Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

super_furry

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

When you do the same, an advertisement of mixed race, foreign race etc etc it make the white Irish feel abnormal and unwelcome.

Jesus fcuking Christ.

El_Duderino 09

markodaly wrote: »

A picture paints a thousand words and what millions saw yesterday was nothing less than frenzy of mob rule destorying public property.

Now, before one responds with a high-horsed resposne, I dont care about Edward Colson, or his bronze statue but do people honestly expect this to help ones causes to defeat racsism. All it will do is get people on the defensive and cast a poor imagine on those who are protesting.

Yeah but that's not all it will do. You'd swear some people only heard about protests yesterday for the first time.

Protests have a long history and they can be very effective at causing change. It makes politicians stand up and take notice and change their focus. It will likely cause more councils to stop democratically ignoring calls to remove similar statues in other areas.

It might give you a poor image of the protesters but it (as part of the broader protests) will likely have long lasting Impact on politics and culture in the UK. Thats a great thing.

I get that you need to look for any reason to ignore the good and exaggerate the bad in this protest. It's completely in keeping with your post history. But I think you'd really have to stretch your own credulity to believe that Protests don't have Impaxt beyond making the protesters look bad.

FVP3

mick087 wrote: »

Great artical but we need to look at ourselves.
How many non irish faces work R.T.E how many ethnics do we see sitting in The Dáil. We have a long way to go here in Ireland

Well, the taoiseach is an "ethnic". A lot of Irish immigrants arent citizens, particularly EU migrants. I work with people who know nothing about Irish politics. They can continue to vote in their home countries.

As for RTE well its not really representative of anything but people living a stones throw away.

FVP3

mick087 wrote: »

Cromwell i guess some would say was the ultimate republican.
What he did not only here in Ireland but England was of its time.



What is important is how we move forward and live in a socity that's not only equal in wealth but equal in education and health otherwise we are just the same as we were 300 years ago repackaged under a diferernt name.

"was of its time" would justify a lot of atrocities. Equal in wealth probably isnt going to happen in the West ever, that ship has sailed.

Nermal

robinph wrote: »

The police knowing that a lump of bronze ending up in the harbour is a better result than a bunch of police and protesters in hospital and a load of shops smashed up. And knowing that the statue of a slave trader being glorified in the centre of the city wasn't worth fighting over.

Policemen who think order is not worth fighting over should find another job.

TheAsYLuMkeY

osarusan wrote: »

It is a fact that the Lidl ad with a mixed race couple caused some ("so many") white Irish people to feel abnormal or alienated?


That's about as 'snowflake' as it gets.

Ha ha.... the aul use of 'snowflake' as retort.

You win.

buried

Fair play, its high time we went to the Hill of Tara and remove the statue of St.Patrick too.

The Hill of Tara is the ancient seat of the pagan Kings of Ireland. The hill has nothing to do with some foreign worshiping missionary that eradicated our Islands indigenous religion and culture and enslaved it with some abrahamic desert god worship from Egypt and Syria.

Tear down that statue too while we are at it please.

is_that_so

Christy42 wrote: »

What history has been rewritten? For history to be rewritten you would have to change what you teach about it. So what lines in particular have been rewritten?

There has been calls to move it to a museum for years so blame the council for not having it in a museum.

I didn't say it had been, I said it could be. It really is not the same thing. History is not clean and it's always been a challenge to show it, warts and all.

robinph

This councillor seemed to anticipate vandalism of the statue and said it was OK to do so:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/theft-vandalism-second-colston-statue-1815967

Except he meant if any mention of slave trading was put on the statue and would then think that removing the update was OK, and his mascot for previous campaigns was a golliwog!!!!

robinph

Nermal wrote: »

Policemen who think order is not worth fighting over should find another job.

They seemed to keep order pretty well. Nobody hurt, no windows smashed, no businesses damaged, just a lump of bronze ended up in the harbour.

As someone who pays his wages I'm OK with it.

Yellow_Fern

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The University of Glasgow in acknowledgement of how it benefited from the slave trade has pledged £20m to a joint research centre with the university of the West Indies.

Liverpool has a museum of slavery that fully acknowledges the role the city played.

Bristol had a statue of a slave trader with no mention of slavery.

See the difference?

You are totally kidding your self if you think tearing down the staue or unversities finding charities will end it. This sort of year zero nonsense wont stop.

mick087

FVP3 wrote: »

Well, the taoiseach is an "ethnic". A lot of Irish immigrants arent citizens, particularly EU migrants. I work with people who know nothing about Irish politics. They can continue to vote in their home countries.

As for RTE well its not really representative of anything but people living a stones throw away.

I know Leo would be. But there is a large non white non Irish now living here in Ireland. We need to reflect this more on our national broadcasting tv channels and in our politics. It will happen at some point we should do something now and not wait for a campaign of no irish born or second generations to show us the light.

suicide_circus

They used to kill children in Machu Picchu by way of human sacrifice, not something the average modern Peruvian approves of i'm sure. Won't be long til the reduce the site to rubble i'd imagine.

mick087

FVP3 wrote: »

"was of its time" would justify a lot of atrocities. Equal in wealth probably isnt going to happen in the West ever, that ship has sailed.

Its not to justify anything, putting kids up the chimney was of its time. Part time workers not having the same rights as full time workers was of its time.
We learn and move forward.
The west will not change untill all colours religons join and say all lives matter then on that day govements fall changes happen.


We live in a socity were we pay a Solictor more than a career, if you can justify this then one day your be considered someone of there time.

Bannasidhe

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

You are totally kidding your self if you think tearing down the staue or unversities finding charities will end it. This sort of year zero nonsense wont stop.

Will end what exactly?

riffmongous

Nermal wrote: »

Policemen who think order is not worth fighting over should find another job.

This isn't Mega City One, the police did a better job here of keeping order in the UK as a whole rather than escalate with an 'order at any costs' approach

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

With such a heritage, it's surprising..[Cromwell].. not remembered more fondly here, no?

osarusan wrote: »

Seriously?

Well, if you regard the cause of Irish freedom as being synonymous with republicanism, then yes. But of course there's more to national sovereignty than that.

Many staunch believers in the "national struggle" like to hide behind republicanism as an ideology that is, supposedly, neutral on the topic of religion or even ethnicity and provides a path to a shared egalitarian future for all people on the island. Ref Tone's aim to replace "the single term Irishman in place of Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter" which were the divisive issues in the days when nearly everybody, and I mean literally everybody on this island, was a pasty faced white person.

This allows them to say "We're not shooting Protestants, we're shooting agents of a divisive partitionist ideology that seeks to keep us apart. Of course Protestants will understand!!"

But it's not as simple as that. Despite their sniffiness about sectarianism, modern Irish "republicans" are keen to point out that will be a Catholic majority in the "Six Counties" very soon, which has got everything to do with ethnicity and NOTHING to do with Republicanism; nor are some of them averse to taunting victim's of sectarian massacres carried out by the IRA by the ghoulish act of posting social media pics of themselves with loaves of bread on their heads bearing the name of the site of a particularly horrific incident on the anniversary of the day it occurred. That's not Republicanism, that's tribal BS.

Of course the hints were there from the beginning. Cromwell was in no way tolerant of religious differences. Papists were the Antichrist, as far as he was concerned. But of course he would think that. Wasn't he a republican?

Snickers Man wrote: »

(Don't get me wrong; the man was a complete c-word

What part of that observation did you miss?

Bannasidhe

suicide_circus wrote: »

They used to kill children in Machu Picchu by way of human sacrifice, not something the average modern Peruvian approves of i'm sure. Won't be long til the reduce the site to rubble i'd imagine.

Interesting...
Do you not think perhaps monuments to the Conquistadors might have been a better analogy?

Or doesn't that suit your hyperbolic argument?

suicide_circus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Interesting...
Do you not think perhaps monuments to the Conquistadors might have been a better analogy?

Or doesn't that suit your hyperbolic argument?

slavery and child murder are both wrong in today's context, yes?

Cupatae

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I'll just leave things here, so. I'd just like to say this is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on Boards.


You can make an assertion about anything you like, and other people have to prove you wrong or it's "true". Most people will disingenuously argue from this point of view, but it's rare to see it outright stated.

So you wanna say im wrong and want to challenge what i said but ya have nothing only fluff, is what ur saying good lad..you did ur best to avoid the point and be deliberately acting stupid the bait was rejected tho better luck next time.

robinph

suicide_circus wrote: »

slavery and child murder are both wrong in today's context, yes?

Are there any statues to glorify the slavers or child murderers?

suicide_circus

robinph wrote: »

Are there any statues to glorify the slavers or child murderers?

so statues are the cut off point?

BlitzKrieg

suicide_circus wrote: »

They used to kill children in Machu Picchu by way of human sacrifice, not something the average modern Peruvian approves of i'm sure. Won't be long til the reduce the site to rubble i'd imagine.

Actual historical site vs a statue a rich businessman built as a bragging point about his presidency of charity.

Bannasidhe

It would seem that Colston was quite the celebrated figure among the top hat and tails section of Bristol society with an annual procession and church service held in his honour every year since around 1720.. until 2017 when the church involved decided they couldn't really continue to commemorate the man himself.

The day has traditionally included a procession from the statue of Edward Colston, which stands in The Centre, and until recently also included a visit to ‘pay homage’ to Colston’s own crypt in the former All Saints Church.

The commemoration day began in around 1720, has had a similar format for around 100 years, and has traditionally included a procession in top hat and tails.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-church-refuses-host-most-782798

Yet, some here would have us think that the people who organised his statue didn't know he was a slave trader even though he was being 'celebrated' in Bristol since the time of his death.

James Brown

Yamanoto wrote: »

The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

Or this?



Do you imagine the ordinary members of the public were asked did they want it up in the first place? Were they f***.
I'm cool with a slave traders statue coming down. Next Thatcher's and Cromwell's.

Nermal

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Actual historical site vs a statue a rich businessman built as a bragging point about his presidency of charity.

Kheops-Pyramid
Nina at the Norwegian bokmål language Wikipedia / CC BY-SA (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/)

Here's an 'actual historical site' that is pretty much the definition of bragging by a rich businessman.

When are we tearing this one down?

ancapailldorcha

Nermal wrote: »

Kheops-Pyramid
Nina at the Norwegian bokmål language Wikipedia / CC BY-SA (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/)

Here's an 'actual historical site' that is pretty much the definition of bragging by a rich businessman.

When are we tearing this one down?

You mean you intend to actually do something that doesn't involve whataboutery?

elefant

Are people genuine in here in trying to draw a comparison between buildings that were funded through slave trade, and a statue of an actual slave trader?

It's such a pathetic effort at gotcha whataboutery that it really doesn't feel genuine.

robinph

suicide_circus wrote: »

so statues are the cut off point?

Dunno, what other examples of what about have you got?

A building is not the same as a statue incase you hadn't noticed.

A triumphal arch type thing might find itself on the wrong side of history at some point, but they are a bit bigger and trickier for the population to do anything about without some major hardware at their disposal.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

By some people’s logic here maybe we should get a few bulldozers in to sort out Auschwitz.

Yeah fück history.