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Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

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    #2042
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    robinph wrote: »
    ...and what did the statue of Colston on a street named after him, in front of a tower named after him, beside a concert hall named after him on a plinth telling us all that he was a great lad tell us about him or any history?

    What history do you now think will be learnt by the statue covered in paint being installed in a museum covering slavery and history of Bristol? More or less than it was possible to easily discover than last week?

    As for him being erased from history, that's total nonsense. His name is everywhere around Bristol, even after the names of various buildings/ streets/ schools have all been changed he will still be very much present in the historical maps of the city. Even after the museum has closed and the exhibit closed down the name of Colston will still be found by anyone looking into the history of the city and they will wonder why his name was everywhere in the city until the early part of the 21st century.

    As for the other statues being removed, less will be remembered about them in most cases quite likely. But maybe they didn't do anything rememberable?
    Not entirely sure what this post is about. Apart from your "issues" with statues in general you don't seem to want to accept anything about history you dislike. Pull a thread out of it and you can't say where it will unravel. Point a finger at any historical figure or period and you can find something the 21st century finds distasteful. The past builds the present, you can't deny it but you can look to understand its effect, both good and bad.


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    #2043
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    robinph wrote: »
    There should have been a plaque put up, and the mayor wanted one. But the version of text he was presented with to provide that further information on him had been sanitised to within an inch of it's life such that it didn't really change anything so he rejected it and told them to come up with a better version.

    If he'd accepted the version that had been proposed it would then have been even more difficult to get properly corrected at a later date so he was totally correct to reject the proposed wording.


    Do we know what this wording was?

    The Bristol Mayor is accountable to to the Bristol people the next election i believe is 2021. He will have a platform as will other candidates over this subject.The local people of Bristol can then vote.


    Do you know who pulled the statue down? Do you know why they did this? Do you know who they are accountable to?


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    #2044
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You are outraged because a library has given book recommendations? That's literally what you're complaining about.... No threat of removing books, nothing. It also tends to be right wing groups that are the biggest challengers to try and get books banned. Eg books with gay characters etc.

    I am not outraged nor did I imply outrage.

    I am just bemused at how institutions capitulate to this nonsense and expect that they will be safe from further demands. This is not a static situation. What is OK today will be deemed racist and toxic in 5 or 10 years time.


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    #2045
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    mick087 wrote: »
    Do we know what this wording was?

    The Bristol Mayor is accountable to to the Bristol people the next election i believe is 2021. He will have a platform as will other candidates over this subject.The local people of Bristol can then vote.


    Do you know who pulled the statue down? Do you know why they did this? Do you know who they are accountable to?

    Here is an explanation of the various draft versions that they went through:

    https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/the-edward-colston-corrective-plaque/


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    #2046
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    History is not about values, it's what happened, the good and the bad. You can't just rub it out. Ignoring aspects of it is rewriting history to suit yourself and as blinkered as wholesale unquestioned veneration of the past.

    It should be as simple as that however history is constantly being revised, I am waiting for the next BBC feature or Hollywood movie to focus on how NASA couldn't have put a man on the moon without the work of the black trans women of colour.


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    #2047
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not entirely sure what this post is about. Apart from your "issues" with statues in general you don't seem to want to accept anything about history you dislike. Pull a thread out of it and you can't say where it will unravel. Point a finger at any historical figure or period and you can find something the 21st century finds distasteful. The past builds the present, you can't deny it but you can look to understand its effect, both good and bad.

    No problem with statues.

    Do have a problem with a statue which isn't wanted that celebrates someone whose views do not represent the people where it located.


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    #2048
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I am not outraged nor did I imply outrage.

    I am just bemused at how institutions capitulate to this nonsense and expect that they will be safe from further demands. This is not a static situation. What is OK today will be deemed racist and toxic in 5 or 10 years time.

    They voluntarily put up the book list. A library putting up a list of books about a topic is pretty normal... Meanwhile ye're behaving as if they've lit up their book collection. In fairness, you are coming across as outraged. Honestly, you seem annoyed that people are acknowledging systemic issues that you'd prefer to deny exist...


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    #2049
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    robinph wrote: »
    Here is an explanation of the various draft versions that they went through:

    https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/the-edward-colston-corrective-plaque/




    Thanks that was a good read.


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    #2050
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    robinph wrote: »
    Here is an explanation of the various draft versions that they went through:

    https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/the-edward-colston-corrective-plaque/

    And here the group that got so involved in the re wording of the proposed plaque admits that they were wrong and the statue should be in a museum :

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/society-merchant-venturers-admit-inappropriate-4222735.amp


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    #2051
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Chicoso wrote: »
    Are our statues safe?

    Doubt it , is there some protest at Molly Malone statue off Grafton street ? ... not sure what she did wrong not that it matters to the far left PC mob in this country


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    #2052
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It should be as simple as that however history is constantly being revised, I am waiting for the next BBC feature or Hollywood movie to focus on how NASA couldn't have put a man on the moon without the work of the black trans women of colour.

    Can you give me one example of history been revised, in recent times.

    Were the cowboy and Indian films from the 50s an accurate portrayal of history.


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    #2053
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    robinph wrote: »
    And here the group that got so involved in the re wording of the proposed plaque admits that they were wrong and the statue should be in a museum :

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/society-merchant-venturers-admit-inappropriate-4222735.amp


    Its all well and good them apologising after the fact. But they have stepped forward and apologised. The Society of Merchant Venturers in Bristol members are known and pictures are on there website. We know who these are and they will be accountable to the people of Bristol.

    Now we need to find out who actually pulled the statue down, there reason for doing it and who they are accountable to?


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    #2054
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Doubt it , is there some protest at Molly Malone statue off Grafton street ? ... not sure what she did wrong not that it matters to the far left PC mob in this country

    She sold cockles and mussels but left out clams and oysters. The clams and oysters now think they were discriminated against. It's a disgrace.


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    #2055
    Chicoso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭Chicoso


    malinheader wrote: »
    She sold cockles and mussels but left out clams and oysters. The clams and oysters now think they were discriminated against. It's a disgrace.

    Wouldn't it be the far right not the far left


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    #2056
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Chicoso wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be the far right not the far left

    More like the far out. Crazy stuff.


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    #2057
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Chicoso wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be the far right not the far left

    The far left don’t care they’d protest at two flys going up a wall !!


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    #2058
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    mick087 wrote: »
    Do we know what this wording was?

    The Bristol Mayor is accountable to to the Bristol people the next election i believe is 2021. He will have a platform as will other candidates over this subject.The local people of Bristol can then vote.


    Do you know who pulled the statue down? Do you know why they did this? Do you know who they are accountable to?

    Were the people who pulled down the statute from Bristol even from or living in Bristol ?


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    #2059
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    The far left don’t care they’d protest at two flys going up a wall !!

    And then fight amongst themselves and as per usual achieve nothing . Bless them


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    #2060
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    The far left don’t care they’d protest at two flys going up a wall !!

    This has fuck all to do do with the "left" in any form. It's a bunch of single issue screamers who get their "thoughts" from cheap American identity culture war bullshit.

    Most of those egits tearing down that statue wouldn't know a left wing principle from a hole in the wall.


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    #2061
    Chicoso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭Chicoso


    The far right in a standoff against BLM over in the UK

    Some shambles over there


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    #2062
    nickkinneg
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭nickkinneg


    Chicoso wrote: »
    The far right in a standoff against BLM over in the UK

    Some shambles over there
    Not all far right if you include the ex veterans and all that, OAPS etc. they just dont want their history destroyed - after putting their lives on the line for their country - if its not already - this situation could escalate to something very dangerous - if its not put down quick - other option is the government identify some of these protestors - remove their benefits, NHS care and if furloughed - remove that as well - wont be long complaining


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    #2063
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    Were the people who pulled down the statute from Bristol even from or living in Bristol ?


    This is what i would like to know.

    Who was they?
    Why did they do it?
    Who are they accountable to?

    These are not unreasonable questions.

    I underastand and belive in direct action can should be used at times. When it is used you need to stand up and and account for your actions.


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    #2064
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    nickkinneg wrote: »
    Not all far right if you include the ex veterans and all that, OAPS etc. they just dont want their history destroyed - after putting their lives on the line for their country - if its not already - this situation could escalate to something very dangerous - if its not put down quick - other option is the government identify some of these protestors - remove their benefits, NHS care and if furloughed - remove that as well - wont be long complaining

    Statues are not History. The IRA did not destroy Irish history when they blew up Nelson's Column.

    I get different opinions on this issue, I just don't agree about the destroying history part.


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    #2065
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    The Uk is anti white central.
    Fly the Union Jack or St.George flag, must be a racist white nazi
    Take pride in English achievements, 100% white nazi
    They have allowed a small minority of woke idiots to take the Reins, Ireland is a coming up toward the same crossroads on these issues, we have Leo telling us the civil service is too white, i'd expect it to be in a white country, we have foreigners telling us we are nasty racist bigots, Who asked them to come to Ireland. why they stay here if we natives are so bad?
    Why are all these woke people and the BAME folk suffering in the white world when they could go to any one of the Wakanda paradises in Africa and live there?


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    #2066
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Chicoso wrote: »
    The far right in a standoff against BLM over in the UK

    Some shambles over there

    People out together to protect structures/monuments from damaged or vandalism because the police are not doing to it themselves and are not willing to use adequate force to sort vermin rioters out and maintain the peace, but yet they are far rightt:rolleyes: If were in WW2 times and the Germans did manage to invade Britain, The left would side with the Germans and blame GB. Pathetic


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    #2067
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    Were the people who pulled down the statute from Bristol even from or living in Bristol ?

    Why wouldn't they be from Bristol?

    Every city hsd a protest of some kind last week, there was no need to travel to one, and until last week it was only the people of Bristol who had heard of Colston or had any wish to have his statue taken down.


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    #2068
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    da_miser wrote: »
    The Uk is anti white central.
    Fly the Union Jack or St.George flag, must be a racist white nazi
    Take pride in English achievements, 100% white nazi
    They have allowed a small minority of woke idiots to take the Reins, Ireland is a coming up toward the same crossroads on these issues, we have Leo telling us the civil service is too white, i'd expect it to be in a white country, we have foreigners telling us we are nasty racist bigots, Who asked them to come to Ireland. why they stay here if we natives are so bad?
    Why are all these woke people and the BAME folk suffering in the white world when they could go to any one of the Wakanda paradises in Africa and live there?




    There does seem to be an issue being English and proud.
    But thats an issue the English have to sort address for themselves.

    My time living in the UK i found them to be a very open tolerant race of people. I seen churches religions food art music from all over the world. I seen people from all over the world living working togeather with little to no problems.

    I also seen bad racism fighting hooliganism trouble makers.


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    #2069
    shaveAbullock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭shaveAbullock


    seen?


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    #2070
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    https://imgur.com/QlUoOhT

    Posted without comment


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    #2071
    nickkinneg
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭nickkinneg


    Not sure why the BLM want to pull down Churchill - if he hadn't won the war - they must likely would be living under the Nazis and there wouldn't be any black people to begin with? Would make more sense for the far right to want to take him down? Some people are confusing patriotism with racism. At the end of the day all lives matter.


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