Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Suffragettes were not one hundred percent peaceful(they damaged public property and engaged in plenty of violence) . Both
protesting legitimate injustices. They are both activists or "thugs" for those who disagree.

So do you think violence is justified if you feel a sense of injustice? Would you condone violence by Tommy Robinson if he felt legitimate sense of injustice?

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who engages in thuggish behaviour deserves the term thugs.

People who wish to preserve public property do not.

What if they engage in thuggish behaviour while allegedly trying to preserve property?

The far-right are the no. 1 domestic terror threat across the western world. You know this though, you just prefer to pretend that people fighting bigotry are spoiled brats.

Left-wing groups are not considered a risk at all by intelligence agencies, regardless of what the orange donkey says.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So do you think violence is justified if you feel a sense of injustice? Would you condone violence by Tommy Robinson if he felt legitimate sense of injustice?

It may be unpalatable but at times yes it can be. I would actually say the violence of the blm protests has been largely blown out of proportion. Pulling down the statue wasn't an act of violence btw. In fact, in contrast to the Suffragettes any acts of violence are incredibly tame.

https://www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/articles/suffragettes-violence-and-militancy

Btw, in the United States particularly there has been immense violence from the police for no justified reason. Eg the 75 year old man that was pushed over in Buffalo has brain damage. It's pretty clear you don't actually think that BLM is drawing attention to real issues though.

lawrencesummers

Niallof9 wrote: »

Are you sure about that? There is some scientists like Richard Dawkins, for example who are now considered in that vein. Its not a far leap to get to a stage where say forcing people to get vaccines, such as the orthodox Jewish community in New York will be seen as racist etc. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/11/9/18068036/measles-new-york-orthodox-jewish-community-vaccines

Peterson, Hitchens, Dawkins for example (no matter the personal views on them) all these videos online talking about a certain religion. Dawkins was already cancelled on some circuits. Whatever you think about him, he is a man of science and facts who is equal opportunity atheist. To be anti religion, well i should say only anti-islam is now racist. Despite the religion being against everything the young people marching for BLM stand for. They stone gays, punish women, abuse children and on and on.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/richard-dawkins-allahu-akhbar-church-bells-criticism-religion-a8451141.html

https://www.afsc.org/blogs/news-and-commentary/your-dinner-guest-makes-islamophobic-comment-how-do-you-respond


Its quite clear if you've been paying attention this is the route we are heading down. As far back as 2013. So yeah he's completely correct in what he saids and far from the only person saying it.

The cancel culture which is basically what he has shorthanded has been going strong for years. And much of it is anti-science and anti critical thinking. Its just the race part of the cancel culture has taken a back seat to women rights, Islamophobia, etc. Now it is the race relations turn. Rightly or wrongly, but this is what he means i presume.

The theory of a clash of civilisations is even older.

Why cant posters read what’s actually posted?

Your gone off on one about Dawkins, when I just pointed out that nobody thinks Science / Vaccines / space ships etc are Racist.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It may be unpalatable but at times yes it can be. I would actually say the violence of the blm protests has been largely blown out of proportion. Pulling down the statue wasn't an act of violence btw. In fact, in contrast to the Suffragettes any acts of violence are incredibly tame.

https://www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/articles/suffragettes-violence-and-militancy

Btw, in the United States particularly there has been immense violence from the police for no justified reason. Eg the 75 year old man that was pushed over in Buffalo has brain damage. It's pretty clear you don't actually think that BLM is drawing attention to real issues though.

Fair dues for giving a straight up answer to my question. It is rare on Boards.

Fwiw I think black people are facing issues in america but nobody is talking about it. I think they fatherless children and black on black violence are far bigger issues

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It may be unpalatable but at times yes it can be. I would actually say the violence of the blm protests has been largely blown out of proportion. Pulling down the statue wasn't an act of violence btw. In fact, in contrast to the Suffragettes any acts of violence are incredibly tame.

https://www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/articles/suffragettes-violence-and-militancy

Btw, in the United States particularly there has been immense violence from the police for no justified reason. Eg the 75 year old man that was pushed over in Buffalo has brain damage. It's pretty clear you don't actually think that BLM is drawing attention to real issues though.

Fair dues for giving a straight up answer to my question. It is rare on Boards.

Fwiw I think black people are facing issues in america but nobody is talking about it. I think they fatherless children and black on black violence are far bigger issues

Danzy

Episodes of Fawlty Towers being pulled now.

Nermal

Deleted User wrote: »

The Suffragettes were not one hundred percent peaceful(they damaged public property and engaged in plenty of violence) . Both
protesting legitimate injustices.

There is absolutely no equivalence. The Suffragettes were discriminated against in law. What's the Bristol branch of BLM equivalent of the Representation of the People Act 1884?

ohnonotgmail

Nermal wrote: »

There is absolutely no equivalence. The Suffragettes were discriminated against in law. What's the Bristol branch of BLM equivalent of the Representation of the People Act 1884?

so there is no discrimination against black people? i'm glad we cleared that up

malinheader

Danzy wrote: »

Episodes of Fawlty Towers being pulled now.

Really feel for the younger generation. There going to be bombarded with political correctness gone mad.

Niallof9

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Why cant posters read what’s actually posted?

Your gone off on one about Dawkins, when I just pointed out that nobody thinks Science / Vaccines / space ships etc are Racist.

I did read it. you called him out. Some People do think science and reason or at least people of science and reason are racist. Hence why i used the example of Dawkins. A man of science who has been called racist for being an aethiest. He obviously used a shorthand to describe it, but this is what i took from what he said. Maybe you should read what he said. or at least have the ability to read subtext. there is clear evidence, apart from spaceships, of what he saids being true. Hopefully its only a minority.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/racism-row-french-doctors-suggest-virus-vaccine-test-africa-200404054304466.html

And obviously science was racist for a long time, so maybe there is still a distrust there.

Racism is a scurge. Efforts to stamp it out are long overdue. Like a zero tolerance policy. Yet with this cancel/revisionist/whitewashing of history, it sets a dangerous precedence. I presume you were calling him out for being ott on it. It is happening in front of our eyes, and for me the trojan horse is fundamentalist Islam and the dangers around allowing a militant set of religious fanatics wrap themselves in the cloak of racism. Obviously that has taken a backseat to African American protests and oppression but its basically what kicked it all off many moons ago.

I haven't gone off on one. I've been following this issue since i studied it in 2003. Its been going on a long time if you have been paying attention.

And now for the disclaimer, my partner is black and my child is mixed race and i'm an avowed atheist who thinks any religion subverting reason and science is an evil.

Somebody on here or another thread posted this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQjBZVssr1I&t=534s

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so there is no discrimination against black people? i'm glad we cleared that up

Maybe answer the question. The suffragettes were protesting against systemic discrimination.

Back when the word systemic actually meant something. Nowadays it's a way of adding hyperbole.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe answer the question. The suffragettes were protesting against systemic discrimination.

Back when the word systemic actually meant something. Nowadays it's a way of adding hyperbole.

when discrimination is practiced by agents of the state then it is systemic.

fergiesfolly

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so there is no discrimination against black people? i'm glad we cleared that up

That's not what Nermal said.
Quote a law that discriminates against black people.
A law, written down in a book, upheld in a court.

ohnonotgmail

fergiesfolly wrote: »

That's not what Nermal said.
Quote a law that discriminates against black people.
A law, written down in a book, upheld in a court.

why is that a requirement for discrimination to be systemic?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe answer the question. The suffragettes were protesting against systemic discrimination.

Back when the word systemic actually meant something. Nowadays it's a way of adding hyperbole.

There is systemic discrimination of black people, it's a real issue in both the UK and US particularly.

LuasSimon

We will have to pull down all the statues in Dublin next ?
Molly Malone , all the 1916 ones , Luke Kelly , Kevin Heffernan etc etc . Will this satisfy these PC people ?? .... might have to knock Heuston and Connolly station as well ??

No doubt they’ll find something wrong with all these people

LuasSimon

LuasSimon wrote: »

We will have to pull down all the statues in Dublin next ?
Molly Malone , all the 1916 ones , Luke Kelly , Kevin Heffernan etc etc . Will this satisfy these PC people ?? .... might have to knock Heuston and Connolly station as well ??

No doubt they’ll find something wrong with all these people

Luke Kelly one is an abomination let's be honest

ohnonotgmail

LuasSimon wrote: »

We will have to pull down all the statues in Dublin next ?
Molly Malone , all the 1916 ones , Luke Kelly , Kevin Heffernan etc etc . Will this satisfy these PC people ?? .... might have to knock Heuston and Connolly station as well ??

No doubt they’ll find something wrong with all these people

why would anybody want those statues pulled down?

mick087

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would anybody want those statues pulled down?

Someone somewhere will find a valid justified reason, laugh now but you wont tomorrow.

jmayo

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

People bring up Nazi Germany...

So lets have a look at the following

Hugo Boss - Manufactured SS uniforms(No Protests)

Space Travel , Satellites & Rockets - Wernher von Braun was a memeber of the Nazi Party and was protected and recruited by the USA after WWII and subsequently worked for NASA. Without Von Braun maybe the modern day technology may look very different(No Protests)

Adolf Dassler - Founder of Addidas and who was a member of the Nazi
Party(No Protests)

Adolf Busemann - Very important in Aerospace Engineering also a Nazi...Without him spacetrael could be very different, and air travel too, as he developed Sweep Wing Tech

So we need to forgot all the good they did, and only focus on the wrong things...Being a member of the Nazi may not have been a choice it may have been a matter of life & death...1930's/40's were a very different time and we need to look at these men in that light...But that is common sense...

A lot of the non scene currently being pedelled is being done in a similar manner to the Nazi's...well the Nazi predecessors more like

Oh FFS don't go there.
Next thing you know people will be attacking my VW because after all the company was founded at the behest of old Adolf.
Oh and it's original designer dabbled in tank design for the Nazi war effort.
Speaking of which every major German company would become a target due to them all helping the Nazi war effort.
Mercedes, BMW, Siemens, Bayer, BASF all worked with Nazis and some benefited from the holocaust.

And no more drinking Fanta as that was designed during the war by Coca Cola Germany as substitute for the real deal.

titan18 wrote: »

That wouldn't have been known about at the time Sean Russell was there tbf. The holocaust proper didn't kick off until midway through the war

Ehh the mass slaughter of Jews, communists, intellectuals, etc really began in summer 1941 with Operation Barbarosa.
Yes the Wannsee Conference in Berlin in January 1942 laid the plans for the mass murder in the death camps, but they were slaughtering in the forests long before then.

The Einsatzgruppen already existed at the time of the invasion of Poland in autumn 1939.

Niallof9 wrote: »

...

Peterson, Hitchens, Dawkins for example (no matter the personal views on them) all these videos online talking about a certain religion. Dawkins was already cancelled on some circuits. Whatever you think about him, he is a man of science and facts who is equal opportunity atheist. To be anti religion, well i should say only anti-islam is now racist. Despite the religion being against everything the young people marching for BLM stand for. They stone gays, punish women, abuse children and on and on.

I am waiting with bated breath to see one of these BLM spanners have a go at muslims for lauding the founder even though he had slaves.

Danzy wrote: »

Episodes of Fawlty Towers being pulled now.

What about Mind Your Language ?

nigeldaniel

All this pull it down, scrap it, ban it, and break it up that a small number of people love doing brings to mind the phrase 'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'
Anger like that serves no purpose other than to give excuses to the next generation to be lawless and delinquent.

Sheep_shear

mick087 wrote: »

Someone somewhere will find a valid justified reason, laugh now but you wont tomorrow.

The Molly Malone statue. Yes a symbol of Dublin and much loved by certain segments of the population, but it is most definitely there to re-enforce male suppression of women and sexual assault. The fact that the ample (of course the "artist" behind it was man) bosom is worn to a shine, shows just how little society thinks of women. "Get handsy lads! She's asking for it!" It's nothing more than a practice run for males before they move on flesh and blood victims. We are all objects in their eyes. Read more about why this problematic statue needs to be removed in my article at Comment is Free in tomorrow's Guardian.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You know how absurd it is since you have to concoct a nonsense hypothetical.

This is not directed at you but the majority of posts opposing the removal of Colston statue involve a "nonsense hypothetical" example will we have to "take down the pyramids" or "rename Columbia"

mick087

Yep Someone somewhere will find a valid justified reason for anything.

joe40

LuasSimon wrote: »

We will have to pull down all the statues in Dublin next ?
Molly Malone , all the 1916 ones , Luke Kelly , Kevin Heffernan etc etc . Will this satisfy these PC people ?? .... might have to knock Heuston and Connolly station as well ??

No doubt they’ll find something wrong with all these people

And the "nonsense hypotheticals" keep going.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

when discrimination is practiced by agents of the state then it is systemic.

When black people say they are discriminated against it is very difficult to know for sure if it is based on the colour of their skin. You know the term race card derived for a reason I.e. people crying racism in order to get what they want.

By contrast the suffragettes had a very clear goal and it was clear cut the wrong that they were trying to right.

So comparing BLM to the suffragettes is apples and pears.

I think the Black Panthers and BLM seem like more of a parallel.

malinheader

malinheader wrote: »

Really feel for the younger generation. There going to be bombarded with political correctness gone mad.

I feel sorry that they will grow up thinking programmes like the Big Bang theory were the height of comedy. Sterile, fluffy and totally devoid of anything resembling an edge. Sad.

Nermal

Capitulation:

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1271373255329435650

VonLuck

Danzy wrote: »

Episodes of Fawlty Towers being pulled now.

Wasn't the whole point to show that the Major was a bit of an oddball and out of touch with reality? It wasn't promoting racism in the slightest.

Can TV no longer portray people behaving in a less than perfect manner?