Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

joe40

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Surely fixing the slavery problems of today is more important than removing statues

Yes and curing cancer, solving homelessness, eradicating poverty, ending wars would all be more important than removing statues.

One thing is one doesn't affect the other. Nobody condones modern day slavery.

is_that_so

markodaly wrote: »

Well it will come to a stage where there will be no statues left if society continues in this cancel culture. Mob rule is still mob rule after all.

It doesn't need to get to that stage but as long as some look for monuments to protect and others seek out offenders to remove then that risk remains.

is_that_so

marieholmfan wrote: »

Fine by me. He was an apologist for the most evil Empire in history. The British Empire.

How will measure your own concept of what's good if it's all been removed?

Bannasidhe

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Surely fixing the slavery problems of today is more important than removing statues

And because no one in this one thread has commented on conditions in US prisons it means nothing is being done?

Or that no one cares about modern slavery?

Here's a Time magazine article from last December https://time.com/5741714/end-modern-slavery-initiatives/

One of the things it comments on is a march in London on 2017, now I bet you that many of the same people (not you specifically) saying 'whatabout modern slavery eh? Who is trying to fix that eh??' at the time were saying 'oh yes, usual suspects. Don't they have any jobs to go to? Mob rule, etc etc etc'.

Removing a statue of a slave trader can actually lead to discussion on modern slavery and create an impetus. It's not a big step from 'This guys made his money out of slavery some 250 years ago' to ' did you know slavery still exists??'

Leaving it there, unremarked, with a plaque extolling his virtues gives the impression that benefitting from slavery is ok as long as you pay for a few worthy causes with the fortune you made. You might even get a statue put up in your honour.

joe40

blackbox wrote: »

After we remove every statue and painting that gives offence, we will have to go around removing every photograph of the statues and paintings and every document about them.

In Newspeak they won't ever have existed.

.

That is such nonsense. There are no statues of Hitler in Germany, has he been forgotten, written out of history.

I don't mind debating the rights and wrongs of this but nonsense like that is just tiresome.

Statues are erected to commemorate and celebrate people. They should earn that in their lives.

qwertyuiopa

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And if the righties were honest about why they want to leave memorials to slave traders alone that would also be great. But there you have it.

Personally, I think anything that gets the public educating themselves about people who have literally been put on pedestals is a good thing over all,regardless of who that person is be it Guevera or Columbus or Sean Russell and then people can make an informed decision as to whether or not they believe that person merits honouring in a public space.

Yep, I'd agree with most of what you say actually! All three of the above were far from perfect (Columbus being the worst by a long way imo).

Consistency in terms of calling out dodgy historical figures is all I'm looking for!

Cant see PBP calling out Guevera anytime soon though

Randy Archer

Ah here, now, the numpties want a Christy Columbus memorial in Galway removed . Please. Time to stop this pandering . The blacks themselves were knee deep in slavery themselves

We’d still be in the Stone Age were if not for many of these historical people. Slavery is bad, we all agree , but it’s often just one part of someone from that time . It has little to no relevancy today.

For all the bs the blacks talk about the scary white man, have never heard them complain or speak out against the likes of Mugabe or the leaders of the Congo ,Uganda , Rwanda etc who were and in some cases still are bating the ****e out of each other

South Africa has been chasing Zimbabweans out of their area for over 10 years. Literally lynching them . Asian business people have been chased out of parts of SA in recent time with full support from Ministers of government

Time to ignore these clowns. They have waaay too much time on their hands

Randy Archer

joe40 wrote: »

That is such nonsense. There are no statues of Hitler in Germany, has he been forgotten, written out of history.

I don't mind debating the rights and wrongs of this but nonsense like that is just tiresome.

Statues are erected to commemorate and celebrate people. They should earn that in their lives.

Hitler hasn’t been forgotten or written out of history. In fact, it’s a crime to claim that the Holocaust didn’t happen . Hooter was celebrated for a brief moment during his life time, by a lot of people eg Time Magazine, Olympics

ErnestBorgnine

I'd like the moving statue in Ballinspittle removed, it freaks me out.

Thelonious Monk

So are all people of European descent in the USA going to have to top themselves now?

ohnonotgmail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So are all people of European descent in the USA going to have to top themselves now?

Yes. That is the natural conclusion to a statue of a slave trader being torn down in Bristol.

Bannasidhe

markodaly wrote: »

Well it will come to a stage where there will be no statues left if society continues in this cancel culture. Mob rule is still mob rule after all.

Bit hyperbolic there Mark.

Have the vintners assoc started lobbying to have Fr Matthew's statue removed from Patrick Street in Cork because he advocated temperance?

Has there been calls to fling The Little Mermaid into the sea?

What about Molly Malone? Have the butchers complained she is pro -cockles and mussles and bad for their business?

Has this cancel culture mob called for The Angel of The North to be toppled?

The Famine memorial?

Kindred Spirits?

Statue of Liberty???

No.
None of that has happened and it is unlikely to happen because not one of those statues is a memorial to a 'worthy' who made their fortune off human misery.

Personally I would have no issue if a statue of their victims was placed along side them showing the other side - but who wants to see a depiction of a chained slave in city centres? Bad for the tourist industries dontcherknow.

ricero

Deleting history is a truly dangerous precedent. Its quite frightening how these "woke" nazis are allowed get away with this.

I read today that the critically acclaimed and iconic film "gone with the wind" has now been cancelled. Its absurd.

ohnonotgmail

ricero wrote: »

Deleting history is a truly dangerous precedent. Its quite frightening how these "woke" nazis are allowed get away with this.
.

a statue to a man who made his money from slave trading that doesn't mention that is deleting history.

ricero wrote: »

I read today that the critically acclaimed and iconic film "gone with the wind" has now been cancelled. Its absurd.

it hasnt

Paddygreen

It’s time to boycott Ford guys. Henry Ford was a racist. Anyone who drives a Ford should be ashamed. There is a museum down in Cork that should be demolished ( the Ford birthplace I think it is called) high time that we cleansed our society of this kind of thing. Having another Microsoft Meeting with my BLM crew tonight and we will try to formulate a course of action. There are Fords everywhere and that is highly offensive to all minority’s and progressive thinkers such as myself. #banford

Thelonious Monk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Yes. That is the natural conclusion to a statue of a slave trader being torn down in Bristol.

Well I'm saying that based on the news I just read where they destroyed a Colombus statue in Virginia

ohnonotgmail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well I'm saying that based on the news I just read where they destroyed a Colombus statue in Virginia

and again an entire population killing themselves is the natural conclusion to the tearing down of a statue. there is no other way this can end

mick087

ricero wrote: »

Deleting history is a truly dangerous precedent. Its quite frightening how these "woke" nazis are allowed get away with this.

I read today that the critically acclaimed and iconic film "gone with the wind" has now been cancelled. Its absurd.

Your going to find over the years many films comdies etc will vanish.
The western world is changing at a fast rate. For my generation maybe bad for the young generation under 25 maybe good better.

US2

“... every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” George Orwell, 1984

nullzero

Paddygreen wrote: »

It’s time to boycott Ford guys. Henry Ford was a racist. Anyone who drives a Ford should be ashamed. There is a museum down in Cork that should be demolished ( the Ford birthplace I think it is called) high time that we cleansed our society of this kind of thing. Having another Microsoft Meeting with my BLM crew tonight and we will try to formulate a course of action. There are Fords everywhere and that is highly offensive to all minority’s and progressive thinkers such as myself. #banford

So when the timing belt went on that focus I had it was because I was driving a racist car and I deserved it?

Bannasidhe

qwertyuiopa wrote: »

Yep, I'd agree with most of what you say actually! All three of the above were far from perfect (Columbus being the worst by a long way imo).

Consistency in terms of calling out dodgy historical figures is all I'm looking for!

Cant see PBP calling out Guevera anytime soon though

I'm not sure that murals in Derry and Belfast fall within PBP's remit but I take your point. TBH James Connelly is more in their line.

And I can't see FF or FG calling out Daniel O'Connell as he was actually in favour of Ireland being part of the British Empire but wanted it to be a separate 'kingdom' under the British monarch as it had been prior to The Act of Union. Once again - there you have it.

All political sides have their 'heroes' based mainly on myths, half truths, and ignoring some inconvenient facts.

Paddygreen

Ford helped the nazis. If you drive a Ford you are condoning racism. All fords need to be scrapped dealerships closed and monuments and museums about Henry Ford removed going forward.

JimmyVik

Paddygreen wrote: »

Ford helped the nazis. If you drive a Ford you are condoning racism. All fords need to be scrapped dealerships closed and monuments and museums about Henry Ford removed going forward.

You cant stop there.
He was responsible of mass production of the motorcar.
Without him we would not be all driving cars.
All cars should be burned. And never a car used again.
Greta will get behind that one too.

Bannasidhe

Paddygreen wrote: »

Ford helped the nazis. If you drive a Ford you are condoning racism. All fords need to be scrapped dealerships closed and monuments and museums about Henry Ford removed going forward.

Wait til you hear about Volkswagen, Hugo Boss, and Chanel.

lawrencesummers

ricero wrote: »

Deleting history is a truly dangerous precedent. Its quite frightening how these "woke" nazis are allowed get away with this.

I read today that the critically acclaimed and iconic film "gone with the wind" has now been cancelled. Its absurd.

Your didn’t read it properly so, because it hasn’t been cancelled. It’s hard to cancel something that exists.

As for deleting history, that’s just idiotic, history can’t be “deleted” it can just be remembered more accurately, and showing that some people don’t deserve prominent lifetime effigies in public give a more accurate reflection of the people they actually were.

robinph

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Wait til you hear about Volkswagen, Hugo Boss, and Chanel.

You forgot IBM, which basically means we all have to stop using all computers and the internet now as Facebook is about to implode on itself. And all the rockets that put satellites into orbit are now not allowed either and the space station will be landing in a river nearby any moment now as it decides that it can't continue with the shame of how it got there.

nullzero

Paddygreen wrote: »

Ford helped the nazis. If you drive a Ford you are condoning racism. All fords need to be scrapped dealerships closed and monuments and museums about Henry Ford removed going forward.

I had heartburn last night so I took a rennie, which is made by Bayer who were interwoven into the third Reich, so I was suppose I was being a Nazi again.

THE_SHEEP

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Bit hyperbolic there Mark.

Have the vintners assoc started lobbying to have Fr Matthew's statue removed from Patrick Street in Cork because he advocated temperance?

Has there been calls to fling The Little Mermaid into the sea?

What about Molly Malone? Have the butchers complained she is pro -cockles and mussles and bad for their business?

Has this cancel culture mob called for The Angel of The North to be toppled?

The Famine memorial?

Kindred Spirits?

Statue of Liberty???

No.
None of that has happened and it is unlikely to happen because not one of those statues is a memorial to a 'worthy' who made their fortune off human misery.

Personally I would have no issue if a statue of their victims was placed along side them showing the other side - but who wants to see a depiction of a chained slave in city centres? Bad for the tourist industries dontcherknow.

Going by the lastest events / occurrences , anything is possible. Radicals on both sides / woke brigades ( and the people who encourage said persons to further their own agenda ) , once they " stir the mob " , can seemingly target and destroy what they please .

I have no problem with peaceful marches /
peaceful protesting as regards rights etc . But , what has taken place lately is fanatical cult like behavior + Mob rule .

No place in a " Democracy " for conduct like this , or for the people who take part in / encourage / condone such behavior .

ricero

ricero wrote: »

Deleting history is a truly dangerous precedent. Its quite frightening how these "woke" nazis are allowed get away with this.

I read today that the critically acclaimed and iconic film "gone with the wind" has now been cancelled. Its absurd.

It's not deleted, it's going to be put in a museum....

Gone With The Wind is temporarily removed from HBO Maxx, a disclaimer about the views of the time is being added, other films already have this.

robinph

ricero wrote: »

I read today that the critically acclaimed and iconic film "gone with the wind" has now been cancelled. Its absurd.

Temporarily removed whilst they create some additional content to go along side it and explain the context.

Something that will now happen to the statue in Bristol which is temporarily on the bottom of the harbour and will soon get stuck up in a museum with some more content around it explaining the context of why there was a statue put up, why half the city was named after him and why he ended up in the bottom of the harbour.