Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

FVP3

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Education, is the outcome. Which is always a good thing. Britain is not full of 'ignorant people'. Those people are a product of an education system that doesn't tell them this stuff.
The statuery won't survive of the majority of people know the truth.

Naw. It's nothing to do with the Empire. Its a US influence. The british have regard for the Empire.

buried wrote: »

So when they going to take that statue of Saint Patrick off the Hill of Tara and put it in some Roman church where it should be?

Why would we do that? Patrick was anti-slavery as far as I know.

FrancieBrady

nickkinneg wrote: »

and you can probably add in the Colosseum in Rome too - that would need to be checked - "by that logic"

The Colosseum is an historic artefact, it isn't a vulgar celebration.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Inbetweeners couldn't be made today.

And it started only ten years ago.

Why not?

People who are offended are in the minority and no-one gives a **** about them.

biko

We need BLM in Mauritania.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yQlOPD8mNo

buried

FVP3 wrote: »

Why would we do that? Patrick was anti-slavery as far as I know.

The Hill of Tara was the ancient seat of the Pagan kings of Ireland, the Hill is not the seat of some Welsh lad that came over here with some middle eastern desert God worship craic from Rome

nickkinneg

also needed in Nigeria - https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/09/africa/nigeria-women-rape-protests/index.html

Gradius

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Education, is the outcome. Which is always a good thing. Britain is not full of 'ignorant people'. Those people are a product of an education system that doesn't tell them this stuff.
The statuery won't survive of the majority of people know the truth.

So they aren't ignorant, yet need to be educated?

All for the sake of toppling statues.

No, I think it's people doing what people have always done. Asserting authority and gaining power. Introduce one/many populations into an existing population and trouble follows as they vie for power. Look at the countries that are in social disarray, look at the ones that aren't. What's the commonality that separates them?

That's a much bigger motivation than toppling statues. It's essentially "following the money" and asking who benefits from this?

El_Duderino 09

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Another monument venerating a person who profited from inter-generational torture removed.

https://twitter.com/SadiqKhan/status/1270425865273389056

That's the perfect solution for loads of these posters who say they are happy with these statues cing down but not happy the mob did it. The councils are doing it now so the likes of Nullzero are getting what they want... Aren't they?

4068ac1elhodqr

Lucky Davey Cameroon isn't still about over there, did'nt his folks have a big hand, in getting folks to carry sugar bags about the place over the decades/centuries.

FVP3

buried wrote: »

The Hill of Tara was the ancient seat of the Pagan kings of Ireland, the Hill is not the seat of some Welsh lad that came over here with some middle eastern desert God worship craic from Rome

Yeh it was pagan, and then it wasn't. Now it is a shrine to both then high kings and Patrick. I think Patrick had some magic duel up there anyway.

Anyway if you want to round up the posse to take down that statue, off you go.

nickkinneg

Megan Most Octagon wrote: »

Lucky Davey Cameroon isn't still about over there, did'nt his folks have a big hand, in getting folks to carry sugar bags about the place over the decades/centuries.

I posted before - Alf Garnett would be a goner....same with that Byton woman who wrote the kids books

El_Duderino 09

nickkinneg wrote: »

I repeat - By that same logic - the pyramids of Egypt should be torn down as well - they were built by slaves. Who is being held to account there?

You can campaign for that if you like.

Gradius

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They're a monument to hard work of slaves and nobody is trying to venerate the people who benefitted from their graft.

Go teach yourself about false equivalence and whataboutery.

Surely you are taking the p*ss?

"a monument to the hard work of slaves"? Sure you could call the entirety of Britain the same then. Better not touch it.

As for veneration, Britain's existence is veneration enough. That people from every nook of the globe try to get in there is veneration itself. Sure there you go, best not touch it so

Gradius

biko wrote: »

We need BLM in Mauritania.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yQlOPD8mNo

Nah, man. Only the most free countries in the world deserve a kicking about centuries gone past, those others engaged in heinous crimes right now, who has time for that?

FrancieBrady

Gradius wrote: »

So they aren't ignorant, yet need to be educated?

No, they aren't...that was your lovely characterisation.

What you will find now is that these offensive celebrations of dubious people will be removed by consensus.

Which will bring cathartic and transformative change to a lot of people who simply were not aware of the full truth of their past.

Bannasidhe

Gradius wrote: »

No, no, no

You are stating your ignorance on how these people are, without one single exception, self-dividing into black and white. In this micro example, the subservient gesture of "white" people to "black" people.

These excellent people can recognise what they're doing. But you can't. You can't grasp it. You can't understand it. You're ignorant to it. It's an unsolvable puzzle.

Then in the same instance, you'll segregate all sorts of other people. Of course you understand why there are no Mexicans. Of course you understand why there are no japanese. Of course you understand why there are no vikings.

You can see everything you want to see. And nothing you refuse to see.

No,, I don't think white = bad. Yet you are the one who translates words automatically to change meaning. You did that earlier.

Pointing out the obvious is rarely popular, especially with selectively critical people. But what you are saying is tried and true, it's practical cliché. But it works, and you'll have many friends because of it, though quality may be wanting.

It's amazing how you seem to be able to tell people's ethnic origins by looking at them on the internet and also tell me what I do, and do not, think/understand from a few posts on the internet.

You want to lump a group of people you know nothing about into 'African' and 'European' and accuse me of not understanding nuance.
On the contrary - I understand very well that the population of The United States is far too diverse, and co-mingled, for a crude division of 'European' and 'African' to describe it. But that is the one that fits your narrative.

An Italian American from New York and a Swedish American from Minnesota are as different as an Italian from Naples and a Swede from Malmo. However, the former are both Americans and the latter are both Europeans and the Italian American from New York is very very different to the Italian from Naples.
As is the Irish American from Boston and the Irish person from Tuam.

An American of African descent is as American as one of German descent. They may have a slightly different set of cultural familial customs - but so do Jewish Americans, and Cuban Americans, and all the other ethnicities that combine to form the collective American.

The problem is that some people over there do not want people who are not of European descent to be American. Well, they can either accept it or this cycle will keep on repeating itself because like it or not, Americans of non-European descent are just as American as 'European' ones.


You still haven't answered which catagory the twin girls fall into - are they 'European' or 'African'?

Galwayguy35

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Did I say that?

You are like a politican its very hard to get a yes or no answer out of you.

FVP3

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's the perfect solution for loads of these posters who say they are happy with these statues cing down but not happy the mob did it. The councils are doing it now so the likes of Nullzero are getting what they want... Aren't they?

Yeh it's still a bit year zero though. I suppose it won't end now. Except Cromwell, he'll be there for all enternity.

( The US stopped with the confederate statues because it wasn't really about anti racism but US Supremacism)..

buried

FVP3 wrote: »

Yeh it was pagan, and then it wasn't. Now it is a shrine to both then high kings and Patrick. I think Patrick had some magic duel up there anyway.

Anyway if you want to round up the posse to take down that statue, off you up.

Its not a monument to the Irish Pagan Kings, the statue is a monument to the catholic religion and it never had a presence up there. One day of "magic" does not supersede over 1000 years of actual culture. Take it down and put it in a Roman Catholic church, not the seat of our islands indigenous culture that was wiped out by the likes of foreign missionaries like st paddy or whatever the lads name was.

Clarence Boddiker

Deleted User wrote: »

Immense historical value versus statues of zero historical worth that misrepresent history.

Historical value to whom? To you?
See this is where the problem lies, there may be a group who regard the pyramids as monuments to slavery and want them removed and who's to say they're wrong?
What's going on here is there are many people who are fine or indifferent with statues of people they regard as immoral or don't really care about being removed.
Cecil Rhodes who gives a fcuk right?

But these same people assume that monuments they like will not be removed, and then they find themselves on the other side of the argument.
If its acceptable to remove or destroy statues and monuments to appease a particular group now then it will be acceptable to do so to appease other groups.

Like others have said - Rome was built on slavery, so going by the logic it is entirely reasonable to destroy Roman structures such as the colosseum, "but wait, I didn't think it was gonna go that far!

4068ac1elhodqr

Can see a surge in consumer DNA testing soon (stock buy alert!).

A nice lady once told me, I had a bit of W'African in me (won't say which bit).
Even 2% could give an allowance for a big day out marching and shouting.
For what it's worth am a big fan of Afrobeat.

Time to call e.g. dna23 and surrender the genetics to commerce, in lieu of future increased health insurance premiums and multi clausal smallprint.

Clarence Boddiker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Colosseum is an historic artefact, it isn't a vulgar celebration.

Many thousands of slaves were brutally killed in the Colosseum, it has to go.
But you regard it as a historic artefact? Tough sh1t you don't get to decide which monuments are for saving.

Chicoso

Growing up in the UK i always thought about the history we were taught

Never much context to it

There has to be a price to pay for colonialism and slavery

FVP3

buried wrote: »

Its not a monument to the Irish Pagan Kings, the statue is a monument to the catholic religion and it never had a presence up there.

It never had a presence up there, and then it did.

One day of "magic" does not supersede over 1000 years of actual culture.

Er, you are the one who seems to want to write off 1000 years of history.

Take it down and put it in a Roman Catholic church, not the seat of our islands indigenous culture that was wiped out by the likes of foreign missionaries like st paddy or whatever the lads name was.

FFS man, what crazy form of history are you reading. There was no invasion of catholics into Ireland. The country was converted by choice. The old culture lasted beside catholicism.

And the celtic catholicism of the early years was distinct from later Roman Catholicism. That actually did take an invasion to impose, the Normans, so we are back to them.

If Ireland got rid of all public monuments that weren't per christian Irish there would be little left.

Bannasidhe

Megan Most Octagon wrote: »

Can see a surge in consumer DNA testing soon (stock buy alert!).

A nice lady once told me, I had a bit of W'African in me (won't say which bit).
Even 2% could give an allowance for a big day out marching and shouting.
For what it's worth am a big fan of Afrobeat.

Time to call e.g. dna23 and surrender the genetics to commerce, in lieu of future increased health insurance premiums and multi clausal smallprint.

Son got me one of those test kits for Xmas. It came back 100% Cork (I kid you not) - sure no one is that lucky like bai.
I also know for a fact it's not true cos me GG Granny was from Jersey.

4068ac1elhodqr

The scrap dealers are going to have a field day with all the sudden market accessible surplus of bronze for smelting.

Chances are Hirst will just output more trademark half-tiger sharks/cows, to adorn town centres and confuse the street zombies.

4068ac1elhodqr

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Son got me one of those test kits for Xmas. It came back 100% Cork (I kid you not) - sure no one is that lucky like bai.
I also know for a fact it's not true cos me GG Granny was from Jersey.

Likely they just ran a social-media search instead e.g. on name, and tw/facebook return suggested he was indeed a good regualar cork bai (pale, and supports the ball team etc)



They could tell you something like 0.25% Pacific Islander, and shure no one would bat an eyelid, instead hold romanticised visions of pulling pacific fish many moons ago. Pays the money and takes the (future insurance) chances.

Chicoso

Megan Most Octagon wrote: »

The scrap dealers are going to have a field day with all the sudden market accessible surplus of bronze for smelting.

Chances are Hirst will just output more trademark half-tiger sharks/cows, to adorn town centres and confuse the street zombies.

Load of Churchill bronzes for sale on ebay

FrancieBrady

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Many thousands of slaves were brutally killed in the Colosseum, it has to go.
But you regard it as a historic artefact? Tough sh1t you don't get to decide which monuments are for saving.

Nobody is celebrating that and it most certainly is not a monument to slavery.

Stop twisting.

Gradius

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's amazing how you seem to be able to tell people's ethnic origins by looking at them on the internet and also tell me what I do, and do not, think/understand from a few posts on the internet.

You want to lump a group of people you know nothing about into 'African' and 'European' and accuse me of not understanding nuance.
On the contrary - I understand very well that the population of The United States is far too diverse, and co-mingled, for a crude division of 'European' and 'African' to describe it. But that is the one that fits your narrative.

An Italian American from New York and a Swedish American from Minnesota are as different as an Italian from Naples and a Swede from Malmo. However, the former are both Americans and the latter are both Europeans and the Italian American from New York is very very different to the Italian from Naples.
As is the Irish American from Boston and the Irish person from Tuam.

An American of African descent is as American as one of German descent. They may have a slightly different set of cultural familial customs - but so do Jewish Americans, and Cuban Americans, and all the other ethnicities that combine to form the collective American.

The problem is that some people over there do not want people who are not of European descent to be American. Well, they can either accept it or this cycle will keep on repeating itself because like it or not, Americans of non-European descent are just as American as 'European' ones.


You still haven't answered which catagory the twin girls fall into - are they 'European' or 'African'?

You : "it's impossible to categorise people"

Foot washers: "let me show you"

Are these people taking on-the-spot genealogy tests? Like fook they are. They are using their eyeballs to differentiate people, with unerring deviation. European people on the bottom, African sitting up top.

So which is it? Are they racist because they are using their eyeballs to differentiate people? Are you racist because you refuse to tell your arse from your elbow when grouping people?

If one of those European-looking people turned out to be 87% African, do you think he'd get his feet washed by an African-looking that's actually 92% genetically European? Ha, you know the answer.

And that answer itself tells you everything about these hand-wringing exercises about who is who genetically. Namely, that it doesn't matter a jot.

It's nothing but a never ending maze of hypocrisy and contradiction.