Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

Rodin

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Is the jersey name thing voluntary for the footballers?

Any footballer brave enough to stand up against this will be branded a racist and be hounded by leftists.

Of course it's not voluntary.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Common knowledge. You’ll figure it out.

No, I would argue it's an empty, utterly meaningless term. Hence my question to you.

Overheal

Akesh wrote: »

What is the point of his question so if all white people aren't the same?

Overheal is just trying to tell us white people are bad. We get it.

Some people have a serious issue with warped altruism.

No? I want to know when white people were ever oppressed by people of color?

Is this your way of accepting that, they never were? BCE Egypt, maybe? No real period of the Common Era?

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

No, I would argue it's an empty, utterly meaningless term. Hence my question to you.

It has meaning, which you can argue in a forum about semantics I guess. You don’t have a question for me; you clearly already have the answer to it.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

It has meaning, which you can argue in a forum about semantics I guess. You don’t have a question for me; you clearly already have the answer to it.

You mentioned, in the context of "white" people being oppressed. So, what does that mean? Surely you define that, given it's basis for your argument here?

DelaneyIn

Police have said no criminal offence took place when a banner reading “White Lives Matter Burnley” was towed past the stadium by an aircraft during Monday night’s Premier League game between Manchester City and Burnley.

The incident “caused offence to many people in Lancashire and beyond”, a senior officer said on Tuesday, as the stunt was blamed on individuals from a group of football hooligans connected with Burnley.

However, Lancashire police said that after assessing all the information available surrounding the incident, the force had concluded “that there are no criminal offences that have been disclosed at this time”.

“We will continue to work with our partners at the football club and within the local authority,” added Ch Supt Russ Procter.

The force said it had liaised with Greater Manchester police, the Aviation Authority and the Crown Prosecution Service over the course of the day.

The banner was trailed in the sky above the Etihad Stadium in Manchester moments after players and staff had taken a knee in support of the Black Lives Matter movement.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/23/police-to-investigate-burnley-white-lives-matter-aircraft-banner

Black Lives Matter: Police get on their knees.
White Lives Matter: Police investigate hate crime.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Overheal wrote: »

No? I want to know when white people were ever oppressed by people of color?

Is this your way of accepting that, they never were? BCE Egypt, maybe? No real period of the Common Era?

You’re always on here giving time limits on things. You were the same in the gone with the wind ban thread. Everything is a time limit...so here’s one for you. What race is responsible for the modern slave trade RIGHT NOW?

If you had half an idea you’d know that not all white people are responsible for a few who dealt in the slave trade a few hundred years ago and that whites were bought and sold and more often than not treated far worse. The Irish were treated far worse than black slaves because they were worth a fraction of the price.

But none of that matters to you. You have these blinkers on, white bad, black man good, black lives matter, anyone who thinks otherwise = racist. You’re always the first one on here banging on about looking up the history books, do us all a favour and look up the history yourself.

Sean.3516

My objection to the slogan Black Lives Matter isn't that I disagree with the slogan. It's the implication of the slogan which is that there are a significant amount of people in western countries who believe black lives don't matter.

This is an absolute myth. The USA is not a racist country. The UK is not a racist country. Ireland is not a racist country. Are there racists in all three of those countries? Yes. But not enough that one should fear to be black.

Worth saying that statistical analysis shows that blacks are not disproportionately shot by police in the US since that's what started all this rubbish off.

Worried about racism? Try being black in one of the north eastern (arab populated) parts of Africa, or in the Middle East or Asia. Blacks are still systemically mistreated in this part go the world.

Also the organisation Black Lives Matter is just awful in every way.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

My objection to the slogan Black Lives Matter isn't that I disagree with the slogan. It's the implication of the slogan which is that there are a significant amount of people in western countries who believe black lives don't matter.

This is an absolute myth. The USA is not a racist country. The UK is not a racist country. Ireland is not a racist country. Are there racists in all three of those countries? Yes. But not enough that one should fear to be black.

Worth saying that statistical analysis shows that blacks are not disproportionately shot by police in the US since that's what started all this rubbish off.

Worried about racism? Try being black in one of the north eastern (arab populated) parts of Africa, or in the Middle East or Asia. Blacks are still systemically mistreated in this part go the world.

In fact blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot at by police than whites. So I’m not sure what misinformation you are trying to sow

Rodney Bathgate

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

^^


https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1275029296290168834

Nothing to see here. The alleged perpetrator is a person of colour. By definition he cannot be racist.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Sean.3516 wrote: »

My objection to the slogan Black Lives Matter isn't that I disagree with the slogan. It's the implication of the slogan which is that there are a significant amount of people in western countries who believe black lives don't matter.

This is an absolute myth. The USA is not a racist country. The UK is not a racist country. Ireland is not a racist country. Are there racists in all three of those countries? Yes. But not enough that one should fear to be black.

Worth saying that statistical analysis shows that blacks are not disproportionately shot by police in the US since that's what started all this rubbish off.

Worried about racism? Try being black in one of the north eastern (arab populated) parts of Africa, or in the Middle East or Asia. Blacks are still systemically mistreated in this part go the world.

This is an excellent post.

I’m the same. I do not disagree with the slogan “black lives matter” in fact, how could you argue against it? If you accept those words at face value it’s a great message. My problem is the group it’s attached to. The “BLM” movement.

You can also see the hysteria by those same people when someone files a “white lives matter” banner over a football ground. The shrieking and overreacting is amazing.

Rodney Bathgate

Rodin wrote: »

Of course it's not voluntary.

Disgusting.

Foxtrol

Sean.3516 wrote: »

My objection to the slogan Black Lives Matter isn't that I disagree with the slogan. It's the implication of the slogan which is that there are a significant amount of people in western countries who believe black lives don't matter.

Though massively falling the number of people that the slogan infuriates seems pretty significant, including on this thread.

This is an absolute myth. The USA is not a racist country. The UK is not a racist country. Ireland is not a racist country. Are there racists in all three of those countries? Yes. But not enough that one should fear to be black.

Any statistical evidence to back up calling that 'a myth' regarding the US?

Worth saying that statistical analysis shows that blacks are not disproportionately shot by police in the US since that's what started all this rubbish off.

What started all this off was a man being murdered by 4 cops by being choked for 9 minutes while he begged for his life and them then being let walk free for several days.

Worried about racism? Try being black in one of the north eastern (arab populated) parts of Africa, or in the Middle East or Asia. Blacks are still systemically mistreated in this part go the world.

Ridiculous logic, that is like saying everyone should have stayed quiet about what the British did in the north because there were other people in the world more oppressed at the time.

Also the organisation Black Lives Matter is just awful in every way.

You can dislike an organisation, while supporting their point - see N.I., Palestine etc etc

iamstop

I wonder how many people on here bashing the BLM movement know anything about COINTELPRO and realise that the exact same tactics they used against the Black Panthers is and has been employed against the BLM movement?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

I know most people will not read up on it on the link I proved and still argue against it.

Foxtrol

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You can also see the hysteria by those same people when someone files a “white lives matter” banner over a football ground. The shrieking and overreacting is amazing.

It should have been treated with laughter due to the embarrassing levels of fragility it showed from the people that paid for it, like anyone that uses that phrase of 'all lives matter'.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

In fact blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot at by police than whites. So I’m not sure what misinformation you are trying to sow

Do you think levels of criminality might have anything to do with that?

Foxtrol

iamstop wrote: »

I wonder how many people on here bashing the BLM movement know anything about COINTELPRO and realise that the exact same tactics they used against the Black Panthers is and has been employed against the BLM movement?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

I know most people will not read up on it on the link I proved and still argue against it.

It has been happening since the dawn of civil rights protests and the media go hand in hand with it. People forget how much MLK was hated by many Americans when he was alive due to it.

You see the media now from the focusing on a few pockets of rioters rather than the hundreds of thousands peacefully protesting to jumping on stories like cops getting poisoned at Shake Shack when it turns out to be completely fabricated. Same with the coverage of the peaceful protests during the NFL - there is never a right way to protest

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you think levels of criminality might have anything to do with that?

Do you think racial bias might have anything to do with that?

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think levels of criminality might have anything to do with that?

Do you think the level of criminality has anything to do with the history of slavery, disenfranchisement, systematic racism and funneling ridiculous amounts of money into policing and prison system while starving education, housing, social welfare, crime prevention, and community development?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Do you think racial bias might have anything to do with that?

Not really..

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Foxtrol wrote: »

It has been happening since the dawn of civil rights protests and the media go hand in hand with it. People forget how much MLK was hated by many Americans when he was alive due to it.

You see the media now from the focusing on a few pockets of rioters rather than the hundreds of thousands peacefully protesting to jumping on stories like cops getting poisoned at Shake Shack when it turns out to be completely fabricated. Same with the coverage of the peaceful protests during the NFL - there is never a right way to protest

“A few rioters”

Lol. Good luck.

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

In fact blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot at by police than whites. So I’m not sure what misinformation you are trying to sow

And you actually think that statistic proves the police have a racial bias against blacks?

Let me explain a few simple things. Police are more likely to shoot anybody (regardless of race) when that suspect is armed and/or committing a violent crime. The majority of those suspects happen to be black.

A US Department of Justice study found that in the 75 largest counties by population in the USA, blacks commit 62% of robberies, 57% of murders and 45% of assaults.

Given those stats, common sense would tell you that if the police were not disproportionately shooting blacks, they wouldn't be doing their jobs.

However if you want to actually find out whether there is a racial bias in police shootings, you have to control for the disparity in crimes committed between the races. ie. When an officer is confronted with a suspect who is armed and violent, is the officer more likely to shoot if the suspect is black or white? That's what you have to find out.
In 2016, a Washington State University study did just that and found that police were much more hesitant to shoot blacks than whites. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9133.12187

So no, the police do not have a racial bias against blacks.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you think the level of criminality has anything to do with the history of slavery, disenfranchisement,

A bit..

systematic racism and funneling ridiculous amounts of money into policing and prison system while starving education, housing, social welfare, crime prevention, and community development?

Not really..

Foxtrol

Hunky Monster wrote: »

“A few rioters”

Lol. Good luck.

The number of rioters/looters is tiny when you compare it to the number of people peacefully protesting around the US.

What the media have done is akin to someone going out in Dublin on a Saturday night filming a few arguments and scuffles and painting the picture that it is the wild west. You've either been taking in by it or always wanted to see the worst.

The number of videos of police overreacting is far greater than those of 'rioters'.

AbusesToilets

Sean.3516 wrote: »

And you actually think that statistic proves the police have a racial bias against blacks?

Let me explain a few simple things. Police are more likely to shoot anybody (regardless of race) when that suspect is armed and/or committing a violent crime. The majority of those suspects happen to be black.

A US Department of Justice study found that in the 75 largest counties by population in the USA, blacks commit 62% of robberies, 57% of murders and 45% of assaults.

Given those stats, common sense would tell you that if the police were not disproportionately shooting blacks, they wouldn't be doing their jobs.

However if you want to actually find out whether there is a racial bias in police shootings, you have to control for the disparity in crimes committed between the races. ie. When an officer is confronted with a suspect who is armed and violent, is the officer more likely to shoot if the suspect is black or white? That's what you have to find out.
In 2016, a Washington State University study did just that and found that police were much more hesitant to shoot blacks than whites. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9133.12187

So no, the police do not have a racial bias against blacks.

Go way with your facts. They have no power here

jackboy

Foxtrol wrote: »

The number of videos of police overreacting is far greater than those of 'rioters'.

Why ‘rioters’? Do you believe that the riots were not real?

Sean.3516

Foxtrol wrote: »

Though massively falling the number of people that the slogan infuriates seems pretty significant, including on this thread.

People have the right to be infuriated when they are accused of being racist for not supporting a particular political movement.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Any statistical evidence to back up calling that 'a myth' regarding the US?

Yes, I cited my evidence in an above post in response to someone else.

Foxtrol wrote: »

What started all this off was a man being murdered by 4 cops by being choked for 9 minutes while he begged for his life and them then being let walk free for several days.

Yes, and the fact that people not familiar with the evidence or the stats concluded from this one incident (and a handful of other incidents) that blacks are being systematically killed by police which they aren't. And the fact that some "mostly peaceful" people wanted a new TV from Target but didn't want to pay for it.

Protests against police brutality and in favour of better police training would have been justified. Not mass rioting over a loosely based racial narrative for which no evidence exists.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Ridiculous logic, that is like saying everyone should have stayed quiet about what the British did in the north because there were other people in the world more oppressed at the time.

Not really since I haven't conceded the point that blacks are systemically mistreated in the West they way Catholics were in Northern Ireland.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You can dislike an organisation, while supporting their point - see N.I., Palestine etc etc

I don't support their point. I don't support their organisation. I do agree with their slogan which was picked for a very specific reason: The people who run Black Lives Matter know that most people agree that black lives matter. The picked an initial proposition that they knew 99% of people agree with and then shoehorned into that slogan a bunch of other stuff like the "systemic racism" narrative and the cultural marxism rubbish they talk about on their website.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

And you actually think that statistic proves the police have a racial bias against blacks?

Let me explain a few simple things. Police are more likely to shoot anybody (regardless of race) when that suspect is armed and/or committing a violent crime. The majority of those suspects happen to be black.

A US Department of Justice study found that in the 75 largest counties by population in the USA, blacks commit 62% of robberies, 57% of murders and 45% of assaults.

Given those stats, common sense would tell you that if the police were not disproportionately shooting blacks, they wouldn't be doing their jobs.

However if you want to actually find out whether there is a racial bias in police shootings, you have to control for the disparity in crimes committed between the races. ie. When an officer is confronted with a suspect who is armed and violent, is the officer more likely to shoot if the suspect is black or white? That's what you have to find out.
In 2016, a Washington State University study did just that and found that police were much more hesitant to shoot blacks than whites. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9133.12187

So no, the police do not have a racial bias against blacks.

That just tells me blacks are over policed.

Go look at the Closure rates for those crimes.

Foxtrol

jackboy wrote: »

Why ‘rioters’? Do you believe that the riots were not real?

Because that is what the poster I responded to called them.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really..

So you're saying that that crime wouldn't increase at all if Ireland tomorrow slashed social welfare to practically nothing, reduced the minimum wage dramatically, cut practically all other benefits, and kicked people out of their subsidised homes?