The current trend of removing cash is a serious mistake

makeorbrake

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Not to mention you’re handing over your money to a third party. We’ve all seen how the government can flick a switch and lock you in your own home/county. It’s not beyond the realms of belief that they’ll take full control of your bank account.

When they switch people over to a government run digital currency, this becomes even more seamless for them as there's no bank involved. You could literally have your wealth switched off in an instant.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

makeorbrake wrote: »

When they switch people over to a government run digital currency, this becomes even more seamless for them as there's no bank involved. You could literally have your wealth switched off in an instant.

You’d also be a lot lot poorer. There’s no such thing as leaving your car tax run out for a month, or your property tax, boom it’s gone when it’s due. No such thing as withdrawing €20 to give to the kids, they’ll want their cut and they’ll want to know exactly where it’s going. It’s by far the worst idea I’ve ever seen floated here yet there’s some gombeens on here that think it’s a great idea because “itLL StOp ORganIsed CrIMe”...

makeorbrake

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It’s by far the worst idea I’ve ever seen floated here yet there’s some gombeens on here that think it’s a great idea because “itLL StOp ORganIsed CrIMe”...

In an ideal world it makes a lot of sense. People in Ireland have known only relative stability and with that they think that nothing untoward can happen. However governments can turn wayward or simply get things wrong all the time - particularly if they have total power as they would do in this instance ..with no other alternative.

We're moving to a more digital world all the time - more so due to this covid saga. Digital currency makes sense so for me its just a matter of how long it takes to implement. Many central banks around the world are doing work on central bank controlled digital currencies right now.

I guess we need something similar that they don't control.

coinop

What an extremely tedious thread. The same arguments repeated ad nauseum, just like in the millions of other cash vs card threads on the internet. Arguing against the cashless society is like arguing against the introduction of cars in the early 20th century, or against the incoming tide. You can't stop progress.


Pros of cashless society

• Lower crime rates because there's no tangible money to steal
  
• Less money laundering because there's always a digital paper trail
  
• Less time and costs associated with handling, storing, and depositing paper money
  
• Easier currency exchange while traveling internationally

Cons of cashless society

• Exposes your personal information to a possible data breach
  
• If hackers drain your bank account, or you experience technical issues, you'll have no alternative source of money
  
• Those without bank accounts will struggle to keep up with evolving cashless technology
  
• Some may find it harder to control spending when they don't see physical cash leaving their hands

End of thread.

makeorbrake

coinop wrote: »

You can't stop progress

Indeed you cant and nor should anyone want to. However people should rightly question where something like this is headed and have their basic rights ring fenced.


On money laundering, that will continue as its already facilitated by big banking. The sham that is AML/KYC could reach epic proportions as they pry into even more of ordinary people's private financial data than ever before (under this false narrative about fighting crime and terrorism when its really about control).

If only there was some system that ran in parallel - outside of the influence of .gov. if you had to replicate cash in a digital format that's not the country's national currency, what would that look like?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

coinop wrote: »

What an extremely tedious thread. The same arguments repeated ad nauseum, just like in the millions of other cash vs card threads on the internet. Arguing against the cashless society is like arguing against the introduction of cars in the early 20th century, or against the incoming tide. You can't stop progress.


Pros of cashless society

• Lower crime rates because there's no tangible money to steal
  
• Less money laundering because there's always a digital paper trail
  
• Less time and costs associated with handling, storing, and depositing paper money
  
• Easier currency exchange while traveling internationally

Cons of cashless society

• Exposes your personal information to a possible data breach
  
• If hackers drain your bank account, or you experience technical issues, you'll have no alternative source of money
  
• Those without bank accounts will struggle to keep up with evolving cashless technology
  
• Some may find it harder to control spending when they don't see physical cash leaving their hands

End of thread.

Eh? Lower crime rates. Get a grip. Criminals ALWAYS ALWAYS find a way.

Less money laundering? Read above.

Less time and costs associated with cash? What do I care about that? End of the day a cashless society will drive MY cost of living up. I’m not worried about the banks profits.

Easier currency exchange? Most places you visit will take euros. Want dollars? It’s a 5 minute trip to the bank.

So what are the advantages again because your list is bull crap.

i_surge

coinop wrote: »

What an extremely tedious thread. The same arguments repeated ad nauseum, just like in the millions of other cash vs card threads on the internet. Arguing against the cashless society is like arguing against the introduction of cars in the early 20th century, or against the incoming tide. You can't stop progress.


Pros of cashless society

• Lower crime rates because there's no tangible money to steal
  
• Less money laundering because there's always a digital paper trail
  
• Less time and costs associated with handling, storing, and depositing paper money
  
• Easier currency exchange while traveling internationally

Cons of cashless society

• Exposes your personal information to a possible data breach
  
• If hackers drain your bank account, or you experience technical issues, you'll have no alternative source of money
  
• Those without bank accounts will struggle to keep up with evolving cashless technology
  
• Some may find it harder to control spending when they don't see physical cash leaving their hands

End of thread.

"Progress" is often regressive

i_surge

i_surge wrote: »

"Progress" is often regressive

Designing in known weaknesses

coinop

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Eh? Lower crime rates. Get a grip. Criminals ALWAYS ALWAYS find a way.

Yes, criminals will always find a way to rob the shop so why bother with security guards? We may as well just deliver the money to them, save them the hassle of even coming in. Why make life difficult, you know?

I won't be responding to any more smooth-brain arguments. Every single argument that is repeated in this 50 page thread is listed in my previous post.

i_surge

coinop wrote: »

Yes, criminals will always find a way to rob the shop so why bother with security guards? We may as well just deliver the money to them, save them the hassle of even coming in. Why make life difficult, you know?

I won't be responding to any more smooth-brain arguments. Every single argument that is repeated in this 50 page thread is listed in my previous post.

Username checks out as they say.

makeorbrake

coinop wrote: »

Yes, criminals will always find a way to rob the shop so why bother with security guards? Why make life difficult, you know?

Sure, but bear in mind that anti money laundering or anti crime measures have to be reasonable and should not encroach on the basic rights of ordinary people. Taking a carte blanche approach is not acceptable. AML/KYC is a current example - ordinary people don't realise the costs that come with it even though they end up paying for it. Its sold as fighting crime but in reality is all about financial surveillance and control.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

coinop wrote: »

Yes, criminals will always find a way to rob the shop so why bother with security guards? We may as well just deliver the money to them, save them the hassle of even coming in. Why make life difficult, you know?

I won't be responding to any more smooth-brain arguments. Every single argument that is repeated in this 50 page thread is listed in my previous post.

“Smooth brain”

Thanks.

You can’t rebuttal.

Overheal

makeorbrake wrote: »

Sure, but bear in mind that anti money laundering or anti crime measures have to be reasonable and should not encroach on the basic rights of ordinary people. Taking a carte blanche approach is not acceptable. AML/KYC is a current example - ordinary people don't realise the costs that come with it even though they end up paying for it. Its sold as fighting crime but in reality is all about financial surveillance and control.

Quite right. Governments run on taxes and are invested in ensuring they have a keen eye on commerce. It doesn't help that the black market is where you find some of the worst sorts - not just unregistered or stolen firearms and drugs etc. but child trafficking and more, incl. people hiring hits on people from what I understand. Nevermind all that unreported labor from those usually not qualified to work over the counter.

neutral guy

No worries guys,country which help multinationals avoid taxes never will be cashless.

Wanderer78

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Not to mention you’re handing over your money to a third party. We’ve all seen how the government can flick a switch and lock you in your own home/county. It’s not beyond the realms of belief that they’ll take full control of your bank account.

funnily enough, not so democratic institutions can and have shut down countries banking systems over night, greece!

makeorbrake

Overheal wrote: »

Quite right. Governments run on taxes and are invested in ensuring they have a keen eye on commerce. It doesn't help that the black market is where you find some of the worst sorts - not just unregistered or stolen firearms and drugs etc. but child trafficking and more, incl. people hiring hits on people from what I understand. Nevermind all that unreported labor from those usually not qualified to work over the counter.

If we zoom out timewise, AML/KYC is a relatively recent occurrence. The world didn't fall part without it. I believe that people are being sold a pup with the cover story of trafficing/pedo's/terrorism/money laundering. Crime can be faught in the traditional sense...without stepping on people's civil liberties and privacy. That's before we consider the friction for both businesses and people.....these regulations make policemen out of financial services companies and banks which they are not equipped to do; they stymie innovation because of the overhead attached to it.
And then when it comes to major laundering activity, it's facilitated by big banking anyway. Or....criminal organisations know what crooked paperwork to put in to get around it - so then why bother? Perhaps because it's not about that at all and its about the financial surveillance and control.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

funnily enough, not so democratic institutions can and have shut down countries banking systems over night, greece!

Exactly. And there’s people here who will say “the gov will never do that”.

I’d sooner have cash in my pocket than ask the gov/banks can i borrow my own money.

The Tetrarch

Today I tried to but a Desktop PC from the UK.
My bank does not issue sterling drafts. They do not even handle foreign currency.

PayPal want me to click Wallet, and Add my Bank to PayPal.
When I select that option it is not adding my bank details.
It is a form where they want me to give them authority to Direct Debit my bank account.
There is no info on what the direct debits are/will be, or any information.

Previously I paid through PayPal. They charged my Mastercard.
The PC supplier in the UK does not take credit cards, only sterling drafts, or direct bank transfer. I can not do a direct bank transfer from a Euro bank account to their sterling bank account. My bank suggested I ask for an equivalent Euro amount and transfer that. I asked them. No response.

shaveAbullock

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Today I tried to but a Desktop PC from the UK.
My bank does not issue sterling drafts. They do not even handle foreign currency.

PayPal want me to click Wallet, and Add my Bank to PayPal.
When I select that option it is not adding my bank details.
It is a form where they want me to give them authority to Direct Debit my bank account.
There is no info on what the direct debits are/will be, or any information.

Previously I paid through PayPal. They charged my Mastercard.
The PC supplier in the UK does not take credit cards, only sterling drafts, or direct bank transfer. I can not do a direct bank transfer from a Euro bank account to their sterling bank account. My bank suggested I ask for an equivalent Euro amount and transfer that. I asked them. No response.

Does this bank even have a name?

The Tetrarch

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Does this bank even have a name?

Of course it has a name.

shaveAbullock

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Of course it has a name.

If I found such outstanding service, I too would be reluctant to disclose who it was to others. Too many users can destroy a good bank.

kenmm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Today I tried to but a Desktop PC from the UK.
My bank does not issue sterling drafts. They do not even handle foreign currency.

PayPal want me to click Wallet, and Add my Bank to PayPal.
When I select that option it is not adding my bank details.
It is a form where they want me to give them authority to Direct Debit my bank account.
There is no info on what the direct debits are/will be, or any information.

Previously I paid through PayPal. They charged my Mastercard.
The PC supplier in the UK does not take credit cards, only sterling drafts, or direct bank transfer. I can not do a direct bank transfer from a Euro bank account to their sterling bank account. My bank suggested I ask for an equivalent Euro amount and transfer that. I asked them. No response.

Not entirely sure what this has to do with the topic, but try TransferWise.

Is it a legitimate company tho (selling)?

shaveAbullock

Perhaps his bank is actually a credit union?

Dodge

No help here but no way would I be making purchases from the UK with the protection of a card

El Tarangu

Apparently, the reduction in circulation of people paying for things with coins has caused a serious coin shortage:

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/nickels-dimes-short-supply-coin-shortage-squeezes-200818154128387.html

Now, whether this is an argument in favour of the vital role that cash plays in the economy, or and indictment of how inefficient it is as a means of payment, I don't know

makeorbrake

Very interesting article in Forbes that features a company at the heart of facilitating paper money for decades - and their preparations in moving towards digital money.

Just in case anyone is under any illusions, that change is coming. It's just a question of how long it takes and how it's implemented.

neutral guy

makeorbrake wrote: »

Very interesting article in Forbes that features a company at the heart of facilitating paper money for decades - and their preparations in moving towards digital money.

Just in case anyone is under any illusions, that change is coming. It's just a question of how long it takes and how it's implemented.

We will never see cashless world and possible our children will not see it too..

makeorbrake

neutral guy wrote: »

We will never see cashless world and possible our children will not see it too..

I'm quite happy to consider that you may be correct. However, it's not a view that I share. The Chinese are already testing their digital Yuan. A cashless world? Maybe not. Some major countries having moved to cashless within the next ten years? That looks likely.

neutral guy

I am created ways of incomes which help me be independent from my wage
The last time I am used my bank/credit card in July 14/2020
To be honest I am forgot my PIN
I am do not have days off,I do not see my family,my child,my wife
I do not remember when I last time had sex with my wife
I am starting my day at 6.00 and I finish my day at 22.00
I have about 1K additional extra in cash in wallet per week because I am work hard at 2/3/4 jobs
And now government will make my life cashless trying make me pay taxes
Does it fair ?

makeorbrake

neutral guy wrote: »

Does it fair ?

Dude, what's fair got to do with anything!

There are some that would say that you need to pay taxes on ALL of your income. I can see plenty of logic to that - provided the game isn't rigged and ALL taxes/systems are setup to treat ALL citizens equally. This doesn't tend to be the case ..and the degree to which it doesn't varies from one jurisdiction to the next.

That's before we get to a consideration of privacy. And before we get to a consideration of the ability of government to 'turn off' your wealth at the drop of a hat.

Switching back to 'fairness', sovereign money is used because you're forced to use it. Eventually, you'll be forced to use the digital version of sovereign money too - if that's what the powers that be want.