, no one seeing him acting suspicious, no one to report him for 13 years? Lots of luck involved.

splinter65

Montageofhell wrote: »

For no one to spot the abduction, no evidence left, no one seeing him acting suspicious, no one to report him for 13 years? Lots of luck involved.

No I don’t agree at all. No luck was involved. Not one bit. Absolutely sure of that. 100% sure.

Montageofhell

splinter65 wrote: »

No I don’t agree at all. No luck was involved. Not one bit. Absolutely sure of that. 100% sure.

Ok, were you there or something?

splinter65

Montageofhell wrote: »

Ok, were you there or something?

No not at all. I just don’t agree that there was any luck involved.

Montageofhell

splinter65 wrote: »

No not at all. I just don’t agree that there was any luck involved.

For no one to spot the abduction, no evidence left, no one seeing him acting suspicious, no one to report him for 13 years?

splinter65

Have the McCanns made any further public comment since the letter from the German prosecutor I wonder?

Banana Republic.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8536519/amp/Pictured-Girlfriend-accomplice-McCann-suspect-seen-time-unmasked.html

A very good read on CB and his alleged accomplice in at least one high stakes burglary Nicole Fehlinger.

Montageofhell

Banana Republic. wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8536519/amp/Pictured-Girlfriend-accomplice-McCann-suspect-seen-time-unmasked.html

A very good read on CB and his alleged accomplice in at least one high stakes burglary Nicole Fehlinger.

Can't read it with ad blocker and it's the daily mail, can you give a summary?

JJayoo

Any information on the 'underground cellar' found underneath the allotment?

Anything to it? Or just the media looking for a headline

Banana Republic.

Montageofhell wrote: »

Can't read it with ad blocker and it's the daily mail, can you give a summary?

There ya go

Banana Republic.

JJayoo wrote: »

Any information on the 'underground cellar' found underneath the allotment?

Anything to it? Or just the media looking for a headline

Nothing till they examine the evidence collected. Probably be a week or more until we hear anything I say

Montageofhell

JJayoo wrote: »

Any information on the 'underground cellar' found underneath the allotment?

Anything to it? Or just the media looking for a headline

It's really hard to know what's going on. There was reports of searching in wells in Portugal a few weeks ago. Does anyone remember the search in some place in Dublin with claims that it had to do with Trevor Deely? Nothing ever came from that.

It could be the same here. Like you allude to, the media look for headlines. Sure we had a poster here claiming as fact that the police said they knew of a hotel worker who had informed CB of the apartment being poorly monitored. All the major news agencies were reporting on it. Turns out it was a Portuguese newspaper who said it and all the main news agencies just ran the story.

Montageofhell

Banana Republic. wrote: »

There ya go

Nothing new there in that.

buttercups88

JJayoo wrote: »

Any information on the 'underground cellar' found underneath the allotment?

Anything to it? Or just the media looking for a headline

There was one anyway. Nothing on what they found in it.

He also had another allotment in Braunsweig where he built a celler which the current owner is expecting to have it searched soon

https://mol.im/a/8575193

Spanish Eyes

Wonder why the German police are convinced the girl is dead. Anyone know, do they know for sure? Something is afoot, but no one really knows what it is.

Does anyone.

buttercups88

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Wonder why the German police are convinced the girl is dead. Anyone know, do they know for sure? Something is afoot, but no one really knows what it is.

Does anyone.

They said thy had concrete evidence she was dead.

They also said they uncovered hard drives buried with his dead dog at his old property thst had 8000 images of child porn.

We also know he filmed the rape and torture of the American woman.

So I think its easy to join dots

Carfacemandog

Montageofhell wrote: »

For no one to spot the abduction, no evidence left, no one seeing him acting suspicious, no one to report him for 13 years?

If the woman noted above was there too, it would be very hard to pick up on so long as they kept their cool. Just another couple taking their sleepy child home (or to their hotel) to go to bed - I'm guessing here that they probably drugged her before leaving. Hop on into the car all calm as if nothing is happening and then just drive immediately to wherever he/they took her with basically zero stops.

According to google maps you can make it from p
Praia de Luz to Bavaria in 26 hours, though it's much much more likely she was dropped off somewhere a good bit before then. They could have been in Biarritz on the French/Spanish border in under 12 hours, so about 9am the next morning.

Montageofhell

Carfacemandog wrote: »

If the woman noted above was there too, it would be very hard to pick up on so long as they kept their cool. Just another couple taking their sleepy child home (or to their hotel) to go to bed - I'm guessing here that they probably drugged her before leaving. Hop on into the car all calm as if nothing is happening and then just drive immediately to wherever he/they took her with basically zero stops.

According to google maps you can make it from p
Praia de Luz to Bavaria in 26 hours, though it's much much more likely she was dropped off somewhere a good bit before then. They could have been in Biarritz on the French/Spanish border in under 12 hours, so about 9am the next morning.

There was all sorts of sightings and reports after Madeleine went missing. None of these two. Also, it takes luck for them to go into an apartment and not be spotted by people who knew it wasn't their apartment.

happyoutscan

Montageofhell wrote: »

There was all sorts of sightings and reports after Madeleine went missing. None of these two. Also, it takes luck for them to go into an apartment and not be spotted by people who knew it wasn't their apartment.

Not in Luz, it's more of a ghost town than a bustling tourist town, especially that time of evening in May.

I've been outside that apartment 50 times or more (usually early morning or late evening).

Day Lewin

It seems this fellow CB had a habit of digging out cellars under the shed of an Allotment.
You'd have to wonder why.
According to neighbours in both places he never grew anything.
A dungeon?

buttercups88

Day Lewin wrote: »

It seems this fellow CB had a habit of digging out cellars under the shed of an Allotment.
You'd have to wonder why.
According to neighbours in both places he never grew anything.
A dungeon?

Yes definitely a lot of red flags with this guy

Montageofhell

happyoutscan wrote: »

Not in Luz, it's more of a ghost town than a bustling tourist town, especially that time of evening in May.

I've been outside that apartment 50 times or more (usually early morning or late evening).

So then they'd easily be spotted? If someone was hanging around a lot, they'd be noticed?

flasher0030

Montageofhell wrote: »

I think it was you I asked before, how did you know CB was a burglar?

To not leave any evidence or get caught for 13 years involves luck, no doubt about it. We don't know if he even entered the apartment, Madeleine could have left!

Google his name and "thief" and see what you get. I have no idea why you would even question that. It just shows that you are not up to speed on the case. One example:-

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/07/30/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner/

German sex offender Brueckner is serving time in prison for drug offences and the rape of an American woman in Portugal.

He is the primary suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, with German officials last month revealing they believed she is dead.

Brueckner is a prolific burglar, rapist and has been convicted for past offences against young girls.

Leg End Reject

I hope they find Madeleine's body so her family can grieve properly and lay her to rest.

It's tragic that her disappearance has turned into a media circus. Her parents and siblings are living in the shadow of this long enough, they won't have closure until she's found.

Banana Republic.

flasher0030 wrote: »

Google his name and "thief" and see what you get. I have no idea why you would even question that. It just shows that you are not up to speed on the case. One example:-

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/07/30/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner/

German sex offender Brueckner is serving time in prison for drug offences and the rape of an American woman in Portugal.

He is the primary suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, with German officials last month revealing they believed she is dead.

Brueckner is a prolific burglar, rapist and has been convicted for past offences against young girls.

Nailed it.

happyoutscan

Montageofhell wrote: »

So then they'd easily be spotted? If someone was hanging around a lot, they'd be noticed?

If someone was just standing around, they would definitely stick out, without a doubt. But would there be anyone to see them?

Luz is populated with locals and ex-pats who rise early and go to bed early (from what I've seen being there in October and May on a few occasions). Tourists stay at the Estrella da Luz, Baia da Luz or Ocean Club so very little foot traffic on da Silva.

Very little happens at night, so you could easily just stroll back and forth along Agostinho da Silva and you wouldn't arouse anyone's suspicions as there would be no one to see you.

This street is at the back of the Ocean Club and most of the resorts balcony's on the opposite south side, so I'm going to assume (possibly incorrectly) that there wouldn't be too many sitting out that side. You could literally stroll back and over all night and no one would notice.

Any road traffic traveling to the Baptista market would be turning down either side of the Ocean complex.

I've never even seen a taxi at the taxi rank in Luz, that's how quiet the place is. If you want a taxi, you order one from Lagos.

OneEightSeven

buttercups88 wrote: »

They said thy had concrete evidence she was dead.

They also said they uncovered hard drives buried with his dead dog at his old property thst had 8000 images of child porn.

We also know he filmed the rape and torture of the American woman.

So I think its easy to join dots

Are they ever going to produce this concrete evidence?

Montageofhell

flasher0030 wrote: »

Google his name and "thief" and see what you get. I have no idea why you would even question that. It just shows that you are not up to speed on the case. One example:-

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/07/30/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner/

German sex offender Brueckner is serving time in prison for drug offences and the rape of an American woman in Portugal.

He is the primary suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, with German officials last month revealing they believed she is dead.

Brueckner is a prolific burglar, rapist and has been convicted for past offences against young girls.

You missed my point completely. It sailed right over your head. I asked you that question because you said this:

flasher0030 wrote: »

You have to bear in mind this guy was an extremely good burgler.

If he was an extremely good burglar, you would never have heard of him. He would never have been caught. That you know of him, he's spent lots of time in prison and has been caught numerous times committing crimes shows that he's not as good as you make out.

TheQuietBeatle

Twitter users reporting child's play bucket one of the items taken away for examination. Obviously not reliable source but thought worth mentioning.

irishproduce

Banana Republic. wrote: »

Would love to see a picture it an interview with that woman, was the girl well dressed, looking happy? does she know the Madeline case herself (As in the girl thought to be Madeline) Would love her to be alive somewhere if she has a normal life but didn’t know who she actually is, stranger things have definitely happened.

Not attacking your post but just to use it for the quote, would you not think a 16 year old girl would look in the mirror and think Jesus, I've the exact same eyes as that girl that disappeared 13 years ago. Would she not start to question her own child hood out of curiosity.
If this was a non reported case that no one knew about or heard of then it could be possible but to think a 16 year old girl would be oblivious to both this case, and the fact she could be that girl, is fantasy I'm afraid.
Ever her friends would be pulling her chain slagging "you're Madeleine"

Day Lewin

TheQuietBeatle wrote: »

Twitter users reporting child's play bucket one of the items taken away for examination. Obviously not reliable source but thought worth mentioning.

In fairness, a plastic bucket is not an unusual thing to find on an allotment.

Montageofhell

Montageofhell wrote: »

Ok, were you there or something?

Why do you get sarky when someone has a different theory to you?

WAW

Just re coloboma, the eye defect. I work with two people who have it. I'm not sure how common it is. I have a recollection of 1 in 100,000 so not common but not confined to extreme rarity.

flasher0030

Montageofhell wrote: »

You missed my point completely. It sailed right over your head. I asked you that question because you said this:



If he was an extremely good burglar, you would never have heard of him. He would never have been caught. That you know of him, he's spent lots of time in prison and has been caught numerous times committing crimes shows that he's not as good as you make out.

Man, you have a stubborn streak. The point is you reckon lots of luck was involved. I'm saying it wasn't down to luck. CB would have planned this as meticulously as possible. He may not be Ronny Biggs, but he had enough "tricks of the trade" from seriel thieving to pull it off. i.e. scoping places to see ideal targets, not leaving DNA etc. Others here have made the same point to you. Maybe, open up and take it on board.

He is in jail for drug offences, and has the issue of the rape of the woman. I had a look back at an article about his criminal past, and other than getting caught stealing diesel, doesn't refer to jail time for thieving.
I was reading a quote from a former friend of his which said that he was a good thief. With all due respect to your speculating, I would take that on board, and make my own conclusion that he didn't just walk in off the street on a whim when one of the McCanns left the apartment after one of their checks on the kids.

The Unbearables

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Are they ever going to produce this concrete evidence?

Personally i don't think they've anything. People are just hoping the rather than being realistic.

MonsterCookie

The Unbearables wrote: »

Personally i don't think they've anything. People are just hoping the rather than being realistic.

So you think the German prosecutor is spoofing?

I just think they are building their case Against CB and it will take time. Of course like other potential leads in this story, it may come to nothing but to write it off at this stage seems premature considering how much work is likely to be involved.

They don’t owe us an update every few days. They will only release information when it suits them eg in an appeal for more info.

splinter65

The Unbearables wrote: »

Personally i don't think they've anything. People are just hoping the rather than being realistic.

Thinking that they don’t have anything is fine and as you say veering towards being realistic.
It’s the people who are actually HOPING that they don’t have anything because it would ruin their agenda that’s creepy disgusting and very disturbing.

Banana Republic.

irishproduce wrote: »

Not attacking your post but just to use it for the quote, would you not think a 16 year old girl would look in the mirror and think Jesus, I've the exact same eyes as that girl that disappeared 13 years ago. Would she not start to question her own child hood out of curiosity.
If this was a non reported case that no one knew about or heard of then it could be possible but to think a 16 year old girl would be oblivious to both this case, and the fact she could be that girl, is fantasy I'm afraid.
Ever her friends would be pulling her chain slagging "you're Madeleine"

Valid points indeed.
People live in far different worlds then girls slagging each other, you just don’t know would be my thinking, percentage wise it’s very low, is it impossible no so worth saying, all avenues are open in this case. 13 years by of brain washing could change someone’s brain no doubt. It’s mostly me hoping she’s alive and well.

Montageofhell

Montageofhell wrote: »

Ok, were you there or something?

I personally think that particular sarcastic response should carry a thread ban or at the very least a warning.

No-one here was there, everyone is speculating based on what they have read and what they would do in certain circumstances.

Quantum Erasure

But that poster is certain of what happened, there was absolutely no luck involved, at all

Day Lewin

I ain't never burgled an apartment, or tried to kidnap a sleeping child out of it.

But I can very easily imagine BAD luck - the residents return, the sleeping children wake and screech, the doors are locked, I spill something and leave footprints, I trip in the dark and leave blood from a grazed knee. Or they have a dog! Or a million other things...
of course there was luck involved.

The perpetrator may have acted on impulse - we have no way of knowing. But luck was certainly with him, to have got away with it.

flasher0030

Day Lewin wrote: »

I ain't never burgled an apartment, or tried to kidnap a sleeping child out of it.

But I can very easily imagine BAD luck - the residents return, the sleeping children wake and screech, the doors are locked, I spill something and leave footprints, I trip in the dark and leave blood from a grazed knee. Or they have a dog! Or a million other things...
of course there was luck involved.

The perpetrator may have acted on impulse - we have no way of knowing. But luck was certainly with him, to have got away with it.

That's not the point. The poster was mocking people who said that he may have staked out the area in preparation for carrying out a criminal activity. Mockingly suggesting that maybe be was hiding around in the bushes. Also suggested that he just wandered into that particular apartment without any prior surveillance and nicked a child, and was very lucky to get away with it.

I'm saying that it wasn't due to good luck. That he had planned precisely what would happen. He was a serial thief so would have that frame of mind i.e. surveying opportunities. He could have run into patches of misfortune where something he had planned might go wrong. But it's not just random good luck that he got away with it (Until now anyway).

flasher0030

Day Lewin wrote: »

I ain't never burgled an apartment, or tried to kidnap a sleeping child out of it.

But I can very easily imagine BAD luck - the residents return, the sleeping children wake and screech, the doors are locked, I spill something and leave footprints, I trip in the dark and leave blood from a grazed knee. Or they have a dog! Or a million other things...
of course there was luck involved.

The perpetrator may have acted on impulse - we have no way of knowing. But luck was certainly with him, to have got away with it.

That's the whole point. If you leave all those elements to chance, then there's obviously a good chance he'd be caught. That's why it wasn't just a random target - an impulse burglery. He has surveyed this. Spotted what was happening. Knew the door wasn't locked,focused enough not to spill anything, or leave blood,had proper lighting gear to not trip in the dark and definately knew they hadn't a dog. He may even have planned for a sedative to make sure child doesn't wake.

chooseusername

Day Lewin wrote: »

I ain't never burgled an apartment, or tried to kidnap a sleeping child out of it.

But I can very easily imagine BAD luck - the residents return, the sleeping children wake and screech, the doors are locked, I spill something and leave footprints, I trip in the dark and leave blood from a grazed knee. Or they have a dog! Or a million other things...
of course there was luck involved.

The perpetrator may have acted on impulse - we have no way of knowing. But luck was certainly with him, to have got away with it.

You make your own luck,

yourdeadwright

flasher0030 wrote: »

That's the whole point. If you leave all those elements to chance, then there's obviously a good chance he'd be caught. That's why it wasn't just a random target - an impulse burglery. He has surveyed this. Spotted what was happening. Knew the door wasn't locked,focused enough not to spill anything, or leave blood,had proper lighting gear to not trip in the dark and definately knew they hadn't a dog. He may even have planned for a sedative to make sure child doesn't wake.

All that is believable, but then if someone goes to all these lengths why would he chose a child that is in a room with 2 other children?

Basically all the effort and stalking gaining knowledge and the whole operation stíl lwould could down to the chance of one of the twins waking and screaming or not?

Just doesn't fit, what the is point of all the preparation if the acutal taking of her would come down to chance in the end,

To me its always been an oportunist kidnapping

Also let's not forget all the times he's been caught doing stupid stuff he doesn't seem that intelligent,
If he did plan it to military precision there no way he just done it once got away with it and stopped which is scary

happyoutscan

yourdeadwright wrote: »

All that is believable, but then if someone goes to all these lengths why would he chose a child that is in a room with 2 other children?

Basically all the effort and stalking gaining knowledge and the whole operation stíl lwould could down to the chance of one of the twins waking and screaming or not?

Just doesn't fit, what the is point of all the preparation if the acutal taking of her would come down to chance in the end,

To me its always been an oportunist kidnapping

Also let's not forget all the times he's been caught doing stupid stuff he doesn't seem that intelligent,
If he did plan it to military precision there no way he just done it once got away with it and stopped which is scary

He's hardly going into the room banging a drum. Why should the kids wake? Do yours wake everytime you go into their room?

TheW1zard

happyoutscan wrote: »

He's hardly going into the room banging a drum. Why should the kids wake? Do yours wake everytime you go into their room?

Do we all think he went in through the shutters?

happyoutscan

TheW1zard wrote: »

Do we all think he went in through the shutters?

I hope not, the door was open.