Madeleine McCann

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361379#Comment_119361379

Fcuked if I'd ever be apologising to the McCanns. They fcuked off and left their children alone while they socialised. Not good enough by a long shot.

Jequ0n

Shock and horror at the revelation that the Polish Miss Piggy is not Madeleine.

I feel for her and for the medium/ private investigator now that the journey is over and the very temporary cash cow can be returned to her parents.

Lentil Soup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968375#Comment_118968375

The dogs had to be continually called back to the car being tested in a car park. The handler was leading them to the relevant car

Edit found it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF4JTLeOWA&t=13s

Handler knew which car it was. He passed by the others when the dogs did but kept calling them to the McCann car

nc6000

The dog "evidence" around the car was nonsense, the trainer obviously knew which car was theirs and made sure the dog signalled after checking it.

Musicrules

Why would the trainer do that? Does the video not show the dog being called back to every car but started picking up something near the McCann's car so the trainer wanted a closer inspection?

Quantum Erasure

http://news.sky.com/story/police-investigating-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-to-search-reservoir-in-portugal-sky-news-understands-12886889

Police investigating Madeleine McCann disappearance to search reservoir about 30 miles from resort where she went missing

The investigation of the site reportedly comes at the request of German police, who announced in June 2020 that they believed Madeleine was dead and that suspect Christian B was likely responsible.

The convicted child abuser and drug dealer used to visit the reservoir, it is claimed.

...The waterway was previously searched in 2008 after Portuguese lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia paid for specialist divers to check the site

nc6000

I wonder why they are checking it again?

monkeybutter

Very strange how this case has been handled, how much has it all cost and it's been years since any good outcome could have been hoped for

Strumms

She disappeared over 16 years ago…the reservoir has been searched before

so a body under water for around that time or similar, if it was missed…. From my brief research it will have fully decomposed long ago and even bone will have started to decompose and break apart too. In addition it is a seriously big reservoir so bone particles if there, will be mixed with sand and silt and rock and vegetation and could have been entirely buried or washed out of the dam….

there is looking for a needle in a haystack and then this. Bone is porous….having lost calcium and phosphate it absorbs liquid which will damage it further…. If her body has been there all that time… it will be in tiny pieces…apparently you could crush it with your hand….

so I think ok, the parents want answers, but you are not getting your daughter back alive or even anything approaching a body or intact skeleton to bury….that probably sounds harsh but I don’t get pinning their hopes and aspirations on these wild goose chases….if she is there, she’s in fragments, pieces… washed along the bed of the reservoir… so it’s a strange one.

the likelihood if she isn’t found as is the probable outcome… it’s just going to be onto the next theory….next hunch, fragment of evidence, grain of hearsay…you can’t blame the McCanns in one way but you may need to say to them after this….. “ look unless cold, hard, compelling evidence comes to light, we are not in a position of doing anything….” Millions have been spent looking for her, and there obviously has to be a cutoff that can only be overridden by cold, hard, compelling evidence as opposed to hunches…. Id love to be wrong, but… ill be absolutely amazed if she’s found, at the reservoir or actually ever….

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456648#Comment_120456648

That video is painful to watch. What's going on is very obvious.

These same dogs were used several times in subsequent cases and indicated finding stuff. As a consequence of one of those indications at Haut de la Garenne children’s home on the island of Jersey, roughly £20 million was spent investigating the barks and yet nothing was found other than irrelevant archaeological bits and pieces.

None of the dogs indications since they went private and left the police force, including their use in the MM disappearance, were ever corroberated by the discovery of relevant forensic evidence. Their track record is a perfect zero.

After the dogs were absolutely sure the car was filled with the evidence of death and tragedy, they took it apart and found nothing.

The dogs indicating something is not evidence.

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628789#Comment_120628789

Well I presume they might have some new information. Otherwise, it seems a bit odd if they already searched there [edit: seems it was earlier searched by a private detective company, not the police]

Finding the body would help to corroborate whatever story they are looking into, with the hope of solving this.

Of course it's too little and way too late but they have duty to investigate. Hopefully it's more than just a hunch but who knows really...

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628789#Comment_120628789

If they find a body and it can be identified it's at least certainty to the parents.

I understand the whole new search has been started by German authorities, as they have a suspect in jail in Germany who was in the area at the time and had a certain history.

However I don't think that it's legally possible to connect that German guy to the crime beyond reasonable doubt. They already searched everything back then, even the house and everything around it where he stayed in Portugal and didn't come up with anything.

I would also suspect that if the German guy did it, he must have observed and checked out the area quite well. After all the table where the McCanns were eating and the room the children were sleeping in was only 50 meters away.

I would be inclined to think that whoever did this, was regularly visiting the premises and more than familiar with everything, like layout of rooms, and how to break in?

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628863#Comment_120628863

Bit harsh there mate. Lots of people care.

tinytobe

I don't think it's a break in having gone wrong. Suppose the children or one of them, Madeleine, would have seen the burglar, she would have been way to young for her statement to be admitted in a court of law. So, I tend to rule out that Madeleine would have interrupted and surprised the burglar.

I would still tend to think the crime was sexual in nature and later on she was killed and buried and hidden somewhere by someone who had a car, was familiar with Portugal and certain to pick a place where she would never ever be found.

If she was trafficked and adopted DNA evidence would have been able to prove that, plus have left tracks and traces to be investigated to whomever gave her up for adoption. So I would rule that one out as well.

I think the renewed search around that reservoir is just to clear the German authorities' conscience as well as rule one further option out, or at best if they find something offer some certainty to the parents.

They would have to find the German's DNA on the decomposed body to make the link, however after so many years, I'd suggest that's highly unlikely.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628863#Comment_120628863

You cared enough to post in the thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630480#Comment_120630480

Narcissists don’t care, including the one responsible for Madeleine’s death 🥲 Best ignored, you won’t change them.

If they find remains it would be a blessing to the family in that they would have a grave to visit, a full funeral to celebrate Madeleine’s short life, a final resting place place for her siblings to remember her in their later years. To have the killer convicted would be a class of victory though it would never bring an explanation of her final moments which must haunt their thoughts. If there was evidence of a very swift death it might provide a measure of comfort.

WheelieKing

Hope it's her and they get peace at last but by christ the amount of time and energy that the media have spent on this one missing child case when hundreds of children go missing every year in Europe is frankly bonkers. I do feel for those children's parents who are in equal pain but see their plight ignored.

tinytobe

Either the Germans really have a credible lead, other than the suspect stating the dam and the reservoir was a nice area, or it's really just about clearing conscience.

In the end, such a police operation also doesn't come cheap, thus the credible lead better be good.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630480#Comment_120630480

It’s 16 years of the same old story. Whenever they search somewhere or arrest a person of interest the media get themselves into a frenzy, and in the end nothing is ever found.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630834#Comment_120630834

You could try not clicking into threads of stuff you don't want to read about.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630872#Comment_120630872

It’s in my bookmarks in case something finally happens. The latest development was just disappointingly repetitive

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630896#Comment_120630896

So you do care.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630904#Comment_120630904

Yes the story with the crazy polish woman who claimed to be Madeleine was worth it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630896#Comment_120630896

2 of your last posts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361520#Comment_119361520

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628863#Comment_120628863

It’s in my bookmarks in case something finally happens

🤷‍♂️ 🤣

Pauliedragon

One of the reports I saw says the dam they are searching is in an area with a bad drought so it has low water levels. Maybe that makes it easier to search?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630971#Comment_120630971

Could well be.

Although as has been pointed out, after 16 years theres not likely to be much left to find.

tibruit

It seems more and more likely that they have effectively nothing on Bruekner and all the blather from the Germans about him was just that...blather.

Anyone who is familiar with this area will know exactly the right place to make a body disappear, the cliffs around Sagres. It’s popular with fishers, walkers and sightsee-ers. There’s a car park right against a wall over which the cliffs plunge deep to the very south-west top of Europe, and area of thundering waves and swift currents. Though it is popular, he could have gone up at 3am and tipped her into the sea, never to be seen again.

This is the exact point I’m thinking of.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628863#Comment_120628863

Plenty of people, you know, their parents, extended family and whatnot.

But sure if Jequ0n doesn’t care anymore no one else should.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631025#Comment_120631025

I have similar thoughts. The only reason I could think of using the reservoir or the area around the dam is that Brueckner knew it well. However he must have been so smart that water levels do change in reservoirs and hiding a body there is probably not the best choice.

The cliffs around Sagres are probably the best choice, especially at night. They even have a caravan park and incidentally also a "last Bratwurst before America" place. Any German familiar with the area would have known..... The question is only was he familiar with the currents, or the possibility of the body washing up on some shore? Maybe he tied weights to the body? We all don't know.

Goldengirl

I would be surprised that German police would be active in this if they didn't have more to go on.

But maybe as Bruekhner's the prime suspect they have to be there ?

Such a sad lonely place if this is her final resting place . Hope they find something at this stage.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632443#Comment_120632443

It seems the first of your statements. How they've gotten that information is beyond me.

Bruckner would hardly have bragged about the location of the crime. The police also can't turn every stone upside down in the whole of Portugal, so they must have some information on the whereabouts, and possibly what kind of links they are looking for to connect suspect to the crime and maybe also find a body. Even the land around the reservoir seems vast.

Also the water level of the reservoir seems to be lower than usual? How low was it at the time of the crime? They seem to concentrate their search so far on land and don't seem to have any divers there as well.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632558#Comment_120632558

It may be that there has been more information from the people that tipped Correia off in 2008 .

The rest is as much your guess as mine .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632443#Comment_120632443

The fact that this point was never spoken of as a possibility through the years puzzles me greatly. It’s the most obvious place to start considering. I’m sure the police must have entertained this possibility and have been looking along the coastline, but too often incompetence trumps common sense.

There is the possibility that he wanted to hide her poor body for further defilement. Without going into details it’s possible he had added an additional fetish. And maybe he photographed “momentos”

danfrancisco83

I hope her remains are found now. All her family can finally then get some closure. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632579#Comment_120632579

I think we all don't know an awful lot about the case.

I've always wondered why it took them so long to consider Bueckner as a suspect? He's had a history of sexual offences and was in the area at the time of the crime.

I am also guessing that they are acting on some kind of tip off because the search is concentrated on certain places near the reservoir. I also don't know how long DNA evidence would last in these circumstances, but even if they find a body, matching killer to crime scene to victim won't be easy.

Just stating that Bueckner was in Portugal at the time of the crime won't be enough for a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.

It would have been easier to do something different, like checking Bueckner's car for Maddie's DNA. But I presume that's been done many times before.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632655#Comment_120632655

Any may anyone who persecuted them hang their heads in shame.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632642#Comment_120632642

Oh no , very probably but so hard to think about it .

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632690#Comment_120632690

Depends on what. I think the McCanns were negligent, to say the least. The Tapas place was a bit away from their place where the children were, not in direct sight. That was their main mistake. It's not even that one of the parents could be seated to have a straight view to the place to see if somebody was coming and going. One should never have let the children alone and unsupervised. The least thing they could have done is hired some kind of accredited baby sitters. Some hotels do actually offer that as well.

And legally, ( neither in Portugal nor in the UK ) I don't think the law is in the McCann's favor leaving their children alone, as tragic as the loss is.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633089#Comment_120633089

While I agree with you that they made a bad mistake, I think the price they have paid is way above what anybody could want for anybody ..its hell really .

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633166#Comment_120633166

It is indeed but I was setting all sorts of emotional issues aside. It won't help the case.

But even back then technology was around to monitor babies and infants remotely. They could have considered that as well, and would have had some kind of warning or idea what was going on and in the best case a recording. Or would have heard something, as I don't think that this was some low level and loud mouthed British drinking session.

Also both parents were doctors, people with education. I mean, they weren't dumb, in my simple language and understanding of things. Locks in those kind of hotels are easy to pick for anybody who has a bit of experience. Anybody with the right tools would have picked that lock in a matter of minutes.

They should have known better.

Legally there was leniency on them, I bet in the US this would have caused them more than a bit of legal trouble for leaving their children alone and unsupervised.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633250#Comment_120633250

The lock wasn`t picked. The parents left the door unlocked.

JDD

My neighbours used to put their kids in an upside down playpen, put books on top and then head down the field to help a sheep that was lambing.

I don’t blame the McCanns at all. I wouldn’t have locked the doors either - I’d be way more worried about a fire and them being unable to get out than someone trying to break in.

Was it a bad choice to leave them? - of course. In the same way it was a bad choice that my parents left six of us rattling about in the back of a car with no seatbelts. But being suspected as murderers on top of grieving, and then for the incompetent police to bungle justice… I mean, I think they get a let off here.

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633089#Comment_120633089

To be fair, and I know the whole it was/wasn't their fault thing won't be solved on Boards, implications that the restaurant was somehow quite removed from the apartment are wide of the mark - it really was very close. Just measured on Google Maps and it's about 50 metres straight line and maybe 70 metres walking distance.

I believe the hotel offered a 'baby listening' service whereby staff would listen in at the door every so often - which was pretty much exactly what the group were doing anyway so I can see why they didn't bother paying for it.

At the end of the day, they fucked up badly but maybe, just maybe, they didn't even consider the idea of some enterprising pedo being in the area*.

*if that is what happened of course. One theory which I find quite plausible is that Madeleine got up (wasn't she or one of the other kids awake and disturbed on the previous check IIRC?), walked out the door into the street and got knocked down, maybe by a drunk driver who decided to get rid of the evidence sharpish.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633255#Comment_120633255

Even worse, I would say.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633310#Comment_120633310

I would disagree on that. By not locking the door and by leaving the children alone, they provided the opportunity for the crime to happen.

I don't know how much the Portuguese police bungled up the investigation or not. But not finding any leads of somebody else automatically brings the idea of some accident happening and the parents covering things up. Also there would have been pressure to solve the case. Whether that's fair or unfair to suspect the parents, is besides the point. Fact is not much is known and it could only be the one or the other.

The "ze" Germans must have some real convincing leads and reason to suspect Bueckner to start searching around the reservoir again. This leads me to believe that there is sufficient and credible evidence that it wasn't the parents but somebody like Bueckner or Bueckner himself.

He must have staked out the place, familiarized himself with the place, and if he was after children, known where children were staying, known that the door was unlocked. Once the parents were at the tapas place, his opportunity came. That is if he did it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633386#Comment_120633386

Yes, I think it was some 50 to 70 meters between the tapas place and the door, but there was no straight view of the door. So Maddie could easily have walked out by herself as well, not impossible to think. Straight into the hands of someobody like Bueckner or some reckless driver.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633396#Comment_120633396

The question of the parents culpability has been done to death .

Here and everywhere . 16 years now..think that is more than most would pay for child negligence .

I think it's time to move on , just my opinion as a mother .

Gusser09

https://news.sky.com/story/search-of-reservoir-by-police-investigating-madeleine-mccanns-disappearance-to-begin-12887283

Hopefully something comes of this. I hadnt realised the resevoir was searched in 08. Someone knows something thats for sure. You'd fear that there would be nothing left of the poor kid at this stage. My heart goes out for her and her family.

Lets hope they get closure. You wouldnt wish this on anyone.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633488#Comment_120633488

I'd say that they didn't search the entire whole area in 08. They were probably focusing on a different area than they are now. I also have no idea how much would be left of a body to identify after 16 years? - that is if she was murdered and hidden somewhere there?

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633481#Comment_120633481

The McCann's and their friends were criminally negligent to leave children unattended in the manner that they did. It is simply unforgivable.