Madeleine McCann

Spanish Eyes

I wonder if the parents were dolers Anto and Sharon on the p!ss with their mates in a bar would the same empathy exist for them if their child was abducted from an unlocked and unsupervised apartment?

Anyway, the parents were not prosecuted so that's an end to that. Whether the child's remains will be found is anyone's guess. There have been numerous searches over the years, all ending in failure to locate anything.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637397#Comment_120637397

I have actually written something on that. In Germany there was mention that the police were searching for Madeleine's pajama, the pink one she was wearing before her disappearance. They were also collecting other items of interest and packed them in beige bags to be examined by a lab. There was also the decision made to search for another day.

Other than that, nothing new was revealed. Somehow German police have the strong believe that Madeleine is dead and Brueckner was involved, and possibly also the killer. They must have had enough leads to go back to Portugal to search that reservoir again. They are also acting on hints as to the exact location on where they are conducting their search.

That's all I know so far.

It is presumed that real new information will be known and released after the lab reports are known.

Sandor Clegane

I don't no how people can defend, or normalise the parents actions on that night, what they did was wrong on so many levels.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637683#Comment_120637683

Nobody is defending or normalising them. Maybe just empathising with them. Yes they made a massive error. A huge mistake. But by god i wouldnt be crucifying them on top of what they have gone through. I really dont know how they are living with themselves.

LunaLoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637683#Comment_120637683

Nobody is defending them but after 16years im sure they more then anyone looks back and asks what were they thinking. At the time however im sure they thought it wss safe seeing as the hotels they usually stay at offered this kind of service. (This one didnt as it was too spread out for the listener to patrol)

Now however it seems after all this time there is the biggest chance of actually finding out what happened to Madeleine and who might be responsible. It could also be a way of keeping C.B locked up because from the crimes he has been convicted of the creature doesnt deserve to see the light of day again.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637683#Comment_120637683

Not only did they leave the door unlocked, they seemed to check up on the children ever 30 minutes, in some kind of a rotation system. This made things easy and predictable, - the perpetrator just needed to watch and he knew that the door was unlocked. Just 5 minutes after the the regular check up he made his move.

MonkieSocks

From earlier today....the search

https://www.youtube.com/live/gdHFNr1wHd4?feature=share

Eircom_Sucks

why is this case getting 99.9 % of the air time and yet 1000's every year go missing and get none

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638438#Comment_120638438

Why don't you start a separate thread about that?

Eircom_Sucks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637989#Comment_120637989

all their money as doctors and couldn't even get a sitter or do what everybody else does , let the kids sleep in a buggy beside the table

they have the gall to come out and say " it's essential we know what has happened to Madeline on that night "

Gusser09

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/madeleine-mccann-search-news-latest-today-b2345492.html

One would hope and expect that investigators are holding something a bit more concrete back here. You would assume they have something which definitively links him to the child.

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637989#Comment_120637989

I've read into the case a good bit and I have my doubts over how frequent or regular the checks were. The other people at dinner also had kids left unattended and they all make it sound like they were up and down every few minutes, hardly worth going out at all really.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638541#Comment_120638541

If they had a definitive connection, then he would have been arrested and charged a year ago. He is a sicko who fits the profile of someone who might kidnap a child for sexual gratification and who was in the general area at the time of the abduction. That`s about it and I`ve seen nothing in the public domain that goes beyond that. Then of course one has to believe that this was an abduction to begin with.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638805#Comment_120638805

I watched the Netflix documentary last night and one of the Portuguese journalists made that very point. If the parents were getting up and sitting down every 30 minutes it would have been like a busy airport not a relaxing dinner. As you said, hardly any point going out.

Considering human nature, especially where there is drinking going on, how strict were they with the every 30 minutes? "I'll go now in a minute, oops the starters have just arrived, I'll have my starter and go then"...

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637444#Comment_120637444

Yes I’m trying to ‘protect’ a serious and evil criminal. 😒 cop on will ya.

we can’t talk about the criminal, because we simply don’t know who he , she or they are.

if the parents had been responsible and protected their child she still alive…. Not difficult to understand .

you can defend them all you like in as many posts as you like, attack as many posters of the opposite viewpoint with the snarky comments as you like.

but the facts are facts, Madelines kidnap was enabled by dreadful careless parenting…

Sandor Clegane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637685#Comment_120637685

I definitely empathise with them, obviously they didn't deserve what happened and they'll be carrying the weight and consequences of their actions for the rest of their lives.

I remember going to spain with family as a child myself and someone would always stay behind in the appartment if another was going out, you'd never ever be left on your own not even for a minute, it was just standard procedure and this was before any of the maddie stuff.

Anyway whats done is done, as you say they don't deserve to be crucified any further.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639007#Comment_120639007

The fact they left them along to begin with leaves me to believe there's not a chance they were up every 30mins. Horrible decision , horrible consequences.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639211#Comment_120639211

Fully agree and understand. Not a hope I'd have left my kids alone like that at all. Just wouldn't cross my mind. As a family we'd always bring the kids out when we were having dinner no matter how late etc or we'd make plans to go earlier with all of the kids. Gone back to the bar at the resort and had a beer there. If we still wanted another beer it would have been back to the apartment and one there with the kids. I'll never understand why they and their friends done what they done. The mind boggles. They are paying the ultimate price now and the worst thing about it all is not knowing what really happened. That's the real nightmare of it all you would think.

The one thing I would say about Kate and Gerry is have they ever come out publicly about the night and leaving the kids alone? Going up every 30 minutes just isn't sufficient for toddlers anyway. Obviously they shouldn't have been alone.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639216#Comment_120639216

Between the ages of about 2 and 8 I was fortunate enough to be taken on holidays to Portugal to a resort about 30km away from PDL. My parents were not rich, but I distinctly remember a few times them getting a babysitter for us and them going out for dinner just the two of them. 30 odd years later I still remember one of them reading The Family Ness books to us. I don't know what they charged but I really can't imagine it was very much in those days. I just looked it up, even today, the minimum wage in Portugal is 4.40 euro. In 2007 I'm sure you could have gotten a sitter for 10 euros for the night without having to get up every 30 minutes.

My parents would have gotten a sitter mayybe one night of the holiday, and the other nights we went out with them, and either played in the sand while they finished dinner, or as another poster said, fell asleep in the buggy.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638541#Comment_120638541

They must have, otherwise they won't organize such an investigation and revisit that reservoir. The main assumption is that the German police found among Brueckner's possessions pictures of Madeleine possibly being recognizably dead on his USB sticks? As they seem to be focusing on a certain area, they must have gotten that tip off from somewhere or someone and a compelling reason to search. And then there is a cost factor as well as a coordination factor between police forces necessary. I don't know when and if an official police update is expected? I suppose maybe before they take everything to the lab and call the search off - for the time being?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637683#Comment_120637683

they were basically sitting 50meters away from the kids, about the same distance as if you were having dinner in the back garden and the kids in the house upstairs

there were parents checking on the kids every 20-30 mins

not that much to defend

Beasty

TooTired123 threadbanned

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639250#Comment_120639250

have you never forgotten to lock a door, left a window open on a hot night, had a kid wander out of view for a moment

the tragedy here is the abduction, not the mccanns

if someone is as determined as this person to vanish a child like that its just bad luck that they might target you

the people who blame the parents have no sense

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639425#Comment_120639425

I'm not blaming them at all. But I'd never leave toddles and babies in an apartment on their own. That's not me blaming them. I have nothing but sympathy for them and hope they get closure. They have suffered enough. I do think though that their decision to dine out away from the apartment that night will haunt them forever. Of course it will.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639400#Comment_120639400

The door of the apartment was not even visible from where they were having dinner. I remember watching the documentary and being shocked at the layout, distance from apartment and being shocked how 6 professional people could think that it was ok to leave kids alone . Aside from the worst ( abduction) a 4 year old and 2 18 month olds could come to all sorts of harm left alone. To put in context imagine if a couple in Ireland decided to leave their kids alone and pop out for a meal around the corner - they would be considered negligent parents and there would be consequences.

Anyway I know the McCann's must regret that stupid decision every day since. I hope little Maddie is found and that there is some closure for them.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639457#Comment_120639457

bringing it up like that sounds exactly like blame and while you might not be that's the general tone at the time and still is in this thread

Gusser09

I'd imagine anyone with kids aren't blaming them.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639470#Comment_120639470

Well of course the McCanns must carry some blame. Leaving small kids alone was negligent - How can you think it was ok to do that?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639476#Comment_120639476

I have 3 kids myself and would never leave them alone in any circumstances.

thatphil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639425#Comment_120639425

Not to bash the parents too much but it's not "just bad luck" as you put it. These are often crimes of opportunity. Don't give the criminals the opportuinity and there is no crime.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639467#Comment_120639467

there are no laws against leaving any age of child alone in the house in ireland

if something happens the while you are neglecting them, well you could be up **** creek

they had a nice prime time about it a few years back, garda not acting on people raising concerns about kids left alone during day

no laws setting the minimum age for a baby sitter etc

its **** really

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639476#Comment_120639476

see below

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639485#Comment_120639485

of course its bad luck, crimes of opportunity are by definition

like the case of jamie bulger or would you blame the mother for that one?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639480#Comment_120639480

its the likes of the mccanns that teach people this

everyday I see way worse parenting just in the estate and thankfully there arent that many predators about, there is more opportunity that anyone would ever need

even I, possibly the best parent ever have lost sight of one child as they both run different directions in a shopping center

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639425#Comment_120639425

the tragedy here is the abduction, not the mccanns

The abduction happened primarily through their own actions. They are partly to blame for this.

If Madeleine had wandered out into the pool area and drowned because they'd left the door unlocked, they'd be shouldering at least some of the blame. Same here. It's through their actions that the tragedy became possible, ergo, their fault (at least partially). This isn't someone being sexually assaulted because of their short skirts or anything, they deliberately and willfully left their kids alone and unsupervised, out of sight and left the bleeding door open.

Yes, they have suffered the consequences in the most unimaginable horrific way, but that doesn't absolve them of their culpability. I left my phone on the bus once, never got it back. Whoever kept it is guilty of stealing but it's my fault they had the opportunity to do so.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639524#Comment_120639524

Leaving small kids alone was incredibly stupid. Aside from abduction small children could have become ill, ( I think 1 kid was actually sick at the time ), had an accident, wandered out of the apartment or there could have been a fire. It was crazy of all the parents in this group to take the risk.

I don't live on an estate so don't see kids let run wild but I know you are probably correct. Kids running off in a shopping centre is a completely different scenario - this is accidental rather than parents consciously leaving kids alone.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639563#Comment_120639563

even in your own post you went from primarily at fault to partially at fault

no one is at fault for some random pedo snatching a child

the pedo is at fault

if the child fell into the pool unwatched, the parents are at fault, only there actions are at play, if someone threw them in they are at fault

if someone had taken the phone from your bag would it be the same as you losing the phone, perhaps sitting somewhere or in a bin

thatphil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639507#Comment_120639507

Paying for your shopping with your child stood beside you is hardly the same as leaving your children unsupervised to have dinner with your friends so no Jamies mother bears no responsibility. The McCanns though did leave a massive opportunity for somebody to exploit and unfourtunatley thats what happened

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639569#Comment_120639569

even the fact the other parents did it shows its not that abnormal

you have kids? where do you live

if you live out the country then kids there have freedom too, in an apartment, much the same

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639604#Comment_120639604

he wandered off, was she at fault? I'm sure she feels like she was

and it was total randomness that 2 psychos were there to take him

both mistakes, one worse than the other

neither to blame for what happened thought

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639400#Comment_120639400

Exactly. When my kids were smaller there were the odd few occasions where myself and herself went across to the neighbours (about the same distance as the McCanns were from their apartment) for a few drinkies on a weekend night while the kids were asleep with the front door unlocked. Could a roving pedo have happened to pass along and take advantage? I guess so. But we judged the risk to be very low - and got away with it. The McCanns too judged the risk to be low - but got it badly wrong. Yes, the McCanns messed up - but 17 years of being berated left right and centre is probably enough at this stage!

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639476#Comment_120639476

I would think anyone with kids wouldn't of made that decision, I know we would of never done that.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639683#Comment_120639683

sure the real deal is people think they did it

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639697#Comment_120639697

yet at least 3 pairs of parent on the one night did

weird that

and doctors no less, feckin doctors

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639490#Comment_120639490

child neglect is a crime here so if you go across the road to borrow say a jar of coffee off a neighbour … come straight back having ensured the property was secure…. No problem….grand….

if you neglect a child, feck off to a friends house for coffee, a restaurant , door unsecured, something happens, it’s on you…. Child wanders onto the road, child accesses the medicine cabinet and takes something…same…

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639726#Comment_120639726

its not neglect if you leave them...no? i'm not talking about getting coffee from the neighbours

it could be neglect, note code be, if something happened because of the neglect

I think you can see the problem with having the laws setup like that, neglect after the fact

its brainless

but have you ever heard of tusla, the state agency for putting abused children back with there abusers

nuff said

its like getting rid of a all rules of the road and the only rule being dangerous driving... if... you cause an accident

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639612#Comment_120639612

I live in the country - I still would never leave the kids home alone.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639683#Comment_120639683

I think what is happening is that all the people who solved zero missing child cases and thought the McCanns did it now want to get them on something else. Of course they were negligent, but keeping bringing it up achieves what?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639761#Comment_120639761

the country is even worse, the amount of dangerous things to get up to is massive

you have deffo been more than 50m from your kids

I never leave mine alone in the house either, but wouldn't judge what they did harshly especially after seeing the documentary and the setup and how close they were

its not the obvious place I'd be doing an abduction from anyway.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639785#Comment_120639785

i think you might be struggling with engleesh yourself there

you went from primarily to partly, its right up there in black and white

in the case of falling in the pool, only the parents are responsible, you can easily see the difference, there is no 3rd party actor involved

if the child wandered out and fell in the pool versus someone taking them from their bed and throwing them in the pool, this is the difference

the person responsible is the person who took the child, in the above car example who is going to jail, you or the person who took the car

the left the door open so people could check every 15 mins that the kids were ok

I mean they didn't do anything that bad really