Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

El_Duderino 09

Nermal wrote: »

Giambologna sabine

Look at these bastards in Florence, with a statue on display blatantly commemorating a notorious sexual assault.

Tear it down!

You can advocate for that if you want. but if you're only saying it ironically (which you obviously are) then why not make a good argument instead?

mick087

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Yes , the " mob " were correct to remove that statue . Sure wasn't the statue erected , all those years ago , to celebrate that this man was a slave trader / racist etc ( and for no other reason , hum ? )

Also , when are BLM and co going to demolish Mount Rushmore , seeing as the founding fathers were found of the odd slave or two ?

History should now be rewritten , in this " brave new world " .

Statues should now be erected of George Floyd
( And Piers Morgan ) .

I dont agree that the mob should of done this.


How do we decide who is right or who is wrong?

El_Duderino 09

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Yes , the " mob " were correct to remove that statue . Sure wasn't the statue erected , all those years ago , to celebrate that this man was a slave trader / racist etc ( and for no other reason , hum ? )

Also , when are BLM and co going to demolish Mount Rushmore , seeing as the founding fathers were found of the odd slave or two ?

History should now be rewritten , in this " brave new world " .

Statues should now be erected of George Floyd
( And Piers Morgan ) .

Why should history be rewritten (except to include the true fact that the guy facilitated the slave trade)? Cant the history be told in full? And when the history is told in full, then this guy shouldn't really be venerated. And that's fine. He has a lot of history to tell.

I would geniumely like ot know why you hink history is being rewritten.

Bannasidhe

robinph wrote: »

+1

This makes it a much more powerful object when it is dried off and stuck in the museum.

Absolutely.

It will be an artifact to an attempt by the worthies of Bristol to gloss over how their city made much of its wealth and how some 130 years later during a period of civil unrest when issues around how that money was made and its lasting effects became manifest the people of the city took things into their own hands.

Bristol has long been famous for it's riots after all. As I am sure all the Colston scholars who have suddenly appeared out of the woodwork are aware.

I look forward to reading their peer reviewed monographs.

nullzero

mick087 wrote: »

They want the white race to belive that black lifes matter.

We're all the human race the last time I checked.

markodaly

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

. I oppose that.

So you oppose mobs sometimes but agree with them sometimes.

Very convienent, dont you think? Still makes you a hypocrtie mind.

I guess those 'sometimes' are decieded by your ideological position on the current affaris of the day, not anyting fundamental in your own moral, ethical or belief system.

What happened yesterday wasn't mobs dishing out violent vigilante justice and hanging people they think are criminals.

Correct, they were mobs damaging public property. A mob none the less, dont you agree?

And to be clear, I said the protests and taking down the statue was a great thing. I did not say mob rule is a great thing.

Its the same things. The manifestation of mob rule is 'a great thing'. Your words, not mine. At least own it.

suicide_circus

would an additional large plaque in front of the statue stating something like

"Edward Colston traded in human beings. He sent X amount of men, women and children to the new world in chains never to see their homes again. The impact of his actions revererate to this day"

have been of any use? Or is smashy smashy the only way?

Lefty Bicek

Bannasidhe wrote: »

All I saw from you was a wiki - did you provide an actual scholarly reference?
If so can you post again as I missed it.

I did post it already, but anyway...

Wilkins, H. J. (1920). Edward Colston (1636–1721 A.D.), a chronological account of his life and work. Bristol: J. W. Arrowsmith.

I would be grateful, from you or anyone else, a contradicting source.

It certainly does seem incongruous that such a prominent individual's activities were not known or wondered about, hundreds of years later.

nullzero

suicide_circus wrote: »

would an additional large plaque in front of the statue stating something like

"Edward Colston traded in human beings. He sent X amount of men, women and children to the new world in chains never to see their homes again. The impact of his actions revererate to this day"

have been of any use? Or is smashy smashy the only way?

Smashy Smashy is the order of the day.

Junkyard Tom

I support people's efforts to get across the Berlin wall but the criminal damage of public property is unacceptable. The law-and-order heads are a hilarious bunch really.

Truthvader

robinph wrote: »

How has the city been damaged by the removal of this statue?

Nothing has been destroyed, nothing has been lost. Just a statue which doesn't represent the feelings of the population towards the slave trade ended up in the harbour.

Don't be a Dick.

suicide_circus

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I support people's efforts to get across the Berlin wall but the criminal damage of public property is unacceptable. The law-and-order heads are a hilarious bunch really.

ah here, my stupid analogies got called out so i'm doing the same to yours.

nullzero

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I support people's efforts to get across the Berlin wall but the criminal damage of public property is unacceptable. The law-and-order heads are a hilarious bunch really.

Another false equivalence, that must be a record for one thread.

Lefty Bicek

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Interesting...
Do you not think perhaps monuments to the Conquistadors might have been a better analogy?

Or doesn't that suit your hyperbolic argument?

All Inca Lives Matter.

lads its a statue of a fella nobody outside of bristol had ever heard of with zero cultural significance as an artefact and an exceptionally sketchy history that unfortunately does still carry echoes to this day

i aint woke but if this thing being tossed in a river is a major problem for you all of a sudden i think maybe have a lil word with yourself

Bannasidhe

Nermal wrote: »

A violent woke mob is no judge of historical, archaeological, or artistic value. Why should they have the power to cleanse the streets of history?

I am sensing you have some gaps in your historical knowledge.

Perhaps you never heard of the violent woke mob who demanded 'no taxation without representation'?
Or the violent woke mobs who cheered as the divine right of kings was disavowed by the executioner? Twice. Once in England and again in France.
Or the violent woke mobs who called for some small civil rights and were slaughtered? So many examples of that - Summer Palace, Tolpuddle, etc etc
The violent woke mob who hung the father of fascism from a lamppost?
You must have heard of that woke mob in Derry who were used as target practice bt the Paras?

Cleanse the streets of history me hole.

The streets of history are littered with the violent repression of woke mobs and our civil rights were usually earned by these who died at the hands of the various states.

BlitzKrieg

suicide_circus wrote: »

would an additional large plaque in front of the statue stating something like

"Edward Colston traded in human beings. He sent X amount of men, women and children to the new world in chains never to see their homes again. The impact of his actions revererate to this day"

have been of any use? Or is smashy smashy the only way?

This has been covered already, that were was an attempt to put a plaque on the statue highlighting his involvement in the slave trade.

but it got tied up with amendments and by the time a version was produced, the message had been sanitised extensively and it was vetod by the mayor with a request to go back and produce a more accurate version.

This was just last year and a new version hadnt been produced.


It needs repeating that the people who are actually in Bristol on this thread keep highlighting that there has been a long winding controversy with this statue, that we are not surprised it was targeted (the police were not either, they had covered it in a canvas prior to the protest) It's also weird that most of the people I know in Bristol are happy to see it in the sea while it's primarily people I know in Ireland and London that are being concerned about wiping history etc.

Junkyard Tom

suicide_circus wrote: »

ah here, my stupid analogies got called out so i'm doing the same to yours.

nullzero wrote: »

Another false equivalence, that must be a record for one thread.

It's deliberately ridiculous to highlight the concern-trolling.

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

lads its a statue of a fella nobody outside of bristol had ever heard of with zero cultural significance as an artefact and an exceptionally sketchy history that unfortunately does still carry echoes to this day

i aint woke but if this thing being tossed in a river is a major problem for you all of a sudden i think maybe have a lil word with yourself

you could well be right but things like the destruction of monuments and burning of books require scrutiny.

mick087

nullzero wrote: »

We're all the human race the last time I checked.

Its a debate you would need to have with a black person.


Im a person who belives all lives matter what ever colour relgion you are, once we all accept this then we can move forward in having a more equal wealth education health society.



All empires was built on keep them poor keep them uneducated keep them in debt. But the most important rule is keep brother fighting brother.

Lefty Bicek

robinph wrote: »

Nobody has been suggesting that, well except for the people who wanted the slave traders statue to remain up and thinking that was the next "logical" step.

Auschwitz is not a statue commemorating the Nazis. It is an historical site to remember the victims of the Nazis.

It's up to the viewer to decide.

If I look at that statue, I think of the victims of slavery, not of Colston.

Actually, the statue serves two useful purposes in remaining -

1. the abomination of slavery as a notion
2. the acceptance of it in a 'civilised' nation.

Removing it is just pandering to bleeding hearts. Weaklings, unless part of a mob.

suicide_circus

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

It's up to the viewer to decide.

If I look at that statue, I think of the victims of slavery, not of Colston.

Actually, the statue serves two useful purposes in remaining -

1. the abomination of slavery as a notion
2. the acceptance of it in a 'civilised' nation.

Removing it is just pandering to bleeding hearts. Weaklings, unless part of a mob.

naaah, smashy smashy!!

GreeBo

Going to be very few statues around if we can only venerate people who have nothing in their lives that *current* society can deem "bad".

Lefty Bicek

robinph wrote: »

+1

This makes it a much more powerful object when it is dried off and stuck in the museum.

More powerful, where fewer people will see it.

Nermal

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Perhaps you never heard of the violent woke mob who demanded 'no taxation without representation'?
Or the violent woke mobs who cheered as the divine right of kings was disavowed by the executioner? Twice. Once in England and again in France.
Or the violent woke mobs who called for some small civil rights and were slaughtered? So many examples of that - Summer Palace, Tolpuddle, etc etc
The violent woke mob who hung the father of fascism from a lamppost?
You must have heard of that woke mob in Derry who were used as target practice bt the Paras?

Addressed in the very post you quoted: for all the comparisons to Iraq, Ireland, Soviet states: precisely what oppressive, undemocratic and colonial entity are the Bristol branch of BLM engaged in violent rebellion against?

Are they taxed without representation? Ruled by an absolute monarch? Unequal before the law?

Don't tell me they're repressed by the jackboot of that sorry excuse for a policeman I quoted earlier.

Mitch Connor

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

It's up to the viewer to decide.

If I look at that statue, I think of the victims of slavery, not of Colston.

Actually, the statue serves two useful purposes in remaining -

1. the abomination of slavery as a notion
2. the acceptance of it in a 'civilised' nation.

Removing it is just pandering to bleeding hearts. Weaklings, unless part of a mob.

The statue that made no reference to Slavery.

The statue that venerated the virtues and wisdom of one of Bristols greatest sons, according to the plaque.

That statue as you walked past it last week would have made you think of Slavery and its place in a civilised nation. Bull.

Mitch Connor

GreeBo wrote: »

Going to be very few statues around if we can only venerate people who have nothing in their lives that *current* society can deem "bad".

"bad" in quotes. Slavery and responsibility for mass murder.

BlitzKrieg

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I did post it already, but anyway...

Wilkins, H. J. (1920). Edward Colston (1636–1721 A.D.), a chronological account of his life and work. Bristol: J. W. Arrowsmith.

I would be grateful, from you or anyone else, a contradicting source.

It certainly does seem incongruous that such a prominent individual's activities were not known or wondered about, hundreds of years later.

I did link an article earlier that goes extensively into the history of the funding and presentation of the statue and there is a quote of the mayor at the presentation mentioning his links to the slave trade in a sanitised manner

https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/myths-within-myths/

However, the Mayor made one major indirect reference in his speech in stating that Colston’s “business was mainly with the West Indies”; essentially code for involvement in slavery and the slave trade.

Though I am having difficulty looking through the source: https://www1.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1895-11-14?NewspaperTitle=Bristol%2BMercury&IssueId=BL%2F0000035%2F18951114%2F&County=Bristol%2C%20England

Newspapers of the 1890s are difficult to read. (also I could only pick 3 pages to look at until tomorrow)

So if the source is accurate then it does appear there was a knowing acknowledgement at least within political sources of where his wealth came from and what he was.

I also think it's more important how the article highlights how much his importance to Bristol is fabricated by select groups and organisations.

Nermal

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The statue that venerated the virtues and wisdom of one of Bristols greatest sons, according to the plaque.

Only inaccurate if you're small-minded enough to think that great is synonymous with good.

Mitch Connor

Nermal wrote: »

Addressed in the very post you quoted: for all the comparisons to Iraq, Ireland, Soviet states: precisely what oppressive, undemocratic and colonial entity are the Bristol branch of BLM engaged in violent rebellion against?

Are they taxed without representation? Ruled by an absolute monarch? Unequal before the law?

Don't tell me they're repressed by the jackboot of that sorry excuse for a policeman I quoted earlier.

Whether you accept it or not, there is a very real feeling that BAME minorities are not treated equally by society, in this case the UK. Though I would argue the poor, in general, fall massively into this inequality.

So the repression being protested is that of minorities in general, black people specifically - within this movement.