Best Career : Employment rate and Pay

Top chief

Top chief wrote: »

................ Over 33k payed In tax is the killer 4,724 take home pay a month .

Top chief wrote: »

Would probably need to put 1k a month into your own penison for a decent one then paying a mortgage on top of that another 1k or more gone not left with much after that and still have to pay house Bill's, and run a car

€4700 net, €4100 after throwing €1k into a pension, €3100 after the €1k mortgage............ take another €1k out for car loan/PCP, tax, insurance, maintenance and fuel and there's €2100 left for food and bills .......... that's loads ........ adter saving a few hundred/month for a holiday most folk could easily save €1k/month with what's left over unless they are gambling it or putting it up their nose or spending it on handbags etc.

FFVII

why are you talking about a figure nearly nobody gets

FFVII

FFVII wrote: »

why are you talking about a figure nearly nobody gets

The topic is " Best Career : Employment rate and Pay" ....... not much point talking about what most folk are on really is there.
Quite a few folk with experience in various sectors would be on a very decent wedge.......... that's what folk want to talk about in here surely.

Astro127

Augeo wrote: »

€4700 net, €4100 after throwing €1k into a pension, €3100 after the €1k mortgage............ take another €1k out for car loan/PCP, tax, insurance, maintenance and fuel and there's €2100 left for food and bills .......... that's loads ........ adter saving a few hundred/month for a holiday most folk could easily save €1k/month with what's left over unless they are gambling it or putting it up their nose or spending it on handbags etc.

What does everyone think is a good salary if 95% of people are not getting 5k a month ?

I would think anyone on 900 after tax a week not in a stressful job is doing very well , sure theres management jobs on way less and they can be stressful let alone doctors and solicitors.

Astro127

Astro127 wrote: »

........

I would think anyone on 900 after tax a week not in a stressful job is doing very well...........

That's €70k gross and paying €500/month into a pension.
What % of the workforce are on €70k?

Treppen

22 year old graduate starting on €50k !
That's not bad.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-12-5117489-Jul2020/

Treppen

Treppen wrote: »

22 year old graduate starting on €50k !......

A very frugal eater....... Groceries: €120

Good to see someone that age on a decent wedge with their head screwed on, if they've €40k saved up at year end they'll be in a great position really.

Astro127

Treppen wrote: »

22 year old graduate starting on €50k !
That's not bad.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-12-5117489-Jul2020/

Most diaries on that thing are all software engineers Haha, might have to go back and study that part time .

Creamy Goodness

Astro127 wrote: »

Most diaries on that thing are all software engineers Haha, might have to go back and study that part time .

yup, but it's really kind of self-selecting. Majority of people who are going to apply to be on these things are going to be the high earners and low outgoings. I honestly think his groceries is a little low (€30) for a young healthy adult and his take-away choices and how he works e.g. skipping lunches to "get more work done" and left over pizza is stereotypical "coder". It sounds like misery to me but still fair play to him for landing that type of money right out of college. When I graduated ~10 years ago ~25k was the norm.

Astro127

They are making more then a pilot, which is crazy doubt it's that hard to become a software engineer vs a pilot, doctor and solicitor .

HerrKuehn

Astro127 wrote: »

They are making more then a pilot, which is crazy doubt it's that hard to become a software engineer vs a pilot, doctor and solicitor .

Well, of the 4 jobs listed there, the pilot is the only one that can be easily automated. Ironically, by one of the other 3 listed jobs
But which one is it?
a) doctor
b) solicitor
c) software engineer

Iscreamkone

Astro127 wrote: »

They are making more then a pilot, which is crazy doubt it's that hard to become a software engineer vs a pilot, doctor and solicitor .

In fairness I wouldn't regard a pilot as being a difficult job or needing too much intelligence. Certainly not up there with a doctor/solicitor/software engineer.

The difficulty in getting trained as a pilot (cost) limits the amount entering the profession and thus hikes up the pay.

I know pilots that wouldn't have got into an Arts degree in University but had access to cash to train as a pilot.

Astro127

Iscreamkone wrote: »

In fairness I wouldn't regard a pilot as being a difficult job or needing too much intelligence. Certainly not up there with a doctor/solicitor/software engineer.

The difficulty in getting trained as a pilot (cost) limits the amount entering the profession and thus hikes up the pay.

I know pilots that wouldn't have got into an Arts degree in University but had access to cash to train as a pilot.

So all I need is loan of 80 to 100k to become a pilot and thr rest is easy? a lot to study and trying not to kill 200 or so passengers onboard.

I do see your point
I wouldn't want a stressful job like that.
The money isnt that great at the end of the day and being away from family isnt worth it .

dinneenp

Treppen wrote: »

22 year old graduate starting on €50k !
That's not bad.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-12-5117489-Jul2020/

Software Engineering does seem to be a job that comes up again and again & is in big demand & forecast to be in even bigger demand.

Carl D

Not sure if best career or not but not a hard job to do . Prison Officer dont need a degree or anything more time off then most jobs other then teachers. make up to 1k a week or more if want extra hours .seems like a handy number if dont mind 12 hours shifts and working nights. Good pension aswell

Treppen

Treppen wrote: »

22 year old graduate starting on €50k !
That's not bad.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-12-5117489-Jul2020/

Eventually you accept graduate teachers don't have it bad. At last!

Teachers: €37000 over 9 months is €4110 per month. More with options to correct exams.

The Engineer: €50000 over 12 months is €4116 per month. Any extra hours will be unpaid.

LilacNails

Carl D wrote: »

Not sure if best career or not but not a hard job to do . Prison Officer dont need a degree or anything more time off then most jobs other then teachers. make up to 1k a week or more if want extra hours .seems like a handy number if dont mind 12 hours shifts and working nights. Good pension aswell

Be fairly boring and depressing tho....?

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Eventually you accept graduate teachers don't have it bad. At last!

Teachers: €37000 over 9 months is €4110 per month. More with options to correct exams.

You know that most teachers will start out on part time roles earning nothing near the figures you mention for a good few years before they have a hope of getting a permanent post.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know that most teachers will start out on part time roles earning nothing near the figures you mention for a good few years before they have a hope of getting a permanent post.

Whataboutery.

There are graduate teachers who get full-time hours which can lead to CID.

Makes the strike action lead by teachers all the more cynical then, making the issue out of the salary when the actual problems faced by new grads is lack of permanency.

Why is the strikes and threats of strike not related to the lack of permanency then?

mariaalice

salonfire wrote: »

Whataboutery.

There are graduate teachers who get full-time hours which can lead to CID.

Makes the strike action lead by teachers all the more cynical then, making the issue out of the salary when the actual problems faced by new grads is lack of permanency.

Why is the strikes and threats of strike not related to the lack of permanency then?

The obsession with teachers and the like is borderline peculiar.

To answer the op political advisor plus it would be a very interesting job.

Special advisers are placed on the Principal Officer scale, which begins at €79,401 and goes up to €91,624.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

The obsession with teachers and the like is borderline peculiar.

Thanks!

I'm happy to challenge and correct the narrative of teachers when I can. It's good to have some people act as a counter level to the misinformation propaganda campaign of teachers and unions.

History Queen

salonfire wrote: »

Thanks!

I'm happy to challenge and correct the narrative of teachers when I can. It's good to have some people act as a counter level to the misinformation propaganda campaign of teachers and unions.

Casualisation of the profession and pay equality have been the top issues pay wise. You not understanding the issues is not the same as misinformation.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

................
To answer the op political advisor plus it would be a very interesting job.

Special advisers are placed on the Principal Officer scale, which begins at €79,401 and goes up to €91,624.

What would a special advisers CV look like before they get the gig?

mariaalice

Augeo wrote: »

What would a special advisers CV look like before they get the gig?

Journalists or policy advisors in NGOs and the like.

ethical

Frightening and sad really the bad press teachers get in this forum.If the job,conditions etc are all that mighty why not re train for a position?

You might find ,once you are trained that the idea of getting a full time,by that I mean a full timetable quite difficult to come by.

The usual career path is as follows,in year one you may spend the year running around doing a couple of hours subbing in a number of different schools.This is not financially viable but has to be done in order to get teaching experience.This can go on for a number of years if you are willing to stick at it.Mind you the reality is that you will emigrate after 1 or 2 years of this and will get a worthwhile post overseas and with flights paid home twice a year plus paid for furnished accomodation.

On the other hand supposing you stay in Ireland you may pick up a Maternity Leave which will give you 3 months of a full timetable ,after this you have to job search again and perhaps may not get anything for the rest of the year.

Around about year 3 or 4 ,if you are lucky enough,your local ETB will advertise a 3 or 4 hour contract for which you will apply and if you are lucky enough (know the interview panel,brown envelopes etc,and NOT compete against a son or daughter or other relative of the panel),you may find yourself with a spanking new job,3 hours per week for the whole year!!!!!! If they like you ,you may (after interviewing again,(gotta feed the interview panel yearly),) be successful and low and behold after 2 years you now qualify for a CID a contract of indefinite duration,mighty stuff,your own job,3 hours a week,imagine the richess this brings your way.....imagine running down to the Bank asking them for a loan or mortgage and telling them you have a job....3 hours a week!!!,wouldnt they laugh at you and perhaps call the local mental institution as with all due respect this sort of teacher does not exist.....or does it.Most certainly in the ETB world it does.And by the ways when the bank asks you what do you get per month,tell them that after 4 months you had not received any money as they were still processing your details(yet you have been teaching since day1 of your contract)

Now tell me what other profession treats its workers like this.I would NOT encourage any family member to go near teaching as a profession as what I have outlined above is what usually happens!

This is it

ethical wrote: »

Long post.snipped

I know a few primary school teachers amd the above would be unusual rather than the norm based on their experiences.

Don't get me wrong, they had a tough start, and I think teaching in Ireland is incredibly difficult with the financial restraints, lack of class support, etc. and spending money from their own pockets. None though have had it as bad as you describe above.

ethical

ethical wrote: »

.....................

Around about year 3 or 4 ,if you are lucky enough,your local ETB will advertise a 3 or 4 hour contract for which you will apply and if you are lucky enough (know the interview panel,brown envelopes etc,and...................

.And by the ways when the bank asks you what do you get per month,tell them that after U]I][I]4 months you had not received any money as they were still processing your details[/I][/I[/U(yet you have been teaching since day1 of your contract)

.............

Corruption (bolded piece) and incompetence (underlined) in the public service :eek:

I've heard it claimed on boards.ie that the non frontline staff in the HSE are all hardworking and incredibly good at their roles, maybe all the useless folk are in the Dept of Education?

ethical

ethical wrote: »

Frightening and sad really the bad press teachers get in this forum.

What bad press? I pointed out grad teachers are on the the same - if not better - monthly salary than a software engineer at Google.

ethical wrote: »

If the job,conditions etc are all that mighty why not re train for a position?

Because I focused in another sector in which I built a career. I have no interest in going back to study further.

Regretfully, when I was 16 I swallowed the teachers propaganda thinking it was terribly paid. Hard to believe otherwise at that age with RTE's Ingrid Miley breathlessly reporting the hooting and hollering going on every Easter at the conferences. Were I that age again and with what I know now, I would have considered teaching.

In another cynical ploy by a union, INTO do not allow public access to the salary scales and allowances of Primary Teachers. Why would this be do you think?

ethical wrote: »

You might find ,once you are trained that the idea of getting a full time,by that I mean a full timetable quite difficult to come by.

Less of an issue in Primary Level and if that is the case at Second Level, it shows how cynical the unions' ploy is focusing on pay rather than hours.
Leveraging the part-time hours of new teachers to try justify increased salaries.

ethical wrote: »

I would NOT encourage any family member to go near teaching as a profession as what I have outlined above is what usually happens!

A lot of teachers on Boards say this. What they don't suggest is any alternative that offers the same pay and conditions as teachers. Even on a thread discussing the best careers.

micah537

Well the best career certainly isn't an Architect. 5 years qualified and get €42,000 on crappy projects that rarely require any imagination. Well I was warned and didn't listen.

Oldest brother is a GP with a good life but for all the studying and pressure it's not that great.

Other brother is a Chartered Valuations Surveyor dealing with Compulsory Purchases Orders. Base wage is/was €70,000ish commission is insane though. €250k a year is a bad year. Works from home most days and never seems under pressure, three day weekend. 7 weeks holidays, phone, laptop, health insurance, pension etc all covered. His fiancee doesn't work, both have cool cars (new S-class and 2 year old 640d, some old powerful weekend cars) really nice house. Gives our parents a good retirement.

He says you need to be either selling hotels, working in investments or doing CPO's to make anything decent as a surveyor as most of the sector pays crap. First two years were meant to be pretty crappy.

A secondary school friend works designing or developing video games. Seems to have a nice life, enjoys his work and money seems good.

Iscreamkone

It is quite difficult to be an employee earning over €100k.

The majority who earn above this amount are self-employed I'd say. (I'm not saying all self employed earn this much)

AndrewJRenko

mariaalice wrote: »

r.

To answer the op political advisor plus it would be a very interesting job.

Special advisers are placed on the Principal Officer scale, which begins at €79,401 and goes up to €91,624.

Barry Cowan's advisor might take a different view on it being the best job.

When the Minister loses their job, so does the advisor.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Whataboutery.

There are graduate teachers who get full-time hours which can lead to CID.

Makes the strike action lead by teachers all the more cynical then, making the issue out of the salary when the actual problems faced by new grads is lack of permanency.

Why is the strikes and threats of strike not related to the lack of permanency then?

I'm confused now, are you calling on teachers to be striking MORE?

Carl D

salonfire wrote: »

Eventually you accept graduate teachers don't have it bad. At last!

Teachers: €37000 over 9 months is €4110 per month. More with options to correct exams.

The Engineer: €50000 over 12 months is €4116 per month. Any extra hours will be unpaid.

Dont no any teacher on that much let even after 20 years on the job a principal on 70k a year would be making 3,924 after tax .
981 a week

Software engineer is only only in his 20s and is already on 50k after tax 3 066 a month , 766
There salary is going to go up pretty quickly would be on way more then 981 a week in 20 years that's for sure .teacher had to wait 20 years to get that much .

JimmyVik

the-island-man wrote: »

I am a Software Engineer with over 10 years professional experience in .NET technologies. I have spent the majority of them years trying to chase the money. I have hopped around a fair bit doing a mixture permanent and contract jobs. I have never taken a new job without it paying more than the previous one.

Eventually it has caught up with me. The current role involves more stress and confrontation than I would ever care to encounter.

I really enjoy working out how to design systems and debug issues but before you think about Software Engineering do consider the following two points:

1. Similar to most office jobs you will spend the majority of your working life sat at a desk.
2. Depending on what companies you join you may get put under pressure by managers\customers who don't understand or care about the complexities of Software Development

Finally no matter what career you think of doing before the money gets in your veins have a little listen to this piece by Alan Watts:

https://youtu.be/fYNShs6I4HU

Just read this and you could be me talking.
I chased the money in IT for years.
Its not what it used to be and I find myself burnt out at 40 years of age.
I used to love what I did. About 10 years ago it seemed to change and I have gone to the other extreme. Hate it.
I would love a job stacking shelves or something.
But I have decided if I keep up where I am for another 5 years I could just retire and forget about any kind of working stress after that.
The money is great but the job satisfaction went away a little while ago.
If I retired I could actually work picking strawberries somewhere if I felt like it, or just go on a holiday at days notice. So different. ah the thoughts of it.

Carl D

LilacNails wrote: »

Be fairly boring and depressing tho....?

And sitting at a desk isnt ? Or having a stressful job like a doctor, I'm just saying for what they do and hoildays they can get . And money side and pension is very good , starting salary 47k would be looking at 80k if not more down the road .

History Queen

salonfire wrote: »

What bad press? I pointed out grad teachers are on the the same - if not better - monthly salary than a software engineer at Google.



Because I focused in another sector in which I built a career. I have no interest in going back to study further.

Regretfully, when I was 16 I swallowed the teachers propaganda thinking it was terribly paid. Hard to believe otherwise at that age with RTE's Ingrid Miley breathlessly reporting the hooting and hollering going on every Easter at the conferences. Were I that age again and with what I know now, I would have considered teaching.

In another cynical ploy by a union, INTO do not allow public access to the salary scales and allowances of Primary Teachers. Why would this be do you think?




Less of an issue in Primary Level and if that is the case at Second Level, it shows how cynical the unions' ploy is focusing on pay rather than hours.
Leveraging the part-time hours of new teachers to try justify increased salaries.




A lot of teachers on Boards say this. What they don't suggest is any alternative that offers the same pay and conditions as teachers. Even on a thread discussing the best careers.

The salary scales for teachers are publicly available. Teachers are paid over 12 months not 9.

Below applies to second level, I'm not sure what the story is at primary level.
Full time/full hours positions take between 3 and 8 years to secure generally (depends on subject/where you are in country/luck/interview skills/employability etc.) can be as short as two years can take much longer.


I took 4 years to get my full time full hours job (after 6 years in college) and am considered very lucky to have done so as my subjects are generally oversubscribed. Before I secured my CID I was subbing and travelling to schools over 3 hours away to get work. I often had to sign on and accept work that didn't cover my travel costs.

You don't undersstand the pay inequality issue if you think it is about part time hours. Newer entrants to teaching are disproportionately affected by two issues, the causualisation of the profession (bits of jobs/low hours) AND the reduced payscale (also the new pension scheme).

Huge benefit of teaching is the mostly family friendly hours as well as the fact that it is a stable income once you get established. You won't be rich but it's a middle of the road income given the qualifications involved.

JimmyVik

This is an interesting thread. Why has it become about teachers?

mariaalice

JimmyVik wrote: »

This is an interesting thread. Why has it become about teachers?

Because a fair few posters are obsessed with teachers followed by obsessions with the public services.

Creamy Goodness

JimmyVik wrote: »

This is an interesting thread. Why has it become about teachers?

because the original post asked what would the best career be in terms of salary, career progression and stress levels.

A teaching career fits nicely into this description for some.

JimmyVik

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

because the original post asked what would the best career be in terms of salary, career progression and stress levels.

A teaching career fits nicely into this description for some.

Fair point. But why does that require the thread turning into teacher bashing?

Astro127

Iscreamkone wrote: »

It is quite difficult to be an employee earning over €100k.


True, very few make 100k a year then again after tax you are coming out with only 60k , 5k a month still making a hell of a lot more then most people in Ireland.

Creamy Goodness

JimmyVik wrote: »

Fair point. But why does that require the thread turning into teacher bashing?

Hi you must be new to Ireland. We're a nation of begrudgers.

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

Eventually you accept graduate teachers don't have it bad. At last!

Teachers: €37000 over 9 months is €4110 per month. More with options to correct exams.

The Engineer: €50000 over 12 months is €4116 per month. Any extra hours will be unpaid.

Eventually ? I'm talking about a graduate software engineer, maybe have another look.

Consistently you are showing your ignorance of the teaching profession. I've never met any teacher age 22 starting out on the full whack 4k a month permanent position.

But ya sure, advise that software engineer he'd have been better off going into teaching. He'd look at you crooked and ask what medication you were taking.

Those chips on your shoulder really must go well with the mug of vinegar your drinking.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

........
I chased the money in IT for years............. 40 years of age.............
But I have decided if I keep up where I am for another 5 years I could just retire and forget about any kind of working stress after that............

The money must be incredible if retiring at 45 is an option, any pension can't be accessed until you are 50.

Treppen

JimmyVik wrote: »

This is an interesting thread. Why has it become about teachers?

Bitterness

wonski

Treppen wrote: »

Bitterness

Coupled with dividing rather average salary by 9 months for teachers like they have a choice over this to make it look like they earn 50k at start.

My sister is a teacher, but not in Ireland, subject to the same bull**** of how she only works 9 months.

Her holidays always fall on the most expensive time of the year for holidays, she does spend her own money and time to prepare some work for school. And she definitely has to spent some hours over the summer to do work.

Yet some think she should get seasonal work maybe to be respected by anti-teachers movement. And probably do it for free, since she is being paid by the govwrnment anyway lol.

JimmyVik

wonski wrote: »

Coupled with dividing rather average salary by 9 months for teachers like they have a choice over this to make it look like they earn 50k at start.

My sister is a teacher, but not in Ireland, subject to the same bull**** of how she only works 9 months.

Her holidays always fall on the most expensive time of the year for holidays, she does spend her own money and time to prepare some work for school. And she definitely has to spent some hours over the summer to do work.

Yet some think she should get seasonal work maybe to be respected by anti-teachers movement. And probably do it for free, since she is being paid by the govwrnment anyway lol.

In Greece they used to do a thing with wages where your employer would divide your years salary by 13 and then you get 2 payments in December.


Still 12 months salary but divided into 13 payments.
Recession happened and the whole world was complaining how the Greeks were getting 13 months salary and demanding that 1 months got taken off them.
The mob is blind.

mariaalice

The milieu a person inhabits has a lot to do with a job being stressful that plus being competent or believing themselves competent at the job. It often has nothing to do with the job its self per se.

A job could be stressful to one person and not to another and it is the same job with the same role and responsibility.

Ludikrus

Iscreamkone wrote: »

It is quite difficult to be an employee earning over €100k.

The majority who earn above this amount are self-employed I'd say. (I'm not saying all self employed earn this much)

I'm not sure that's true. Would be interesting to see some statistical analysis, I could be wrong. It's one hell of a business someone's got if they can pay themselves 100k.

Carl D

Carl D wrote: »

Dont no any teacher on that much let even after 20 years .

History Queen wrote: »

The salary scales for teachers are publicly available. Teachers are paid over 12 months not 9.

I'm talking about monthly salary. Teachers are paid for 9 months, spread over 12 months. That's why the summer holidays are not counted as holidays for teachers but because their salary is based on a 9 month year.

Therefore grad teachers are on the same monthly salary as the software engineer.

JimmyVik wrote: »

Fair point. But why does that require the thread turning into teacher bashing?

Who's bashing teachers? Stating the facts is not bashing anyone.

In a thread about the best paid career, teaching fits that bill; considering the monthly salary they have.