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Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

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    #2012
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,476 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I assume by decolonize they mean ‘colonial’ content will be moved to a restricted collection. Nobody is burning books. You can still access Mein Kampf can’t you? And I hear the guy who wrote it was a bit of a pr!ck.


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    #2013
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭Nermal


    walshb wrote: »
    Hearing absolute scutter debate now about the likes of Christopher Columbus. A man who lived 600 fooking years ago..And people today giving out about his statue... wtf...

    We can go older still...

    https://order-order.com/2020/06/12/must-robert-the-bruce-fall/


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    #2014
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Seems that they have discovered some new history from inside the statue:

    https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/amazing-secrets-revealed-inside-colstons-statue/

    And a bicycle tyre.

    Of course if the statue had just been removed and stuck in a warehouse for a few decades and then melted down for scrap they wouldn't have found anything inside it.


  • Options
    #2015
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Nermal wrote: »
    We can go older still...

    https://order-order.com/2020/06/12/must-robert-the-bruce-fall/

    Everyone is a target.

    Everything is a target.


  • Options
    #2016
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Danzy wrote: »
    Everyone is a target.

    Everything is a target.

    Correct. And a get out of jail card free for alot of the idiots who are doing this.


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    #2017
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    And Fawlty Towers is back again before anyone even noticed it was missing, and with just a warning notice added as expected.

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jun/12/john-cleese-attacks-stupid-removal-of-fawlty-towers-episode

    Calm down the outrage everybody. You are still allowed to laugh.


  • Options
    #2018
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Nermal wrote: »
    We can go older still...

    https://order-order.com/2020/06/12/must-robert-the-bruce-fall/

    Everyone is a target.

    Everything is a target.


  • Options
    #2019
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    robinph wrote: »
    And Fawlty Towers is back again before anyone even noticed it was missing, and with just a warning notice added as expected.

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jun/12/john-cleese-attacks-stupid-removal-of-fawlty-towers-episode

    Calm down the outrage everybody. You are still allowed to laugh.

    Don't mention the war...

    Glazers Out!



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    #2020
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    nullzero wrote: »
    Don't mention the war...

    Exactly, because the episode was never pulled (temporarily) because of that line.


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    #2021
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    robinph wrote: »
    Exactly, because the episode was never pulled (temporarily) because of that line.

    I was joking. You know? Trying to be humorous.

    Glazers Out!



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    #2022
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    What party is driving the PC mob agenda in this country ? Sinn Fein , People before profit , some other far left conglomerate??


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    #2023
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    What party is driving the PC mob agenda in this country ? Sinn Fein , People before profit , some other far left conglomerate??

    All of them. Nobody wants to speak out about the totally over the top PC agenda that is happening. Not one of them would want to be seen as the R word and jeopardise their massive money jobs and massive pensions.


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    #2024
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    The idea that the presence of a statue constitutes the de facto "veneration" of the individual depicted is pure idiocy. Art tells a story.


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    #2025
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    The idea that the presence of a statue constitutes the de facto "veneration" of the individual depicted is pure idiocy. Art tells a story.

    What story does a statue of "the most virtuous son" of the city, on a street named after them, infront of a tower block named after them and beside a concert venue named after them tell you?

    That is literally all the information that you have to go on to form your opinion of this person on passing where the statue used to reside.


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    #2026
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    1800_Ladladlad wrote: »
    The "burning of the books" will now commence soon..........

    https://twitter.com/RHUL_Library/status/1271414239018844160

    This library think their actions will make them safe. They are like Graham Linehan and JK Rowling.

    They will never do enough to appease the mob. It is a constant and ever increasing list of demands.


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    #2027
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    robinph wrote: »
    What story does a statue of "the most virtuous son" of the city, on a street named after them, infront of a tower block named after them and beside a concert venue named after them tell you?

    That is literally all the information that you have to go on to form your opinion of this person on passing where the statue used to reside.




    Well the Statue has gone now. The tower name has gone, streets and the concert hall will follow. The older generation will still use the old names, the young generation will use the new names, the next generation will have no idea who he was.


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    #2028
    nickkinneg
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭nickkinneg


    Apparently a lot of demonstrations planned today all over england - BLM are demanding Winston Churchill's status to be removed - what exactly are the government doing? This most be the worst government in living memory. Not sure about their previous leaders - but I reckon Thatcher would have stopped this before it even got out the gate... that type of person


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    #2029
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    robinph wrote: »
    What story does a statue of "the most virtuous son" of the city, on a street named after them, infront of a tower block named after them and beside a concert venue named after them tell you?

    That is literally all the information that you have to go on to form your opinion of this person on passing where the statue used to reside.

    Its no more active veneration, then the statues of Marx in London, Berlin and many other cities suggest that London etc venerates Marx (who by the way defended slavery in the Americas).


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    #2030
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    nickkinneg wrote: »
    Apparently a lot of demonstrations planned today all over england - BLM are demanding Winston Churchill's status to be removed - what exactly are the government doing? This most be the worst government in living memory. Not sure about their previous leaders - but I reckon Thatcher would have stopped this before it even got out the gate... that type of person

    Pritti Patel is showing a lot more drive and balls than BoJo.

    He is a damp squib if ever I've seen one.


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    #2031
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    nickkinneg wrote: »
    Apparently a lot of demonstrations planned today all over england - BLM are demanding Winston Churchill's status to be removed - what exactly are the government doing? This most be the worst government in living memory. Not sure about their previous leaders - but I reckon Thatcher would have stopped this before it even got out the gate... that type of person




    I think BLM have pulled out of the protests because far right groups was going to protest to.



    Thatcher a strong leader no doubt about that, in the UK people loved her or hated her there is no inbeteen with her.


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    #2032
    nickkinneg
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭nickkinneg


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Pritti Patel is showing a lot more drive and balls than BoJo.

    He is a damp squib if ever I've seen one.

    Yeah i agree she has shown some promise for strong leadership recently


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    #2033
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    mick087 wrote: »
    Well the Statue has gone now. The tower name has gone, streets and the concert hall will follow. The older generation will still use the old names, the young generation will use the new names, the next generation will have no idea who he was.

    But it was claimed that the statue told a story. Curious what story people think that particular statue was telling anyone?

    It will now tell a story due to the way it was removed, it wasn't telling that story before and it wouldn't have been telling that story if it had been just taken down quietly in the middle of the night by some council workers.

    If someone had been inclined to research the guy before this week to find out who he was and why half of Bristol was named after him I really don't see that as showing a great image of the city and what they value.


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    #2034
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    This library think their actions will make them safe. They are like Graham Linehan and JK Rowling.

    They will never do enough to appease the mob. It is a constant and ever increasing list of demands.

    You are outraged because a library has given book recommendations? That's literally what you're complaining about.... No threat of removing books, nothing. It also tends to be right wing groups that are the biggest challengers to try and get books banned. Eg books with gay characters etc.


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    #2035
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    robinph wrote: »
    But it was claimed that the statue told a story. Curious what story people think that particular statue was telling anyone?

    It will now tell a story due to the way it was removed, it wasn't telling that story before and it wouldn't have been telling that story if it had been just taken down quietly in the middle of the night by some council workers.

    If someone had been inclined to research the guy before this week to find out who he was and why half of Bristol was named after him I really don't see that as showing a great image of the city and what they value.
    History is not about values, it's what happened, the good and the bad. You can't just rub it out. Ignoring aspects of it is rewriting history to suit yourself and as blinkered as wholesale unquestioned veneration of the past.


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    #2036
    Chicoso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭Chicoso


    Are our statues safe?


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    #2037
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    robinph wrote: »
    But it was claimed that the statue told a story. Curious what story people think that particular statue was telling anyone?

    It will now tell a story due to the way it was removed, it wasn't telling that story before and it wouldn't have been telling that story if it had been just taken down quietly in the middle of the night by some council workers.

    If someone had been inclined to research the guy before this week to find out who he was and why half of Bristol was named after him I really don't see that as showing a great image of the city and what they value.




    Your so right it did not tell the full story, and it should of done. The mayor of Bristol has many questions to answer about this statue.
    There should of been a plauge on this statue about his part in the slave trade.

    What we have is a group of people who no one has any idea who they are or why they did it? Who would they these people be accountable to after pulling down a statue?

    The statue is in a museum now. What should it be replaced with? Who will decide what to replace it with?


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    #2038
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    is_that_so wrote: »
    History is not about values, it's what happened, the good and the bad. You can't just rub it out. Ignoring aspects of it is rewriting history to suit yourself and as blinkered as wholesale unquestioned veneration of the past.

    ...and what did the statue of Colston on a street named after him, in front of a tower named after him, beside a concert hall named after him on a plinth telling us all that he was a great lad tell us about him or any history?

    What history do you now think will be learnt by the statue covered in paint being installed in a museum covering slavery and history of Bristol? More or less than it was possible to easily discover than last week?

    As for him being erased from history, that's total nonsense. His name is everywhere around Bristol, even after the names of various buildings/ streets/ schools have all been changed he will still be very much present in the historical maps of the city. Even after the museum has closed and the exhibit closed down the name of Colston will still be found by anyone looking into the history of the city and they will wonder why his name was everywhere in the city until the early part of the 21st century.

    As for the other statues being removed, less will be remembered about them in most cases quite likely. But maybe they didn't do anything rememberable?


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    #2039
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are outraged because a library has given book recommendations? That's literally what you're complaining about.... No threat of removing books, nothing. It also tends to be right wing groups that are the biggest challengers to try and get books banned. Eg books with gay characters etc.

    They're acting like it's the fall of Saigon. Quick! Get on a helicopter to the safety of Bernardmanningsland before someone comes along a tuts at you for saying 'coloured' instead of black.


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    #2040
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This library think their actions will make them safe. They are like Graham Linehan and JK Rowling.

    They will never do enough to appease the mob. It is a constant and ever increasing list of demands.

    tHeY arE nOt BuRniNg bo0kS wTf


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    #2041
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    mick087 wrote: »
    Your so right it did not tell the full story, and it should of done. The mayor of Bristol has many questions to answer about this statue.
    There should of been a plauge on this statue about his part in the slave trade.

    There should have been a plaque put up, and the mayor wanted one. But the version of text he was presented with to provide that further information on him had been sanitised to within an inch of it's life such that it didn't really change anything so he rejected it and told them to come up with a better version.

    If he'd accepted the version that had been proposed it would then have been even more difficult to get properly corrected at a later date so he was totally correct to reject the proposed wording.


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