The current trend of removing cash is a serious mistake

Cordell

sydthebeat wrote: »

Agreed.

Its so funny reading posters say "cash is king" as if that means it's a better way to pay than digital.

"Cash is king" means there's a dodgy deal happening somewhere

Yes, liquidity is king is what it means. Whatever form that liquidity is, numbers in your account or crumpled rectangles of paper, all the same.

MOH

RandomViewer wrote: »

Drug dealers will just use Sterling/ Dollars, gold sovereigns whatever, if you legalise drugs the criminals will find another cash flow, tiger kidnapping, kiddie porn, guns, scrum always finds its level

I'm not sure how Agile development is relevant here

tobefrank321

double jobbing wrote: »

With the decline in the virus I've returned to cash after what, 12 weeks now?

Tap and go is the preserve of the moron. Takes twice, three times as long to complete payment, not to mention half of vendors keep the reader upside down behind the counter, meaning the amount on the screen is out of your view, meaning your 1.50 can of coke could be 15 quid for all you know. An utter pain in the hole, I'm baffled as to how anybody prefers it over cash.

Tap and go takes 2 seconds. Ask the vendor to turn around the screen. Or check your receipt. or Check the till display. Its ironic that you say tap and go is the preserve of a moron but then say you could pay 10 times more by mistake because you are not on the ball!

Rooting for change, handing it across and waiting for the change back takes far longer, at least 30 seconds. And in a time of covid 19 is hardly the most hygenic thing.

El_Duderino 09

I haven't bothered with cash as more places accept contactless payments. I always have a 20 note just in case and I replace it about every 2/3 months.

I see some people seeing virtue in using cash. One poster even said "Contactless is the preserve of a moron" as if one method of payment was superior or more fashionable. Well, contactless is happening and it's growing and cash is receding. Edit. I see someone has linked to this quote above. Totally disconnected form reality. Contactless used to be slow. Now it's faster than cash without even getting into some aul wan sifting through coins in their hand and doing the mental maths slower than a child.

Cash will probably never disappear but it will probably become an inconvenience associated with old people.

tobefrank321

listermint wrote: »

I'm as big a fan as anyone of contactless and revolut etc..

But personally very uneasy about the total oblivion of cash transactions. Theres alot at stake and yes privacy being one. This is absolutely expensive data that businesses will fight over .

Who exactly would be interested in your card transactions? And you realise if a government really wanted to know what you are doing there are numerous other ways such checking your mobile phone data, gps or towers you've pinged, your online social media presence, or just by listening in using your phone or home assistant devices. And you are already conducting most transactions by card anyways including all online transactions. I doubt the government is interested in the 99 icecream you bought using cash or the bit of timber you bought at the hardware store. They don't care.

biko

This pandemic shows an electronic money society is possible.
But is it what we want?
Me, no.

Then again, so many young people are willing to exchange privacy for convenience it doesn't surprise me they are for it.

In 20 years no-one will remember what it was like to not having agencies and companies know all about you.
And they make decisions about you based on your purchase history.
Social credit score is just a step beyond that.

DellyBelly

Cash is King!

meeeeh

Tap and go is pretty useless for me during Corona. I don't go to the shops to get coffee or whatever just because I'm bored at home. For majority of my shopping I need to enter pin and onther purchases are done online. You would need at least 150 tap limit to make it work for families.

MOH

El Tarangu wrote: »

Bricks and mortar banks are more expensive because they have many bricks-and-mortar banks and need to pay people to staff them; not for reasons of the range of services they supply. If there were no more cash, banks would no longer need a physical presence in every town in the country. So far, none of your examples of the services banks provide would preclude an online bank carrying them out.



I suppose I'm worried about all levels of criminality - but yes, a disruption in petty crime would be one of the benefits of getting rid of cash.

I had my cards stolen when I was on holidays last year. Was due to fly home the next day.

Called my bank to cancel the cards, quickest they could get me emergency cash was two days.
Called my insurance company who kept me on hold until my phone credit ran out (turned out I'd forgotten it was a bank holiday at home but they didn't bother putting up a "we're closed" recording).
Emailed a friend who called me back, they sent me cash via Western Union which I had a couple of hours later and was enough to get me home.

When I got home I went into my local branch with ID and took out enough cash over the counter to keep me going until my replacement cards turned up at the end of the week.

If there were no local branches, or cash, how was I supposed to eat for that week?Or get home?

Besides that, blind faith in electronic banking systems are your sole means of paying for something, with no fallback, is just insane. And the "think of the children" crime argument is a red herring. Criminals will easily find other alternatives, as always it's just honest, regular people who will be affected.

tobefrank321

PCeeeee wrote: »

Kermit with the greatest of respect if you think the drug lords do not have extensive and unhindered access to the banking system already then I believe you are heartily mistaken.

Low level dealers would certainly be hindered albeit briefly (imo) but those at the top who control huge sums?

But its much easier for an organisation like CAB to track transactions that go through a bank account than large cash movements, especially in the EU where there are no physical border controls.

biko

All we need is one week of blackout and the population realise they can't pay for anything with their plastic cards.

beauf

meeeeh wrote: »

Tap and go is pretty useless for me during Corona. I don't go to the shops to get coffee or whatever just because I'm bored at home. For majority of my shopping I need to enter pin and onther purchases are done online. You would need at least 150 tap limit to make it work for families.

Not sure where you are going with this? You don't buy anything under 50 ever?

Let us know next time you're buying a round....;)

tobefrank321

MOH wrote: »

I had my cards stolen when I was on holidays last year. Was due to fly home the next day.

Called my bank to cancel the cards, quickest they could get me emergency cash was two days.
Called my insurance company who kept me on hold until my phone credit ran out (turned out I'd forgotten it was a bank holiday at home but they didn't bother putting up a "we're closed" recording).
Emailed a friend who called me back, they sent me cash via Western Union which I had a couple of hours later and was enough to get me home.

When I got home I went into my local branch with ID and took out enough cash over the counter to keep me going until my replacement cards turned up at the end of the week.

If there were no local branches, or cash, how was I supposed to eat for that week?Or get home?

Besides that, blind faith in electronic banking systems are your sole means of paying for something, with no fallback, is just insane. And the "think of the children" crime argument is a red herring. Criminals will easily find other alternatives, as always it's just honest, regular people who will be affected.

There are numerous payment apps for your phone, which you probably should have set up before going on holidays. They are generally tap and go.

meeeeh

MOH wrote: »

Besides that, blind faith in electronic banking systems are your sole means of paying for something, with no fallback, is just insane. And the "think of the children" crime argument is a red herring. Criminals will easily find other alternatives, as always it's just honest, regular people who will be affected.

Actually it was never before so easy for different criminals to scam people out of money electronically. They don't even need to hang outside of the bank waiting for the victim to hand them the money they got in the bank.

beauf

biko wrote: »

All we need is one week of blackout and the population realise they can't pay for anything with their plastic cards.

How much cash would you think you would need on hand to cover such a situation. One months wages, two? 6 months wages perhaps?

beauf

meeeeh wrote: »

Actually it was never before so easy for different criminals to scam people out of money electronically.

They scam people using cash also. Arguably that is easier.

beauf

MOH wrote: »

I had my cards stolen when I was on holidays last year. Was due to fly home the next day.

Called my bank to cancel the cards, quickest they could get me emergency cash was two days.
Called my insurance company who kept me on hold until my phone credit ran out (turned out I'd forgotten it was a bank holiday at home but they didn't bother putting up a "we're closed" recording).
Emailed a friend who called me back, they sent me cash via Western Union which I had a couple of hours later and was enough to get me home.

When I got home I went into my local branch with ID and took out enough cash over the counter to keep me going until my replacement cards turned up at the end of the week.

If there were no local branches, or cash, how was I supposed to eat for that week?Or get home?

Besides that, blind faith in electronic banking systems are your sole means of paying for something, with no fallback, is just insane. And the "think of the children" crime argument is a red herring. Criminals will easily find other alternatives, as always it's just honest, regular people who will be affected.

If you'd had lots of cash. Would they not have stolen that also?

meeeeh

beauf wrote: »

Not sure where you are going with this? You don't buy anything under 50 ever?

Let us know next time you're buying a round....;)

As I said during Corona. I don't go to the shop every day or every two days to make limits work for me. I probably need to enter pin more often now than I would before the pandemic.

seamus

biko wrote: »

All we need is one week of blackout and the population realise they can't pay for anything with their plastic cards.

You say this like the retailers will all just sit there waiting for customers and like the state and banks will do nothing.

One week of blackout and cash will dry up insanely quickly leaving everyone in the same boat whether they've been using cash or not. There are many ways of getting along without it. People did it in the 60s and 70s over several months.

If we've learned one thing from Covid it's the amount of things we considered essential, that really, really aren't.

At this stage, access to cash would be the last of my worries if there was a total and extended nationwide blackout. Supply chains would be in total disarray. I'd be happy to be able to get my hands on enough food to feed my family, worry about everything else later.

meeeeh

beauf wrote: »

They scam people using cash also. Arguably that is easier.

Small amounts maybe. It's easier to get large amounts electronically.

El Tarangu

meeeeh wrote: »

Basically you are saying that anyone who is not tech savy and needs a bit of help with their banking should be abandoned. Not to mention that as a business some things are easier delt with dedicated person over the phone or in person. Or people like my MIL who couldn't access her money because of technical issues (confirmation txt wouldn't come true).

Any move to cashless society would not need to take place overnight. In 10 years' time, the number of people who can't use internet banking will be vanishingly-small; banks are already closing their down their branches because it's not worthwhile keeping them open any more.

I go to bank quite a bit and vast majority of interactions people have are not about cash.

Now that I have the mortgage sorted, I go into the bank less than once a year; any the times I went in recently could probably have been carried out online.

You can get over 1000 euro out of bank atm anyway and you can lodge whatever you want in the atm.

Still sounds like a lot more hassle than tapping on your phone. Also, paying to service these ATMs, and paying for the transport of cash to-and-from them, represent a significant cost to banks; these costs are then, of course, borne by the customers in fees. No cash means lower bank charges.

meeeeh

Not all of us need banks just for personal transactions.

MOH

beauf wrote: »

If you'd had lots of cash. Would they not have stolen that also?

What are you talking about? Yes, obviously I would have lost whatever cash I had on me.

I'm talking about initially being able to quickly get replacement cash from a friend when the bank were no help, then get cash from a branch to keep me going until my cards were replaced.

MOH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There are numerous payment apps for your phone, which you probably should have set up before going on holidays. They are generally tap and go.

Should I now?

So I should already be living in the cashless society the OP craves?
Presumably I should also have bought a different phone?

El Tarangu

MOH wrote: »

I had my cards stolen when I was on holidays last year. Was due to fly home the next day.

I'm sorry to hear that you were robbed on holidays; that sucks. If you get robbed abroad and no longer have any of your stuff, you will always be in trouble, cash society or cashless society.

However:

Called my bank to cancel the cards, quickest they could get me emergency cash was two days.

Cash is slow, whereas securing your cashless payments was almost instantaneous

Emailed a friend who called me back, they sent me cash via Western Union which I had a couple of hours later and was enough to get me home.

While WU operate by giving you a lump of cash at the end, your problem was solved by someone making an electronic transfer of money which, even though you were in another country, happened simultaneously.

When I got home I went into my local branch with ID and took out enough cash over the counter to keep me going until my replacement cards turned up at the end of the week.

If there were no local branches, or cash, how was I supposed to eat for that week?Or get home?

Your phone. Your desktop.

Geuze

US2 wrote: »

As long as the bank charges me for spending my own money I wont be happy with a cashless society.

Note that all banks must now offer a Basic Bank Account.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/banking/standard_bank_account.html#:~:text=Basic%20bank%20accounts%20have%20been,least%20the%20first%2012%20months.

meeeeh

El Tarangu wrote: »

While WU operate by giving you a lump of cash at the end, your problem was solved by someone making an electronic transfer of money which, even though you were in another country, happened simultaneously.

All bank and other transactions are done electronically. What are they supposed to be done by. Pigeon mail? And Goggle pay is fine but it's limited to low amounts in stores.

It's not like people here are advocating we do things like the were done 100 years ago. All most are saying is that you have to be very careful when you are advocating to limit options people have. Yes you can have electronic banks, mobile pay, bank transfers (and I have them all) but none of them will allow me to pay sourdough on the stall in my local farmers market. And because it is usually gone by 11 I doubt they will be overly fussed losing me as a customer.

seamus

meeeeh wrote: »

All bank and other transactions are done electronically. What are they supposed to be done by. Pigeon mail?

The point here is that there is functionally no difference between your mate transferring cash via WU and your bank doing exactly the same thing.

The only difference is procedural; your bank hasn't set up a "get me home" mechanism for people stuck in your situation.

Your situation is not proof that cashless is fallible, merely that the current system has gaps that have not been resolved.

You could have, for example, an EU-wide agreement between banks that allowed for an emergency bank card to be issued by any EU bank to any customer of any other bank in any other country, which would give them instant access to withdraw cash from their own account bank home.

No reason why worldwide the banks couldn't appoint an agent (e.g. WU) to do this from any location.

This would be just as quick, and even more secure than trying to get physical cash transferred to you.

PsychoPete

Stark wrote: »

I became a lot more aware of what I was spending using card vs cash when going to apply for a mortgage. Having a stranger being able to pore through every detail of my life from what I had to breakfast to my subscription to pornhub premium made me a little uneasy.

Pornhub premium is free....I heard

beauf

meeeeh wrote: »

As I said during Corona. I don't go to the shop every day or every two days to make limits work for me. I probably need to enter pin more often now than I would before the pandemic.

That because you are choosing to go to the shops for large amounts rather than shop online. Its got nothing to do with cashless banking.

Not that I think there is a great risk from shopping. If it had been identified as high risk they wouldn't have opened it up.