Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

katiek102010

I forgot to address the term white privilage in my post above.

I know numerous people of colour, anyone I know who is a person of colour and who has a good work ethic believes that the term white privilage is actually racist.

To them it reinforces that white people are superior in every way to them, based on skin colour. A friend who is a teacher put it this way, a white mass murderer is superior to her because he is white.

She believes that using this term reinforces the chip on the shoulders of the little scum going around in gangs, and the belief that white people owe them something.

She is also mortified and embarrassed over the whole BLam movement and the raising of a scumbag to sainthood when their rare many more deserving victims of police brutality, not racism, that deserved the outrage.

OMM 0000

katiek102010 wrote: »

I forgot to address the term white privilage in my post above.

I know numerous people of colour, anyone I know who is a person of colour and who has a good work ethic believes that the term white privilage is actually racist.

To them it reinforces that white people are superior in every way to them, based on skin colour. A friend who is a teacher put it this way, a white mass murderer is superior to her because he is white.

She believes that using this term reinforces the chip on the shoulders of the little scum going around in gangs, and the belief that white people owe them something.

She is also mortified and embarrassed over the whole BLam movement and the raising of a scumbag to sainthood when their rare many more deserving victims of police brutality, not racism, that deserved the outrage.

The entire concept of white privilege is so ignorant.

It is class privilege not white privilege.

The white son of two unemployed drunks has zero privilege.

The brown son of two Indian immigrant doctors has a lot of privilege.

This concept of trying to determine someone's value by their race or gender is utterly toxic and stupid and the fact so many people are so thick they can't see this is really disturbing.

katiek102010

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The entire concept of white privilege is so ignorant.

It is class privilege not white privilege.

The white son of two unemployed drunks has zero privilege.

The brown son of two Indian immigrant doctors has a lot of privilege.

This concept of trying to determine someone's value by their race or gender is utterly toxic and stupid and the fact so many people are so thick they can't see this is really disturbing.

100% agree, it's a divisionary term.

We need to promote inclusion not division, its the only way to end racism

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think the point the statement is accurate in the US, as I explained above, but it is incredibly unhelpful thing to use in discussions.

I think we can all agree with that.

But it's a problem that occurs will most of these off-the-cuff labels. They sound smart, but far too often require a "health warning" to tell people what it doesn't mean, which to my mind makes them unfit for purpose.

"White privilege" on the face of it, sounds aggressive, accusatory and, as you say, unhelpful. It's extremely loaded with all the wrong turns such a phrase can exude.

And, honestly, it's open to abusive usage way too easily. It becomes a handy verbal weapon to shut people up.

Tony EH

Danzy wrote: »

White privilege seems to be a slight of hand for the modern left to explain away class privilege in a way that doesn't show them up as the upper middle class types they are.

These people aren't the left.

Don't know why you are incapable of getting this.

Yamanoto

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is a worldwide issues that poverty is linked to broken family units.

It is the same in Ireland

There is incontrovertibly a culture among some black men of jumping ship at the first sign of a foetal heartbeat. It's by no means a black issue only, but the statistical pattern repeatedly shows the highest proportion of lone parent families come from that community. In the US, the discrepancy between blacks and other races is stark.

Rockbeast2

Sinzo wrote: »

The very same factors are present in poorer, disadvantaged groups everywhere. Whether the child is white or black, the likelihood is that the same trends will reveal themselves in that community.
The same stigma that attaches itself in Ireland to coming from a "rough area" is present in the black pronects and white trailer parks in the US.
An extra component for blacks is the fact that they are a minority in a majority white country so there is a natural tribalism that permeates the majority culture that tends to pick one of their own rather than an equally qualified black alternative.
In itself it's more about who they are more comfortable to work with. There may be a racism element to such choices but it may also be down to a preference or expectation that they will gel better with someone of their own culture. The very same tendencies occur in black or Asian groups. Where it causes extra harm in the case of blacks is that the power and wealth generally rests with the majority group so the opportunities open to black people are more limited as a result... cultural differences have a major role to play.. the "acting white" or "uncle Tom" moniker is a good example of these cultural preferences..

I'm a big believer in the ubiquity of The Pareto Principle. Some might be surprised how often it is used by major international corporations to make major decisions.

If a society can achieve an 80/20, contributors to takers ratio, that would be the dream. And a contributor is not necessarily a taxpayer. They could be someone whose efforts now contribute to developing future contributors to society.

Unfortunately, and for reasons if I knew I'd be the wealthiest man alive, black communities worldwide in majority White countries have never even made a 20/80 contribution.

Citate my ass with statistics to hell and prove me wrong. I'll admit it in morning if you prove me wrong.

To paraphrase an old line:

"If you keep meeting racists in every country you go to then maybe you're the racist."

I believe a lack of respect for education is the problem.

Cupatae

katiek102010 wrote: »

100% agree, it's a divisionary term.

We need to promote inclusion not division, its the only way to end racism

Definitely !

It's ironic the first people that tend to use the term "white privilege" usually bang on about equality and ending racism aswell..

I do get a good laugh outta the double standards tho... It's amazing to see the mental gymnastics used to justify the use of white privilege, all the while being outraged by other racial slurs / incidents

joe40

katiek102010 wrote: »

I forgot to address the term white privilage in my post above.

I know numerous people of colour, anyone I know who is a person of colour and who has a good work ethic believes that the term white privilage is actually racist.

To them it reinforces that white people are superior in every way to them, based on skin colour. A friend who is a teacher put it this way, a white mass murderer is superior to her because he is white.

She believes that using this term reinforces the chip on the shoulders of the little scum going around in gangs, and the belief that white people owe them something.

She is also mortified and embarrassed over the whole BLam movement and the raising of a scumbag to sainthood when their rare many more deserving victims of police brutality, not racism, that deserved the outrage.

This is a video of a high ranking US Army general talking about his experiences.
He has achieved at a very high level and achieved more than vast majority of whites Americans. I know that
But due to American society he had additional hurdles that his colleagues didn't.

Video is not too long, It is worth a watch in my opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/jun/06/what-i-am-thinking-about-charles-brown-jr-african-american-us-air-force-george-floyd-protests-video

Sinzo

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

I'm a big believer in the ubiquity of The Pareto Principle. Some might be surprised how often it is used by major international corporations to make major decisions.

If a society can achieve an 80/20, contributors to takers ratio, that would be the dream. And a contributor is not necessarily a taxpayer. They could be someone whose efforts now contribute to developing future contributors to society.

Unfortunately, and for reasons if I knew I'd be the wealthiest man alive, black communities worldwide in majority White countries have never even made a 20/80 contribution.

Citate my ass with statistics to hell and prove me wrong. I'll admit it in morning if you prove me wrong.

To paraphrase an old line:

"If you keep meeting racists in every country you go to then maybe you're the racist."

I believe a lack of respect for education is the problem.

The 80/20 split has been identified in so many areas of discussion. I dont necessarily believe that the black minority in the USA are not achieving that ratio. The black u employment rate, I would hazard a guess, does not exceed 20% generally.
I tend to believe that race is becoming too prominent in the discussion of bla k disadvantage generally. As I said earlier, where there are equally qualified candidates the tendency in any group is to pick their own kind. Where there is a clear superior ability in a black proponent there is evidence that the better or more talented person will be picked. A cursory look at the US sporting and entertainment arena will provide clear evidence that the US is not as deeply racist as some would paint it. The fact that blacks are hugely over represented is proof of this. The Pareto Principle may even be evident in sports and music.

Rockbeast2

QUOTE=Sinzo;113900887]The 80/20 split has been identified in so many areas of discussion. I dont necessarily believe that the black minority in the USA are not achieving that ratio. The black u employment rate, I would hazard a guess, does not exceed 20% generally.

Eh, we both know unemployment statistics are B.S.. A single black woman raising 3 gangbangers of 13/15/17 is not classified as unemployed. My point is neither she, nor they, are contributing, or going to contribute to society.

I tend to believe that race is becoming too prominent in the discussion of bla k disadvantage generally.

You just brought race into it???! " black disadvantage"

How can "race" not be prominent when, as you wrote, it is a discussion about "black disadvantage generally"?

[/QUOTE]

^^^ sorry. Boards messed up my post. All there, though.

Sinzo

ShamrockAir wrote:

I'm not sure if you are a troll or genuine. Surely the youth of today can't be this sensitive.

Rockbeast2 wrote:

You just brought race into it???! " black disadvantage"

Rockbeast2 wrote:

QUOTE=Sinzo;113900887]The 80/20 split has been identified in so many areas of discussion. I dont necessarily believe that the black minority in the USA are not achieving that ratio. The black u employment rate, I would hazard a guess, does not exceed 20% generally.

Rockbeast2 wrote:

QUOTE=Sinzo;113900887]The 80/20 split has been identified in so many areas of discussion. I dont necessarily believe that the black minority in the USA are not achieving that ratio. The black u employment rate, I would hazard a guess, does not exceed 20% generally.

Well the discussion is about all lives matter and BLM originally. So race was obviously at the centre of the discussion. I profered a belief that there is too much emphasis on race and racial differences. I obviously "brought race I to it". It's the topic of the discussion so there's not much point in talking about something unrelated now is there. I wasnt criticising you. I was pointing out that race is becoming more militarised generally.

Rockbeast2

That's fair enough, Sinzo.

I'm a believer in hard work and hard drinking. Also, hard rock music but not the 80s hairspray bit.

* I have no idea who shamrock is. It's rude to quote us together. I have standards and I don't go above them.

Sinzo

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

That's fair enough, Sinzo.

I'm a believer in hard work and hard drinking. Also, hard rock music but not the 80s hairspray bit.

* I have no idea who shamrock is. It's rude to quote us together. I have standards and I don't go above them.

As the late Bill O Herlihy was want to say " we'll leave it there so".

katiek102010

joe40 wrote: »

This is a video of a high ranking US Army general talking about his experiences.
He has achieved at a very high level and achieved more than vast majority of whites Americans. I know that
But due to American society he had additional hurdles that his colleagues didn't.

Video is not too long, It is worth a watch in my opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/jun/06/what-i-am-thinking-about-charles-brown-jr-african-american-us-air-force-george-floyd-protests-video

How did the hurdles he had to overcome different from a traveller in Ireland or a refugee with white skin in any European country or an irish person in the UK in recent years.

Using the term white privlidge not only reinforces the belief that white people are automatically superior to black people but it also reinforces the belief that discrimination based on race and ethnicity is o ly a black white issue, when it's not.

It's less than 100 years ago since the worst genocide in history occurred, the vast majority of the victims were white.

History said never again and yet less than 30 years ago it did, again in Europe with the victims again are white.

We need to promote terms of equality and inclusion not subversion and division

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

No it's not assuming all white people have a headstart. A rich black American has more advantage of privilege than a poor white American.
It is when all other things are equal it is better to be white.

It does not mean that all white people are racist or hold a particular view or opinion.

If your belief is that "if all things are equal, it's better to be white" then YOU are the racist.

Not one person against BLM has even hinted that was the case.

JimmyVik

Foxtrol wrote: »

Have any evidence of this?

All I've seen was they were walking on their street past their house.

Google it. The whole video and story can be seen, without the twittermob filter. Sound and all.
Then come back and tell us you wouldnt be absolutely terrified if you were that couple.

JimmyVik

Cupatae wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.

White privilege is a myth, this isn't the 1950s anymore, your laughable point of white people don't get wrongfully imprisoned and it's all just sunshine and rainbows because of the white skin color...

White people don't experience racism? You sure about that ? I could point out quite a few countries where a white person might experience racism, do you genuinely believe half the nonsense you come out with ?

"Did you hear about the Kerryman .... "
"An Irishman, an Englishman and a Scotsman walked into a bar ..."
“At the Winter Olympics, headline hijack, chaos followed after the Irish bobsleigh team ordered the track to be gritted before they went down,”


I could go on for hours with all the racist against white people jokes ive heard over the years. And that just in Ireland. They have different jokes about different people in other countries.


And I have been to many countries where I was picked on because im white or Irish. Including America.

joe40

katiek102010 wrote: »

How did the hurdles he had to overcome different from a traveller in Ireland or a refugee with white skin in any European country or an irish person in the UK in recent years.


Using the term white privlidge not only reinforces the belief that white people are automatically superior to black people but it also reinforces the belief that discrimination based on race and ethnicity is o ly a black white issue, when it's not.

It's less than 100 years ago since the worst genocide in history occurred, the vast majority of the victims were white.

History said never again and yet less than 30 years ago it did, again in Europe with the victims again are white.

We need to promote terms of equality and inclusion not subversion and division

I said in a previous post that white privilege, is mostly an American thing in current American society.
I didn't say only blacks can experience racism, that is obviously untrue.
Irish people, Jews, Roma gypsies have all experienced racism or prejudice and still do.

I could use the analogy of class privelege in Britain.
The class system in Britain confers an advantage of privilege. A small no. of school has produced a large number of PMs and ministers.
Saying that does not mean upper class people are superior it is just a reflection on modern day British society.

I absolutely agree we need to promote equality and inclusion. How can you do that without discussing where equality and inclusion are lacking.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If your belief is that "if all things are equal, it's better to be white" then YOU are the racist.

Not one person against BLM has even hinted that was the case.

How does that make me a racist?
In American society it is an advantage to be white... Yes I believe that is the case.
That does not mean that every single white person has an advantage over every single black person, it means where other factors such as wealth, etc are taken into account.

That is my belief and I can understand people disagreeing that is fine, but some people are misconstruing what I m saying either deliberately or genuinely, I'm not sure.

JimmyVik

joe40 wrote: »

How does that make me a racist?
In American society it is an advantage to be white... Yes I believe that is the case.
That does not mean that every single white person has an advantage over every single black person, it means where other factors such as wealth, etc are taken into account.

That is my belief and I can understand people disagreeing that is fine, but some people are misconstruing what I m saying either deliberately or genuinely, I'm not sure.

You are being racist though.

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

How does that make me a racist?
In American society it is an advantage to be white... Yes I believe that is the case.
That does not mean that every single white person has an advantage over every single black person, it means where other factors such as wealth, etc are taken into account.

That is my belief and I can understand people disagreeing that is fine, but some people are misconstruing what I m saying either deliberately or genuinely, I'm not sure.

This is the biggest OG I've seen in a long time

Your being absolutely being racist this is the point I was making all along to you, you can't even see the hypocrisy of what your posting it's the same with foxtrol it's laughable..

But you want to "promote equality" good man joe top laugh

Carfacemandog

Chris Rock over 20 years ago:

There ain't a white man in this room would change places with me... and I'm rich!

And funny enough, the start of that clip is him giving out about Puerto Ricans acting as native Americans in parades.

Cupatae

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Chris Rock over 20 years ago:

There ain't a white man in this room would change places with me... and I'm rich!

And funny enough, the start of that clip is him giving out about Puerto Ricans acting as native Americans in parades.

A black comedian banging on about white people why am I not surprised!

Who's up next katt Williams ? Should make for a interesting discussion

joe40

Cupatae wrote: »

This is the biggest OG I've seen in a long time

Your being absolutely being racist this is the point I was making all along to you, you can't even see the hypocrisy of what your posting it's the same with foxtrol it's laughable..

But you want to "promote equality" good man joe top laugh

You're calling me a racist?
My God, discussion and debate are impossible in that case. Nothing I said could possibly be construed as racist for any rational person.
I don't mind disagreement, but that is nonsense.

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

You're calling me a racist?
My God, discussion and debate are impossible in that case. Nothing I said could possibly be construed as racist for any rational person.
I don't mind disagreement, but that is nonsense.

Your judging a race of people and what they achieve by there skin color, white privilege is a thinly veiled racist statement.

Unless of course were deluding ourselves and pretending.

JimmyVik

joe40 wrote: »

You're calling me a racist?
My God, discussion and debate are impossible in that case. Nothing I said could possibly be construed as racist for any rational person.
I don't mind disagreement, but that is nonsense.

No racist ever things they are being racist. They somehow think that they are immune to it. You have made racist comments in this thread. Yes you have.

If you had said it on twitter under your real name, and got rich and famous in a few years time. Oh my, would those words come back to haunt you.

BattleCorp

Foxtrol wrote: »

Have any evidence of this?

All I've seen was they were walking on their street past their house.

The protesters had broken down a gate and unlawfully entered a gated community and were continuing their protest on private property. The house was in the gated community and the homeowners were just protecting their property.

Agreed, there's no proof that the protesters would have attacked the house, but they had unlawfully broken down a gate and entered the private estate so you can't blame the home owners for being 'a little bit cautious'.

So it's not quite the same as walking down the street past their house.

ReggiePines

joe40 wrote: »

You're calling me a racist?
My God, discussion and debate are impossible in that case. Nothing I said could possibly be construed as racist for any rational person.
I don't mind disagreement, but that is nonsense.

But sure Joe you are making negative assumptions based on the color of a person's skin!

ReggiePines

Cupatae wrote: »

Your judging a race of people and what they achieve by there skin color, white privilege is a thinly veiled racist statement.

Unless of course were deluding ourselves and pretending.

White privilege is an imaginary racist crutch used to divert blame from one's own failures.

Every race experiences racism in some form or another, however this idea of systematic racism holding the black man down is utter horse****e and a complete cop-out for what is clearly a cultural issue.