The current trend of removing cash is a serious mistake

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you ll find these industries employ extremely intelligent people, who are well able to work their way around laws, loads of evidence out there to support that

Don't need work-arounds, gradual introduction as outlined above. Just need to wait a few years to allow the erosion of privacy.

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

No collusion needed. No law breaking required. It's very easy - 10% off to access your accounts via open banking APIs?

Done.

Fast forward a few years of this, where the majority are giving up their data for feck all and it becomes the norm. Fast forward another few years and the next generation accept the invasion of privacy for "discounts" as fact - they way it always was.

Look at mobile phone usage and what people give away for free. If you were to tell people in the the late 90s/ early 2000s that you you would have traffic alerts on a mobile device and all you had to do was let a company track your movements - what do you think the general response would have been?

completely agree, there are some now advocating, that we should be charging private companies for the access to our data, its why i try reduce my social media activities, but its virtually impossible to completely disconnect from these systems, in the modern world, id say literally only a few humans have ever been successful at doing this, probably in some cave somewhere

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you ll find these industries employ extremely intelligent people, who are well able to work their way around laws, loads of evidence out there to support that

kenmm wrote: »

Don't need work-arounds, gradual introduction as outlined above. Just need to wait a few years to allow the erosion of privacy.

you ll find, it takes humans to create these workarounds

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

completely agree, there are some now advocating, that we should be charging private companies for the access to our data, its why i try reduce my social media activities, but its virtually impossible to completely disconnect from these systems, in the modern world, id say literally only a few humans have ever been successful at doing this, probably in some cave somewhere

Doesnt matter much anyway - as you are connected to everyone you know.

I don't think its too much of a stretch to image future scenarios where your data is used in ways that havent been thought of yet - i.e. you are a contact in some people phone books - your peers spend a lot of time drinking, therefore you do too..

That data cannot be legally used at the moment, but the data exists, is stored and may be used in the future.

Same with geo data etc.

The problem with privacy is that we are in complete unprecedented times. Everything is stored and can technically be used at any point in the future - can you really guarantee that a future gov wont open up these permissions? Do you think people will really care? Maybe for a few protests, but no one will be fighting on the streets.

That's not to mention the linking of different systems - we currently are tightening up the use of cash and money transfers to prevent money laundering and crime (fair enough) - but what happens when these systems can also be used to aid tracking scenarios like above?

Its not something to worry about as such - as at the same time - I'm probably a good bit beyond the half way point in life - so am I gonna spend the rest of time worrying, or just say fu(k it..

(although - if someone does want to bookmark this post and set a reminder for 5/7 years time, we can pick it up the conversation then..)

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you ll find, it takes humans to create these workarounds

I know - but I mean - we don't need to get around the laws in a sneaky way - just ask people and offer them something that seems to be worth something (a discount etc).

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

No - bit I mean - we don't need to get around the laws in a sneaky way - just ask people and offer them something that seems to be worth something (a discount etc).

i understand that, but you will also see, laws are in fact being circumvented as well, in order to achieve these objectives, but i do agree, we dont get access to free media services for nothing! an astonishingly level of wealth is being created from such activities, and we re giving the data to them for free, some business model, your most critical and main raw material, is virtually free!

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i understand that, but you will also see, laws are in fact being circumvented as well, in order to achieve these objectives, but i do agree, we dont get access to free media services for nothing! an astonishingly level of wealth is being created from such activities, and we re giving the data to them for free, some business model, your most critical and main raw material, is virtually free!

Ah ye - sorry - I wasn't excluding your point - I get ye - both are happening plus the legal ways of changing laws (spending a fu(kload on lobby groups and other campaigns to manipulate the masses)..

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

Ah ye - sorry - I wasn't excluding your point - I get ye - both are happening plus the legal ways of changing laws (spending a fu(kload on lobby groups and other campaigns to manipulate the masses)..

thankfully, there are people out there, that have a very good idea whats going on, and how we might deal with it, but it probably will be very difficult to implement the changes they are suggesting, particularly politically

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thankfully, there are people out there, that have a very good idea whats going on, and how we might deal with it, but it probably will be very difficult to implement the changes they are suggesting, particularly politically

I don't think there are enough really (plus too many that don't care) - I think the TV show 'years and years' was a good (if not cheesy) take on where we are at.. so far its working out (BoJo elected, massive world wide catastrophe at the start of the decade..)

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

I don't think there are enough really (plus too many that don't care) - I think the TV show 'years and years' was a good (if not cheesy) take on where we are at.. so far its working out (BoJo elected, massive world wide catastrophe at the start of the decade..)

yea id agree, but i think we ourselves could try promote what they are suggesting, and hope for the best, unaware of that tv show, must check it out

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yea id agree, but i think we ourselves could try promote what they are suggesting, and hope for the best, unaware of that tv show, must check it out

Getting off topic - but sometimes its hard as you are put down as an "alarmist" or worse.. conspiracy theorist (happened a few times on this thread)..

The world isn't going to turn into a dictatorship overnight, but there are very obvious erosion of privacy that is happening, and it is an erosion, gradual enough but over time its happening.

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

Getting off topic - but sometimes its hard as you are put down as an "alarmist" or worse.. conspiracy theorist (happened a few times on this thread)..

The world isn't going to turn into a dictatorship overnight, but there are very obvious erosion of privacy that is happening, and it is an erosion, gradual enough but over time its happening.

ah yea, shur happens me all the time, i wear it as a badge of honor, i interpret it positively, and im finding respected commentators that are confirming my fears, so we cant be that wrong!

i dont think its truly off topic, i think its a critical component of our monetary systems, theres a reason why tech such as crytos has exploded into existence!

Pawinho

https://youtu.be/8I6Lg8nR0c0


"A BILL
To require member banks to maintain pass-through digital dollar wallets for certain persons, and for other purposes."
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3571/text

All cash will be remove from monetary system sooner then we think.
We have global reset right now.

4068ac1elhodqr

On the subject of removal of cash, one development which might be of interest (but still likely some years, perhaps a decade away), is the use of the human body (activity) itself, to process cryptocurrency (digital currency) on the fly.

The patent (WO2020060606) was filed/published the week just after BG left Microsoft, March 2020.
A bit technical for some, but the claims, drawing and description are all published and available in public domain:
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606

Abstract: Human body activity associated with a task provided to a user may be used in a mining process of a cryptocurrency system. A server may provide a task to a device of a user which is communicatively coupled to the server. A sensor communicatively coupled to or comprised in the device of the user may sense body activity of the user. Body activity data may be generated based on the sensed body activity of the user. The cryptocurrency system communicatively coupled to the device of the user may verify if the body activity data satisfies one or more conditions set by the cryptocurrency system, and award cryptocurrency to the user whose body activity data is verified.

The word 'embodiment' features x56 in the description alone. It's thus envisaged some insertion to the human body would be required to generate vectors and generate the hash algorithm, to verify and award cryptocurrency. There is also likely processors and memory storage required (as per Claim 1) to communicate with the device (person).

bobbyy gee

Some parts of world it's illegal

neutral guy

Just came back from take away place were they started take 50 cents charge for payment by cards when order are under 10 euros.

Bubbaclaus

neutral guy wrote: »

Just came back from take away place were they started take 50 cents charge for payment by cards when order are under 10 euros.

That is against the law. Assuming you didn't just make that up (which you probably did), you should report them.

Stark

Since when? There's a charge on debit card payments which normally the shop absorbs but they're under no obligation to afaik. Before Covid it was very common for shops to refuse to accept debit cards altogether if you were paying <10 euro.

neutral guy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

That is against the law. Assuming you didn't just make that up (which you probably did), you should report them.

The first at all they do Best Kebabs in town ! The next thing I always pay by cash and never asking for receipt because I support hard working people !

Bubbaclaus

neutral guy wrote: »

The first at all they do Best Kebabs in town ! The next thing I always pay by cash and never asking for receipt because I support hard working people !

People that defraud this country and the taxpayers of this country by tax evasion are not hard working. They are scumb@g cnuts.

Bubbaclaus

Stark wrote: »

Since when? There's a charge on debit card payments which normally the shop absorbs but they're under no obligation to afaik. Before Covid it was very common for shops to refuse to accept debit cards altogether if you were paying <10 euro.

Since the start of 2018 it has been illegal to apply a surcharge to a customer because they are paying by card. This applies across the EU.

makeorbrake

neutral guy wrote: »

Just came back from take away place were they started take 50 cents charge for payment by cards when order are under 10 euros.

$28 billion - that's the amount of loss in terms of card fraud globally in 2018. Someone has to pay for that - and banks/visa, etc. also have to take a cut.

Therefore, it will be rolled in to the price - the consumer pays for it. That's why many online vendors offer a discount for payment via crypto.

neutral guy wrote: »

The next thing I always pay by cash and never asking for receipt because I support hard working people !

neutral guy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

People that defraud this country and the taxpayers of this country by tax evasion are not hard working. They are scumb@g cnuts.

People doesnt stealing your money,people do hard work 24/7 and they deserve be awarded.Problem is not hardworking people who doesnt pay taxes The problem is people who sleep on sofa and milking the taxpayers.
Paying taxes I am not getting good quality healthcare and childcare so if I not getting it I dont have pay taxes because I not getting anything
Working hard I am creating my work place not government so why I have pay wages to government ?
I work legal work and I pay all taxes.What I do after work is my hobby and I do what I want.
If you seat on sofa after work and do nothing is your choice and please dont blame people who work hard when you do nothing

PHG

neutral guy wrote: »

The first at all they do Best Kebabs in town ! The next thing I always pay by cash and never asking for receipt because I support hard working people !

And those people that work and pay all their due taxes are not hard working. Not charging the VAT is in itself price competition and undercutting your competitors who may just as good or better but are legit! I do struggle to honestly believe tradesmen when they say the only difference full price minus the VAT ONLY for cash jobs!!

I live in Stockholm, it is cashless in over 80% of the shops. Haven't touched a Swedish bank note or coin in over a year, no idea what they look like. Honestly, it makes life so much easier, don't even take the wallet out anymore, just pay with the phone.

If phone got stolen, log into laptop and shut everything down and new cards in 2 days or use a back up card I leave at home.

GarIT

neutral guy wrote: »

Working hard I am creating my work place not government so why I have pay wages to government ?

Have you ever been to a hospital, needed the help of the gardaí, walked on a footpath? That has to be paid for. None of us like paying for it but it should be spread out between everyone.

neutral guy

GarIT wrote: »

Have you ever been to a hospital, needed the help of the gardaí, walked on a footpath? That has to be paid for. None of us like paying for it but it should be spread out between everyone.

Yes,I paid 100 euros for help in hospital because I paid taxes,too much taxes probably because I did not get any medical card from government because people on social welfare which does not pay any taxes has to many them.
The Garda usually help me pay more taxes stopping me on check point
The many foot paths are made from EU money and has nothing to do with taxes.

GarIT

neutral guy wrote: »

Yes,I paid 100 euros for help in hospital because I paid taxes,too much taxes probably because I did not get any medical card from government because people on social welfare which does not pay any taxes has to many them.
The Garda usually help me pay more taxes stopping me on check point
The many foot paths are made from EU money and has nothing to do with taxes.

A trip to A&E costs so much more than €100, taxpayers pay the rest of the bill. If you paid €100, the state probably paid the other €900.

EU money isn't magic. EU money comes from taxes we pay to them. It's funny too, the EU paid for a few notable motorways and people act like the country was built by them.

makeorbrake

neutral guy wrote: »

Yes,I paid 100 euros for help in hospital because I paid taxes,too much taxes probably because I did not get any medical card from government because people on social welfare which does not pay any taxes has to many them.
The Garda usually help me pay more taxes stopping me on check point
The many foot paths are made from EU money and has nothing to do with taxes.

Dude, I'd quit whilst you're....ahead (???).

I do agree that there's an argument to be made that there should be an allowance made for additional work tax-free beyond someone's main job. I worked in Germany many many years ago and they had a setup like this - albeit that there was a cap on what you could earn on that basis.
There's also a case to be made that non-compliance (evasion) is somewhat justified if the powers that be implement a tax system that is onerous and inequitable. However, I'm not going down that avenue in terms of discussion as it's a hot potato and one for a separate discussion in its own right.
More equity as regards tax systems is needed - and that's why I'm a fan of application of taxes per utility use (we have the tech to do that now so why not use it). But as I said, it's an entirely separate discussion.

grogi

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

That is against the law. Assuming you didn't just make that up (which you probably did), you should report them.

It is not against the law. It might be against the agreement with card operator thought, but I cannot be sure.

Bubbaclaus

neutral guy wrote: »

People doesnt stealing your money,people do hard work 24/7 and they deserve be awarded.Problem is not hardworking people who doesnt pay taxes The problem is people who sleep on sofa and milking the taxpayers.
Paying taxes I am not getting good quality healthcare and childcare so if I not getting it I dont have pay taxes because I not getting anything
Working hard I am creating my work place not government so why I have pay wages to government ?
I work legal work and I pay all taxes.What I do after work is my hobby and I do what I want.
If you seat on sofa after work and do nothing is your choice and please dont blame people who work hard when you do nothing

"I work legal and I pay all taxes"

You do in your fcuk. You have admitted you dont.

People that pay taxes and help support this country are the hard workers. The people that evade tax, like yourself, are the scroungers and the conmen.

The worst part of all this is that you actually believe the stupid ****e you are sprouting.