Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

Slavery and racist laws are completely the fault of the state, however, you inferred the rest because it is the argument you'd prefer to have.

Single parenthood in many situations is personal choice, however it is seen worldwide that those from poorer areas have higher rates of single parenthood. It isn't a race issue, it is a poverty issue.

poverty was a far bigger issue in ireland fifty years ago yet single parenthood was far less common

the reduced discouragement of single parenthood this past number of decades has encouraged situations which increase the likelihood of poverty

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

What data? The data does shows a shift in the ratio of single parent families vs traditional families in the 60s... As I said, some of it is due to socio-economic reasons (such as, lack of employment in black communities forcing fathers to work away from home), but there are other cultural shifts within Black culture regarding their own values.

But you're welcome to prove me wrong, rather than simply saying that I'm wrong.

Ever hear of the sexual revolution, with the introduction of better contraceptives?

That's nice, since I didn't attribute anything to race. I attributed it to cultural changes.

We need to deal with the last point before moving on to your other questions, as answering those may be pointless.

What 'culture' are you talking about then? Previous posters quoted stats based on race and you even mention black culture in your post.

You're either talking about the 'culture' of a specific race or the culture of broader society, the latter is fine but has nothing to do with the discussion happening here.

You can't talk about the 'culture' of a specific race and then claim it has nothing to do with race.

splinter65

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're saying White and Black people in the US started off at the same income levels and the massive differences now in average household wealth between people of the two races is driven by lone parents??

I think it is you that needs to think about it.

No. Black fathers are more then twice as likely to be absent from the home where their children live as white fathers. You have to ask yourself why that is, because it’s not the fault of white people.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

You can't talk about the 'culture' of a specific race and then claim it has nothing to do with race.

Nope. It just seems that you can't. Of course, it's "something" to do with race.. but is it specifically about race? No.

Forget it. Some people just want make this topic completely about racism, rather than considering extra factors. I should know better at this stage. I'll leave it to others to argue about.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. It just seems that you can't. Of course, it's "something" to do with race.. but is it specifically about race? No.

What absolute nonsense. In your posts you spoke about the culture of a race and are now tying yourself in a complete knot saying it has nothing to do with race.

It is as ridiculous as me posting about French people and claiming it has 'something to do' with nationality but not 'specifically about' nationality. :rolleyes:

Forget it. Some people just want make this topic completely about racism, rather than considering extra factors. I should know better at this stage. I'll leave it to others to argue about.

A person can talk about race without racism, it just seems difficult for you and some other posters here.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. It just seems that you can't. Of course, it's "something" to do with race.. but is it specifically about race? No.

Forget it. Some people just want make this topic completely about racism, rather than considering extra factors. I should know better at this stage. I'll leave it to others to argue about.

I'm not including you in this, but I find the opposite in this thread.
Your posts do have a bit of balance but most people want to make it all about cultural issues within the AA community nothing to do with Racism or inequality at a societal level.

Foxtrol

splinter65 wrote: »

No. Black fathers are more then twice as likely to be absent from the home where their children live as white fathers. You have to ask yourself why that is, because it’s not the fault of white people.

It is pretty simple though some here are really struggling with it. It is the exact same reason white fathers from poor areas in the US and Ireland are more likely to be absent from the home than those from wealthy areas.

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

poverty was a far bigger issue in ireland fifty years ago yet single parenthood was far less common

the reduced discouragement of single parenthood this past number of decades has encouraged situations which increase the likelihood of poverty

Now which parts of Irish society have seen the largest increases in single parent families, those coming from wealthy families or poor families?

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

Now which parts of Irish society have seen the largest increases in single parent families, those coming from wealthy families or poor families?

welfare encourages single parenthood so obviously the latter

my earlier point was that fifty years ago , single parenthood was far less common ( for cultural - societal reasons ) but poverty was far more common , thus dispelling the alleged inherent link between poverty and single parenthood


the left just automatically assume that single parenthood is soley explained by poverty , relatively recent history shows something different

Yellow_Fern

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty simple though some here are really struggling with it. It is the exact same reason white fathers from poor areas in the US and Ireland are more likely to be absent from the home than those from wealthy areas.

Having kids as an unmarried couple is another unideal setting for kids to be raised in. If you look at the UK some poor ethnic groups eg. bengalis have the highest rates kids in welock. Higher rates than rich white people. While Caribbeans have the lowest. But Africans have relatively high rates. There is some cultural factor. It may be the lack of religion combined with poverty, but what ever it is you are not quite putting your finger on it.

Eric Cartman

Foxtrol wrote: »

Correlation isn't causation.

If anything the evidence points to the opposite that you are implying. It isn't race that causes single parent households, it is poverty. Look at Dublin, where are there more single parents - Tallaght or D4?

The welfare state actively encourages single parenthood as a route to a free house and lifetime income supports, coupled with a toothless process to get fathers to actually pay for their children and an even more toothless approach to charging against welfare payments has created a subset of society where the men and women have nothing to lose and the women have a lot to gain by having unprotected sex with as many men as they can and having as many children as they can.

We're literally paying people to re-enact the last days of Rome.

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

welfare encourages single parenthood so obviously the latter

The US is a welfare state now??

my earlier point was that fifty years ago , single parenthood was far less common ( for cultural - societal reasons ) but poverty was far more common , thus dispelling the alleged inherent link between poverty and single parenthood

You didn't dispel anything. Back 50 years ago poor women were much likelier to be single mothers than wealthy ones.

the left just automatically assume that single parenthood is soley explained by poverty , relatively recent history shows something different

Trying the old Strawman again. Where did anyone say it is the solely explained by it?

Foxtrol

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Having kids as an unmarried couple is another unideal setting for kids to be raised in. If you look at the UK some poor ethnic groups eg. bengalis have the highest rates kids in welock. Higher rates than rich white people. While Caribbeans have the lowest. But Africans have relatively high rates. There is some cultural factor. It may be the lack of religion combined with poverty, but what ever it is you are not quite putting your finger on it.

Seeing that in the US the black community has a higher rate of being religious than white, it is pretty clear people are just making things up now.

Cupatae

kildare lad wrote: »

.

You'd wonder wats the excuse they have, for a lot of the black teenagers running amok in certain parts of Ireland over the last few years ? They're the only race I know of that glorifies drug dealing , crime, pimping , violence , bitches in their music . And yet they'll blame whitey for all their problems

It's Abit ironic really but of course this will just be breezed over by those fighting the good fight and defending all things BLM.. all blame to be assigned to whitey!!

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

Seeing that in the US the black community has a higher rate of being religious than white, it is pretty clear people are just making things up now.

Still have BLM up on that pedastal eh? Black people can still do no wrong in your eyes at some point your gonna be forced to assign some blame to them I know it's tough and I know you think they are some sort of saintly beings but you ll eventually have to come back to reality and realize some black people make dumb decisions and are involved in alot of crime not all of them.. but there are alot.. the statistics simply do not lie.You can kick and scream and deflect but the numbers tell the story.

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

The US is a welfare state now??



You didn't dispel anything. Back 50 years ago poor women were much likelier to be single mothers than wealthy ones.



Trying the old Strawman again. Where did anyone say it is the solely explained by it?

You bought up tallaght which is in Ireland last time I checked

Foxtrol

Cupatae wrote: »

Still have BLM up on that pedastal eh? Black people can still do no wrong in your eyes at some point your gonna be forced to assign some blame to them I know it's tough and I know you think they are some sort of saintly beings but you ll eventually have to come back to reality and realize some black people make dumb decisions and are involved in alot of crime not all of them.. but there are alot.. the statistics simply do not lie.You can kick and scream and deflect but the numbers tell the story.

I see, like many with your point of view, you're still resorting to strawman arguments. You just can't actually deal with the points I'm making.

The worldwide statistics show the connection between poverty and single parenthood (just like poverty and crime).

Trying to tie these things to be due to race is just lazy and simply racist but I'm not surprised to see that here at this stage.

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You bought up tallaght which is in Ireland last time I checked

So you're saying in Ireland poverty and single parent rates are the fault of the government and in the US both are the fault of black people?

Foxtrol

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The welfare state actively encourages single parenthood as a route to a free house and lifetime income supports, coupled with a toothless process to get fathers to actually pay for their children and an even more toothless approach to charging against welfare payments has created a subset of society where the men and women have nothing to lose and the women have a lot to gain by having unprotected sex with as many men as they can and having as many children as they can.

We're literally paying people to re-enact the last days of Rome.

Are you claiming kids from wealthy families are encouraged by the 'welfare state' to become single parents to get benefits and then end up becoming poor?

If not, this is just a nice rant but has nothing to do with my original point that those that are born into poorer families have a significantly higher chance of becoming single parents, no matter their race or what country they are born in.

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're saying in Ireland poverty and single parent rates are the fault of the government and in the US both are the fault of black people?

Don't be so reductive

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Don't be so reductive

That is what your posts are coming across as saying.

Feel free to explain what point you're trying to make.

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

I see, like many with your point of view, you're still resorting to strawman arguments. You just can't actually deal with the points I'm making.

The worldwide statistics show the connection between poverty and single parenthood (just like poverty and crime).

Trying to tie these things to be due to race is just lazy and simply racist but I'm not surprised to see that here at this stage.

Is strawman your favorite word or something ? You seem to use it for anyone that doesn't agree with you, and proves you wrong.

We all know ur incredibly biased and at times willfully stupid it just undermine s everything you say at this stage.

Ohh your back to calling people that don't agree with you racist again? you are going in circles at this point

Black people make up 12-13% of the pop but are responsible for well over half of the violent crime in the us.

To you that's strawman to the rest of us it's a FACT.

Let's see what excuses you can come for that statistic this time or what mental gymnastics you can do to blame white people for this stat in some round about way.

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

That is what your posts are coming across as saying.

Feel free to explain what point you're trying to make.

Or you're just misunderstanding the post on purpose because you haven't an adequate retort, seems to be your go too tactic when called out.

Everyone else can read between the lines in terms of what the post means but you seem to need everything broken down to a ridiculous extent.. makes debating you very tedious.

Danzy

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're saying in Ireland poverty and single parent rates are the fault of the government and in the US both are the fault of black people?

Lol.

I know you are serious though, that doesn't mean you are bring malicious deliberately acting out.

It's your faith blocking you from seeing things.

Foxtrol

Cupatae wrote: »

Is strawman your favorite word or something ? You seem to use it for anyone that doesn't agree with you, and proves you wrong.

We all know ur incredibly biased and at times willfully stupid it just undermine s everything you say at this stage.

Ohh your back to calling people that don't agree with you racist again? you are going in circles at this point

Black people make up 12-13% of the pop but are responsible for well over half of the violent crime in the us.

To you that's strawman to the rest of us it's a FACT.

Let's see what excuses you can come for that statistic this time or what mental gymnastics you can do to blame white people for this stat in some round about way.

I'd prefer not to use it that often but the strawman seems the only approach posters with your mindset have. You argue what you hoped I'd say rather than what I did. Example being your last post riddled with claims that I don't think black people can do wrong, which simply isnt the case.

The difference between our viewpoints is that my view is that though there is personal choice involved, the driver of crime/single motherhood is poverty, while you feel it is due to race. Your perspective ignores that poverty is shown to be linked to both worldwide, not race.

No one is arguing with your data point being a fact but it ignores all context. If you want to flip things, white people commit significantly higher rates of corporate and white collar crime than any other. According to the FBI, the annual cost of street crime is $15 billion compared to nearly $1 trillion for white-collar crime. Are you claiming there is also something inherently wrong with white people or is their situation a driver for their high crime statistics?

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd prefer not to use it that often but the strawman seems the only approach posters with your mindset have. You argue what you hoped I'd say rather than what I did. Example being your last post riddled with claims that I don't think black people can do wrong, which simply isnt the case.

The difference between our viewpoints is that my view is that though there is personal choice involved, the driver of crime/single motherhood is poverty, while you feel it is due to race. Your perspective ignores that poverty is shown to be linked to both worldwide, not race.

No one is arguing with your data point being a fact but it ignores all context. If you want to flip things, white people commit significantly higher rates of corporate and white collar crime than any other. According to the FBI, the annual cost of street crime is $15 billion compared to nearly $1 trillion for white-collar crime. Are you claiming there is also something inherently wrong with white people or is their situation a driver for their high crime statistics?

The difference between our viewpoints is that you are looking at everything thru BLM tinted glasses, I look at em logically and fairly and call it as it is.. you constantly try to deflect away from anything negative for black people, you never assign any blame for them and constantly use white people as a scapegoat for all there problems

No one is saying white people are saints or trying to blame our white collar crime on another race tho, that crime and statistic is owned..Unlike what you relentlessly try to do for black crime.

Foxtrol

Cupatae wrote: »

Or you're just misunderstanding the post on purpose because you haven't an adequate retort, seems to be your go too tactic when called out.

Everyone else can read between the lines in terms of what the post means but you seem to need everything broken down to a ridiculous extent.. makes debating you very tedious.

It is difficult for me because posters tie themselves in such knots trying to make the racist things post appear not quite as racist and the result are posts of vague nonsense.

You're probably well used to 'reading between the lines' and dealing with 'dog whistles', however it isn't so easy for us folks that aren't initiated.

Foxtrol

Cupatae wrote: »

The difference between our viewpoints is that you are looking at everything thru BLM tinted glasses, I look at em logically and fairly and call it as it is.. you constantly try to deflect away from anything negative for black people, you never assign any blame for them and constantly use white people as a scapegoat for all there problems

No one is saying white people are saints or trying to blame our white collar crime on another race tho, that crime and statistic is owned..Unlike what you relentlessly try to do for black crime.

What do you mean it is owned? Are there marches against white collar crime in white communities? Are leaders of white communities speaking out against it on a consistent basis rather than other topics impacting white communities? Are white people expected to sort out white-collar crime before they speak about any other types of crime?

BattleCorp

Foxtrol wrote: »

What do you mean it is owned? Are there marches against white collar crime in white communities? Are leaders of white communities speaking out against it on a consistent basis rather than other topics impacting white communities? Are white people expected to sort out white-collar crime before they speak about any other types of crime?

You do realise that white collar crime is a type of crime and not something solely committed by white people? White collar crime appears to be very prevalent in Africa and most often carried out by politicians over there. Hard to blame whitey in that case.

Foxtrol

BattleCorp wrote: »

You do realise that white collar crime is a type of crime and not something solely committed by white people?

If you read my posts fully, you'd see I'm fully aware.

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you want to flip things, white people commit significantly higher rates of corporate and white collar crime than any other. According to the FBI, the annual cost of street crime is $15 billion compared to nearly $1 trillion for white-collar crime.