B&Q Refusing Cash Tranactions

GerardKeating

maestroamado wrote: »

Well i am of the opinion that retailer cannot refuse "legal tender"

You are partially right, but mostly wrong.

As has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, Legal tender must be accepted to settle a debt (but there is a limit on the number of coin that can be used).

But in a retail sutuation, the debt does not exist until you buy something, if they refuse to sell, no debt exists.

CalamariFritti

Cash is freedom. Freedom from having every Penny you spend being traceable. Freedom from negative interest. Freedom from fees. Freedom from total control by banks and governments.

If cash was done away with people would just find an alternate currency or start bartering again.

Of course the cashless agenda will be using COVID as another argument against cash.

L1011

CalamariFritti wrote: »

If cash was done away with people would just find an alternate currency or start bartering again.

Except that simply hasn't happened in countries where cash use has basically ended.

FluffPiece

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Freedom from fees.

Hahahahaha

micosoft

maestroamado wrote: »

Well i am of the opinion that retailer cannot refuse "legal tender"
I am pretty sure on this.


Was the law changed recently??


This is just a thread as you say...

But not sure enough to bother looking it up? The law never changed. It's always been the case. You are wrong. It's literally in the Dictionary. https://www.lexico.com/definition/legal_tender

the_syco

Quackster wrote: »

I can't understand why anyone would want to though for the vast majority of transactions.

Americans/Canadians/etc get charged for any transaction not made at their bank. Thus some people over there don't do many transactions. If you use X amount of transactions, it cost a fiver. I went out of my way to use it as much as I could, HAH! If they were going to charge me, I may as well make them suffer a little :pac:

SPDUB

1874 wrote: »

I agree, I did already point that out that it was likely easier to open an account years ago, when ATMs were introduced first and even since, that said, I think similar requirements exist for any new or even existing accounts, ie Credit Union, PO account and any card associated with them,

I believe its a legal requirement to be able to prove who you are for having/opening/operating an account for reasonable purposes, so no one is getting away with it

A relative of mine sent in photocopy of a work ID , library card and a few bills and said that they didn't drive , have a passport or receive social welfare and two separate institutions accepted that for an account created before the current regulations came in

Couldn't open any new accounts though even if the teller opening the account had dealt with them on the existing account

Flickerfusion

phormium wrote: »

The Canadian notes are plastic and can actually be washed or sprayed, maybe we should be changing to something like that for next issues.

So can Euro notes.

They’re basically a form of laminated cotton and will happily survive a trip through a washing machine and dryer in your pocket.

The Coronavirus isn’t exactly difficult to kill on surfaces. If anything it’s very fragile. Even just keeping notes for a few days is enough to have it disappear.

It also doesn’t survive on porous, dry surfaces as long as on metal and plastic surfaces. So, if anything plastic could be worse.

Also coins may be problematic as it survives very happily on metal for quite a while.

That being said, from a hygiene point of view cash has probably always been a vector for flu and cold viruses.

So it might be no harm we are thinking about it for the first time.

What we could do with is a true cash replacement that keeps people happy with the idea they’re relatively anonymous. I don’t think every transaction needs to be logged in a central database, as it is with cards and also present day card technology is relatively old fashioned as a concept.

Seems like a cryptowallet, even if it were in Euro would make a lot of sense as a cash replacement.

charlie14

If a business does not want my cash I would take it they did not want my custom and go somewhere that appreciated it the custom.

L1011

charlie14 wrote: »

If a business does not want my cash I would take it they did not want my custom and go somewhere that appreciated it the custom.

Good luck buying takeout food anywhere in the medium term.

One grumpy persons custom is not worth the cash handling costs and infection risks (which always existed for other viruses/bacteria) anymore.

Bikerman2019

L1011 wrote: »

Good luck buying takeout food anywhere in the medium term.

One grumpy persons custom is not worth the cash handling costs and infection risks (which always existed for other viruses/bacteria) anymore.

And the protection of the health of the staff should always trump people throwing tantrums.....

charlie14

L1011 wrote: »

Good luck buying takeout food anywhere in the medium term.

One grumpy persons custom is not worth the cash handling costs and infection risks (which always existed for other viruses/bacteria) anymore.

Not a problem. I do not eat take away. These business not taking cash must not have been that hard hit financial as they say if they can afford to refuse legal tender.
Far as I`m concerned banks are big enough rip-of merchants as they are without handing them a piece of every transaction I make.

L1011

charlie14 wrote: »

No a problem. I do not eat take away. These business not taking cash must not have been that hard hit financial as they say if they can afford to refuse legal tender.
Far as I`m concerned banks are big enough rip-of merchants as they are without handing them a piece of every transaction I make.

The number of people who insist on paying for cash is tiny, with the risk and costs far too high. Many places could not afford to take the risk anymore; or take the cost of either hiring seperate cash handling staff or deal with the lost time of sanitisation etc. Its the exact opposite of how you imagine it - taking cash is now very expensive.

As for the banks - the merchant will be paying the banks handsomely for handling the cash and change services. Costs passed on to customers.

Flickerfusion

There’s a constant notion that handling cash is free. It absolutely is not. The banks charge signifiant money for processing cash and for retailers it also comes with very significant overheads due to a requirement for physical security too.

Merchant’s card handling costs are also falling very rapidly due to the availability of more processors. Some don’t shop around and then wonder why they’re being charged astronomical rates for cards, and then try to pass those on to customers. To me that’s just Luddite behaviour. When’s the last time a shop imposed a cash handling fee? They both have overheads.

My concern with cards in Europe is the Visa and MasterCard duopoly. There’s a good reason for ensuring there is an open standards European based system to allow for easier handling of such payments and there is one in the offing at the moment based on the instantaneous, real time version of SEPA. It could be very interesting as it’s potentially far more secure than traditional credit card type transactions and will be based on the assumption people have mobile devices to authenticate transactions in real time, rather than just trusting retailers.

It would also open up a market where banks and other financial service providers will potentially be able to offer debit and credit cards, without needing membership of those commercial processing networks like Visa and MasterCard. Things will just work on an open standard.

The current setup, convenient as it may be, is allowing two US corporations to control the vast majority of European consumer transactions. That’s not really sustainable from a competition law point of view, nor is it sustainability when you consider the agressive political positions and weaponising of trade by the US.

What would happen if Trump decides to disrupt one of those payment systems and hold a country to ransom? It was unthinkable a few years ago, but now everything appears to be on the table.

I don’t think any country can be dependent on US corporations for their key financial transaction infrastructure anymore.

Dav010

Interesting article on pre-Covid trends relating to digital and cash payments. It seems inevitable that less cash will be handled after Covid. Personally, I always carry some cash, but my kids who are in late teens to early 20s virtually never carry it, when I give them money, they ask for it to be transferred into their accounts electronically for use on Apple Pay or Revulot. They don’t want cash.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/cashless-world-will-we-be-richer-or-poorer-for-it-1.4192721%3fmode=amp

charlie14

L1011 wrote: »

The number of people who insist on paying for cash is tiny, with the risk and costs far too high. Many places could not afford to take the risk anymore; or take the cost of either hiring seperate cash handling staff or deal with the lost time of sanitisation etc. Its the exact opposite of how you imagine it - taking cash is now very expensive.

As for the banks - the merchant will be paying the banks handsomely for handling the cash and change services. Costs passed on to customers.

Good for them all. I never had a problem paying with cash for anything. I even found businesses preferred it.
If business`s are as hard hit as they say they are, then I doubt I will have any great trouble doing so now. If they do not want it, their problem.

freshpopcorn

I live and work in a small town.
A lot of pensioners still get there pension paid at the post office.
Some would have worked and were paid in cash and others may have had a basic bank account.
However they’d go into the bank and take out money.
In the shop I work in cash sales are more popular and have been since I started working there. There isn’t much of a change since the Coronavirus hit. It baffles people in the city stores how popular cash is in the county town stores.
I know a few people over 70 and they only deal in cash. A lot of them simply are terrified of using cards or they can’t their heads around it. It’s totally baffling to them no matter how much you explain it or who explains it.

Dav010

charlie14 wrote: »

Good for them all. I never had a problem paying with cash for anything. I even found businesses preferred it.
If business`s are as hard hit as they say they are, then I doubt I will have any great trouble doing so now. If they do not want it, their problem.

Apart from possible tax evasion, I’m struggling to see a benefit of taking cash over digital payments.

charlie14

Dav010 wrote: »

Apart from possible tax evasion, I’m struggling to see a benefit of taking cash over digital payments.

Why would I want to pay a card company money for a purchase they had nothing to do with.
I don`t see why banks should know every little detail of my life either.

Guy:Incognito

charlie14 wrote: »

Why would I want to pay a card company money for a purchase they had nothing to do with..

As has been explained, youre paying banks either way. Every cost a business has goes on to the price of the goods, cash handling fees included.



And providing the payment system is very much having something to do with the purchase.

BTW, do you think some charity prints notes and mints coins for free? You pay for that too one way or another.

Dav010

charlie14 wrote: »

Why would I want to pay a card company money for a purchase they had nothing to do with.
I don`t see why banks should know every little detail of my life either.

You are going to be paying more for taking cash out at an ATM in he future.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/controversial-bank-fees-to-start-in-the-autumn-aib-boss-tells-its-investors-39216345.html

That’s if you can find one:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/concerns-higher-fees-banks-seek-sell-1000-atms-957253

Shops will only do cash back if they have cash to give back.

charlie14

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As has been explained, youre paying banks either way. Every cost a business has goes on to the price of the goods, cash handling fees included.



And providing the payment system is very much having something to do with the purchase.

BTW, do you think some charity prints notes and mints coins for free? You pay for that too one way or another.

Actually I have found that bars and restaurants prefer cash because they are being charged on every card transaction. Restaurant staff prefer it as well for obvious reasons. Has the added benefit of getting your preferred table as well. I don`t see what benefits paying by card has for the customer. tbh.

L1011

charlie14 wrote: »

Actually I have found that bars and restaurants prefer cash because they are being charged on every card transaction. Restaurant staff prefer it as well for obvious reasons. Has the added benefit of getting your preferred table as well. I don`t see what benefits paying by card has for the customer. tbh.

The cost to retailers for card transactions was slashed some years ago. The costs of handling cash have continued to rise and rise and that was before current issues came in.

Paying by card provides safety advantages (theft, chargeback for faulty goods) and is usually cheaper for the consumer unless they take out HUGE amounts of cash in one go (as ATM transactions are normally dearer than card transactions)

charlie14 wrote: »

Good for them all. I never had a problem paying with cash for anything. I even found businesses preferred it.
If business`s are as hard hit as they say they are, then I doubt I will have any great trouble doing so now. If they do not want it, their problem.

If handling your transaction introduces a cost and a safety risk, it behooves any business that's hard hit to refuse it due to the knock-on effects.

Paullimerick

To me a person who is of the age i still love cash in my pocket. I still think come xmas and hopefully this covid has gone. Cash will be king again.

Dav010

charlie14 wrote: »

Actually I have found that bars and restaurants prefer cash because they are being charged on every card transaction. Restaurant staff prefer it as well for obvious reasons. Has the added benefit of getting your preferred table as well. I don`t see what benefits paying by card has for the customer. tbh.

As we move to a cashless society, the Government and banks will make it more expensive to use/withdraw/lodge cash. Like you, I prefer cash, I know how much I have in my wallet, I know when it’s running low and that often stops me from buying crap I don’t need or even want. But it’s like posting letters or phoning someone to give them a brief message, email and text wasn’t and in some cases still isn’t for everyone, but you can’t deny that they are replacing traditional modes of the way we do things.

L1011

Paullimerick wrote: »

To me a person who is of the age i still love cash in my pocket. I still think come xmas and hopefully this covid has gone. Cash will be king again.

It has been declining for years as it is - last time it was "king" was probably the early 90s - and it is very likely that many retailers will never accept it again.

There are no reasons people would go back to it, basically. Contactless limit is increased, places that would never have taken cash have the kit now.

Paullimerick

Itll be many a year before its even near gone. And u can be tracked to every transaction you make. Hmmm. A very long time. Cheques were gone years ago. But i still pay by cheque for certain things.

charlie14

L1011 wrote: »

The cost to retailers for card transactions was slashed some years ago. The costs of handling cash have continued to rise and rise and that was before current issues came in.

Paying by card provides safety advantages (theft, chargeback for faulty goods) and is usually cheaper for the consumer unless they take out HUGE amounts of cash in one go (as ATM transactions are normally dearer than card transactions)




If handling your transaction introduces a cost and a safety risk, it behooves any business that's hard hit to refuse it due to the knock-on effects.

What can I tell you, from many business`s I have dealt with they prefer cash and I prefer paying in cash as I find it has more advantages than card.
I withdraw my salary in a few transactions, and as much as it annoys me, that is the only charge I pay banks. If business`s do not wish to take legal tender for their products, best of luck too them. I have never found a problem finding ones that do. Even quite a few that will give a discount for cash.

Dav010

L1011 wrote: »

It has been declining for years as it is - last time it was "king" was probably the early 90s - and it is very likely that many retailers will never accept it again.

There are no reasons people would go back to it, basically.

I would have to disagree with you on this. While at the moment shops want to avoid handling cash due to Covid, it would be counterproductive to refuse to accept it outright afterwards, you are immediately going to lose some customers as a result. The decline of the use of cash is associated with advances in technology rather than any reluctance on the part of retailers to accept it. Retailers are not in the habit of refusing money, except in exceptional circumstances like those which exist today.

L1011

Paullimerick wrote: »

Itll be many a year before its even near gone. And u can be tracked to every transaction you make. Hmmm. A very long time. Cheques were gone years ago. But i still pay by cheque for certain things.

Most people under 40 would never have had a chequebook and the cheque guarantee card was removed years ago - they're about as relevant now as fax machines.

Dav010 wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you on this. While at the moment shops want to avoid handling cash due to Covid, it would be counterproductive to refuse to accept it outright afterwards, you are immediately going to lose some customers as a result. The decline of the use of cash is associated with advances in technology rather than any reluctance on the part of retailers to accept it. Retailers are not in the habit of refusing money, except in exceptional circumstances like those which exist today.

If places like coffee shops start taking it again I'd expect a 'card discount' to come in (coupled with an across the board price increase) to cover the cost and effort of cash.

In Sweden there are plenty of retailers who refused to accept it well before the crisis due to the effort and cost. Most newer Brewdog bars don't take cash either; except Dublin!