Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

TomTomTim

JimmyVik wrote: »

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of being labelled "White" and with that label comes all sorts of negatives. Like "Privileged", "Racist".

And then its gets worse "White Middle aged male".
I find this very offensive tbh.

Yes, I am a white - almost middle aged - male.
wtf did I do to deserve to be labelled and abused.
And its the people who dont like to be labelled themselves who are the worst at it.

The first part answers the second part. You're guilty purely because of your skin color to these types. I used to think that most people with any sense rejected collective guilt, the last few years have proven me so wrong.

Foxtrol

oyvey wrote: »

You know, I take it back. I actually don't think you're trolling. You put too much effort into your posts to be trolling. Unfortunately I think much of what's been said here is just failing to resonate with you for whatever reason. I think we probably agree more than you seem to realize.

Your point is failing to resonate because you refuse to be clear on what you're stating.

From your posts I know you're against pressure being put on these actors, but you haven't stated whether you're against pressure ever being put on any person or company or whether your issue is pressure being put on this topic.

Your dancing around from answering my question seems more time consuming for you than just stating your position clearly so I can understand.

Tokyo

Mod: @1800_Ladladlad - the majority of your posts are tweets/articles/linkdumps without any supporting opinion of your own, which adds nothing to the discussion and is lazy debate at best.

Learn to use your words. Signal to noise and all that - if you continue dumping tweets/articles/links on the forum without actually personally contributing to the conversation, I'm just going to delete them in future. This applies to all threads, by the way.

oyvey

Foxtrol wrote: »

Your point is failing to resonate because you refuse to be clear on what you're stating.

From your posts I know you're against pressure being put on these actors, but you haven't stated whether you're against pressure ever being put on any person or company or whether your issue is pressure being put on this topic.

Your dancing around from answering my question seems more time consuming for you than just stating your position clearly so I can understand.

This isn't about whether anyone is against pressure ever being put on any person/company in any situation ever. This is a thread about race.
If it isn't clear already I'm against people being pressured out of jobs based on the color of their skin, regardless of whether they are white, black or any other race. Do you agree/disagree?

Foxtrol

oyvey wrote: »

This isn't about whether anyone is against pressure ever being put on any person/company in any situation ever. This is a thread about race.
If it isn't clear already I'm against people being pressured out of jobs based on the color of their skin, regardless of whether they are white, black or any other race. Do you agree/disagree?

I disagree, people are free to complain or put pressure on whoever or whatever they want (obviously not going as far as threats of violence etc).

Given your comment above, are you ok with a white actor today wearing blackface and being cast as a black character?

oyvey

Foxtrol wrote: »

I disagree, people are free to complain or put pressure on whoever or whatever they want (obviously not going as far as threats of violence etc).

OK. Just so we're clear, you wouldn't have an issue with someone being pressured out of a role based on their race (whatever race that may be)?

Foxtrol wrote: »

Given your comment above, are you ok with a white actor today wearing blackface and being cast as a black character?

I have no problem with blackface being banned or whatever, I doubt there's anyone who cares for it anyway. And I'd have no problem with a white actor portraying a black character, or vice-versa.

Rockbeast2

Cover article in Variety about black representation in Hollywood:

https://variety.com/2020/biz/features/black-representation-hollywood-inclusion-diversity-entertainment-1234693219/

What's interesting to me, and is something that has caught my eye in other American publications over past week, is the capitalization of the word "Black" throughout while "white" remains lowercase when used with regard to people/race.

It's subtle, but leaves me in no doubt where this is all leading.

Feel free to call me paranoid if you so wish...

JimmyVik

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

CNN as Gaelige

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1277885264145321984

That picture is a bit misleading.
What I saw when I looked at the videos was a mob who broke down into the place and were marching right up to this couples doorstep and shouting abuse and threatening them.
I understand why they were scared and pulled out the guns.
Id be terrified if I were in their position too. And if guns were legal id be keeping one under the bed after that too.

Of course now with twitterbully they will be targets for the rest of their lives too.

iamstop

JimmyVik wrote: »

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of being labelled "White" and with that label comes all sorts of negatives. Like "Privileged", "Racist".

And then its gets worse "White Middle aged male".
I find this very offensive tbh.

Yes, I am a white - almost middle aged - male.
wtf did I do to deserve to be labelled and abused.
And its the people who dont like to be labelled themselves who are the worst at it.

Hahahaha. Wow.

DavidLyons_

TomTomTim wrote: »

I used to think that most people with any sense rejected collective guilt, the last few years have proven me so wrong.

No, you were correct before. Any person with a functioning brain cell rejects collective guilt.

Foxtrol

oyvey wrote: »

OK. Just so we're clear, you wouldn't have an issue with someone being pressured out of a role based on their race (whatever race that may be)?

I believe in the right to free speech and protest.

If people want to make an ass of themselves trying to pressure someone to do something that is wrong then it just highlights another idiot (see people burning their Nike shoes over Kaep or smashing Keurig because they gave into another boycott).

I have no problem with blackface being banned or whatever, I doubt there's anyone who cares for it anyway. And I'd have no problem with a white actor portraying a black character, or vice-versa.

So you have no problem with blackface with being banned but would you have a problem with people pressuring a white person not to do blackface? The latter is what we're discussing here

Quantum Erasure

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

What's interesting to me, and is something that has caught my eye in other American publications over past week, is the capitalization of the word "Black" throughout while "white" remains lowercase when used with regard to people/race. .

is it like when Obama was black, but not Black, or i seen a clip recently of an African American telling a native African he wasn't 'black'...

black is a colour, Black is a state of mind

2u2me

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

No, you were correct before. Any person with a functioning brain cell rejects collective guilt.

Not only is collective guilt acceptable and promoted by many but also vicarious sin where we inherit the sins of our ancestors. Our modern day version of scapegoating.

We are moving from a 'culture of guilt'(control is maintained by creating and continually reinforcing the feeling of guilt) to a 'culture of shame' (the means of control is the inculcation of shame and the complementary threat of ostracism).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt-shame-fear_spectrum_of_cultures

This is having profound implications I believe not many are paying attention to.
Integrity would be much more prevelant in a "guilt culture" as it doesn't rely on others to lead our moral compasses.

iamstop

iamstop wrote: »

Hahahaha. Wow.

Explain to me how saying privileged white man is any less presumptive and prejudiced than saying stupid black man when discussing people we have don't know.

Especially as the term stupid can and is addressed to anyone, yet privilege is almost exclusively attributed to white people (especially men)

Foxtrol

JimmyVik wrote: »

That picture is a bit misleading.
What I saw when I looked at the videos was a mob who broke down into the place and were marching right up to this couples doorstep and shouting abuse and threatening them.
I understand why they were scared and pulled out the guns.
Id be terrified if I were in their position too. And if guns were legal id be keeping one under the bed after that too.

Of course now with twitterbully they will be targets for the rest of their lives too.

Have any evidence of this?

All I've seen was they were walking on their street past their house.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Explain to me how saying privileged white man is any less presumptive and prejudiced than saying stupid black man when discussing people we have don't know.

Especially as the term stupid can and is addressed to anyone, yet privilege is almost exclusively attributed to white people (especially men)

It is pretty simple. They aren't saying every white person is more privileged.

With all else being equal the white man doesn't have to deal with the racial discrimination the black man does, see all the studies regarding sentencing time, wrongful imprisonment, interactions with law enforcement etc etc.

With all else being equal there is no evidence that I'm aware of regarding your claims of stupidity.

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

Can you please point to the huge BLM drive for this?

I haven't seen many protests demanding this.

These changes to actors that many here appear to be clutching their pearls about are being seen as token gestures that have little to do with anything people are protesting about

You ll have to take off your BLM tinted goggles and you might be able to see, every retort you have is "where ? Where's is it where this happening I can't see it so it's not happening!"

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty simple. They aren't saying every white person is more privileged.

With all else being equal the white man doesn't have to deal with the racial discrimination the black man does, see all the studies regarding sentencing time, wrongful imprisonment, interactions with law enforcement etc etc.

With all else being equal there is no evidence that I'm aware of regarding your claims of stupidity.

Absolute nonsense.

White privilege is a myth, this isn't the 1950s anymore, your laughable point of white people don't get wrongfully imprisoned and it's all just sunshine and rainbows because of the white skin color...

White people don't experience racism? You sure about that ? I could point out quite a few countries where a white person might experience racism, do you genuinely believe half the nonsense you come out with ?

suicide_circus

Cupatae wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.

White privilege is a myth, this isn't the 1950s anymore, your laughable point of white people don't get wrongfully imprisoned and it's all just sunshine and rainbows because of the white skin color...

White people don't experience racism? You sure about that ? I could point out quite a few countries where a white person might experience racism, do you genuinely believe half the nonsense you come out with ?

To paraphrase Chris Rock, most of America is just broke-ass white people.

Deebles McBeebles

https://newsthump.com/2020/06/26/all-lives-matter-insists-woman-who-crosses-the-street-when-she-sees-a-homeless-person/

1800_Ladladlad

Yeah, simply highlighted the utter hypocrisy of this degenerative marxist movement and everything that it manages to decay. Those who proclaim black lives matter, don't care about black lives they care about black culture in the US. It's obvious that it's too much for some "twitter activists" to see that current day events of black on black crime or any crime carried out by a black person can be/is a "live" representation of all evidence provided on this thread that their claim of systemic racism is simply bullsh*t. Many dont get their own hash tags, like that little girl Aaliyah.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

With all else being equal the white man doesn't have to deal with the racial discrimination the black man does, see all the studies regarding sentencing time, wrongful imprisonment, interactions with law enforcement etc etc.

White people do suffer discrimination though. In mostly black areas, white people certainly do suffer discrimination.

In a place where there is a majority of any race, there will be discrimination and there will be racist attitudes.

I'm against racism. Assuming white privilege is racism. I'm against that.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

White people do suffer discrimination though. In mostly black areas, white people certainly do suffer discrimination.

In a place where there is a majority of any race, there will be discrimination and there will be racist attitudes.

I'm against racism. Assuming white privilege is racism. I'm against that.

Given that the black population in the US makes up 13% of the overall, on average they suffer a lot more discrimination.

Tony EH

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Yeah, simply highlighted the utter hypocrisy of this degenerative marxist movement

And you've just highlighted that you know fuck all about Marxism. :pac:

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

Given that the black population in the US makes up 13% of the overall, on average they suffer a lot more discrimination.

This is fair to say.

But "white privilege" is still bullshit.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

White people do suffer discrimination though. In mostly black areas, white people certainly do suffer discrimination.

In a place where there is a majority of any race, there will be discrimination and there will be racist attitudes.

I'm against racism. Assuming white privilege is racism. I'm against that.

Privilege is just another word for advantage.
In Britain it is an advantage/privilege to belong to the upper classes, go to schools like Eton, and Universities like Oxford or Cambridge. That is class privilege. If all things are equal for two people, talent, work ethic etc a person from the upper class will have an advantage/privilege.

White privilege is mostly an American thing, certainly not in Ireland. In America for two people from identical background identical ability, been white will be an advantage.
That doesn't mean every white person has an advantage over every black person.
A rich black person still has better opportunities than a poor white person.
Still, when other factors are equal there is an advantage/ privelege to been white.

Foxtrol

Cupatae wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.

White privilege is a myth, this isn't the 1950s anymore, your laughable point of white people don't get wrongfully imprisoned and it's all just sunshine and rainbows because of the white skin color...

White people don't experience racism? You sure about that ? I could point out quite a few countries where a white person might experience racism, do you genuinely believe half the nonsense you come out with ?

From our previous discussions you've made it clear that you don't care about facts but here are some anyway.

I'm sure you'll find some way to claim how you feel/see/imagine things to be more important than data so I'll leave my discussion with you here.

On wrongful convictions - http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exo...onvictions.pdf

'African-American prisoners who are convicted of murder are about 50% more likely to be innocent than other convicted murderers'

The convictions that led to murder exonerations with black defendants were 22% more likely to include misconduct by police officers than those with white defendants.

Judging from exonerations, a black prisoner serving time for sexual assault is threeand-a-half times more likely to be innocent than a white sexual assault convict.

On length of sentence comes straight from the government - https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing

Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders. Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders

Tony EH

joe40 wrote: »

White privilege is mostly an American thing,

Unfortunately it isn't staying in America though. That idiotic term is creeping over this side of the Atlantic too.

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty simple. They aren't saying every white person is more privileged.

With all else being equal the white man doesn't have to deal with the racial discrimination the black man does, see all the studies regarding sentencing time, wrongful imprisonment, interactions with law enforcement etc etc.

With all else being equal there is no evidence that I'm aware of regarding your claims of stupidity.

White privilege.. an assuming broad statement about a group of people based on there skin color ...

You know what that sounds like ? 10 points if you can guess! That's right folks racism.

joe40

Tony EH wrote: »

Unfortunately it isn't staying in America though. That idiotic term is creeping over this side of the Atlantic too.

It definitely doesn't apply in Ireland, not sure about the UK though.