Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

El_Duderino 09

Danzy wrote: »

It's about them at this stage and I personally feel it is long gone past counterproductive for black people and that the middle class white activists will keep going till they get bored with it, keep damaging till they walk away.

I'm sure you're very concerned for the fortunes of BLM. Maybe you can raise your concerns at the next BLM meeting you attend. Lol.

Of all things, don't pretend to be concerned for BLM. I get what you're doing, you're looking for any angle to diminish the movement. Fair play but feigned concern isn't going to wash.

robinph

Danzy wrote: »

It is but that is not what is happening here.

????

Do you mean that people don't care about other people?

Cupatae

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Is it fair qualified people aren't getting these jobs in the first place because of their skin colour?

It seems strange that you condemn bullying despite condoning racism.

This is exactly the attitude im on about at what point did i condone being racist to anyone?

This is the standard agenda now tho.. if u dont completely concede to every point of blm your a racist.And thats the problem with the whole movement and the people that fanatically follow it.

Isnt skin color ironically being used now to target getting those people into jobs... we ll give more "colored" people jobs...our civil service and army are a little too white ect..

We dont want black people to be judged on the color of there skin.. but you have the above happening aswell its abit hypocritical.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cupatae wrote: »

This is exactly the attitude im on about at what point did i condone being racist to anyone?

Apologies - the "you" was not meant specifically. Bad choice of words on my part.

My point being : if someone is racist, they are being the bully in the first place. You can't complain about them bullied by someone else as a result.

Yellow_Fern

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ah, the old red herring fallacy

In the event that what you are depicting here are atually real proveable documented happenings (not saying they arent, but it IS you) then I would agree with you.

Anyway, back on track: is it ok to condone bullying while condemning racism? And I never for once said it was happening specfici to one side of the spectrum: that was your smokescreen, not mine.

In the US, the average medical school student who is black wave given a place on a significantly lower score than the average Asian and to a less extent white. I have friends who lost their places to such positive discrimination measures. That is very cut example. https://i.redd.it/a0jwk4cr8c501.png

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

In the US, the average medical school student who is black wave given a place on a significantly lower score than the average Asian and to a less extent white. I have friends who lost their places to such positive discrimination measures. That is very cut example. https://i.redd.it/a0jwk4cr8c501.png

And I would totally disagree with the practice.

suicide_circus

I hear there is to be a protest outside the Pakistani embassy in London tomorrow about the 2 million people currently enslaved in Pakistan.

Cupatae

robinph wrote: »

Is being racist a protected category now? Are racists being victimised because they cannot practice their racism? It's not something that there is a balance of opinion on.

You can have an opinion on the effects of racism and how it effects people, but racism itself is not something that is a matter of opinion.

You are right racism is not an opinion, but some racism is more cared about than other racism , you can't solve race problems for one race by bashing another race , which there is alot of right now.

But that said telling the truth isn't racist either , black lives 100% matter, but black people in America often times put themselves in stupid positions due to dumb decisions... More than one thing can be true at a time.

robinph

Of course we'll now be told that it's what was being asked for after throwing the statue of Colston in the harbour:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53089528

But this was someones actual grave, said far more about who the person was on the grave stone and actually told us everything that anyone knew about Scipio. Unlike Colstons statue which said he was a great bloke even though we knew he wasn't. This grave stone was well known and really stood out. Unlike most grave stones if you passed this you'd stop and read it and wonder who he was.

Thing is that you wouldn't just happen to pass the gravestone as it's in an out of the way churchyard, well out of town and not really on the way anywhere. You'd have to head off deliberately in search of this.

NIMAN

Where does this stop?

We now have insurance companies apologising for things that happened in the 18th century ffs.


And re: the football start up last night, I notice every single player and even the refs are taking the knee. What if they don't want to? Its like the poppy now, you have no choice and I bet you wouldn't dare not take the knee!

Nermal

robinph wrote: »

Maybe the white racists deserve a bit of mockery.

Perhaps the statue is mocking you, rather than the people you think it's mocking?

Who am I kidding, of course not. It's Banksy. Producer of 'art' with the appropriate depth for the student dorm room only.

ShamNNspace

NIMAN wrote: »

Where does this stop?

We now have insurance companies apologising for things that happened in the 18th century ffs.


And re: the football start up last night, I notice every single player and even the refs are taking the knee. What if they don't want to? Its like the poppy now, you have no choice and I bet you wouldn't dare not take the knee!

You'd wonder will the owners be "taking a knee" as well

robinph

NIMAN wrote: »

What if they don't want to?

Then I'd suggest they have a chat with any black players on their team first as both the kneeling and non-kneeling players are going to be asked about it in detail by the press afterwards.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

NIMAN wrote: »

Where does this stop?

We now have insurance companies apologising for things that happened in the 18th century ffs.

That's just business.

And re: the football start up last night, I notice every single player and even the refs are taking the knee. What if they don't want to? Its like the poppy now, you have no choice and I bet you wouldn't dare not take the knee!

Well, the question is, why would you not want to? Honest question - I'm not accusing you of anything.

It's something you need to discuss with people - or close friends - who have suffered from racism to be honest. See how they'd feel about you not wanting to show support, or about showing support in a different way.

NIMAN

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's just business.



Well, the question is, why would you not want to? Honest question - I'm not accusing you of anything.

It's something you need to discuss with people - or close friends - who have suffered from racism to be honest. See how they'd feel about you not wanting to show support, or about showing support in a different way.

Personally I would have no issue with it, but I just think that we are pressuring people into doing things now.
They aren't doing things of their own freewill any more, or based on what they think or believe.

Many are doing it out of fear.

I refer to the poppy too, where you are not allowed to not wear one now or else the mob attack you.

robinph

NIMAN wrote: »

Where does this stop?

We now have insurance companies apologising for things that happened in the 18th century ffs.

I'm sure I went on a school trip around Lloyds in the '80s (to see the futuristic building rather than learn about insurance) and they had some references to having insured slave transport ships. They are well aware of their part and almost certainly have a significant fund sitting around waiting for the next time something pops up that they need to apologise for and make a donation to some cause.

I'd doubt this is the first time, or the last, that Lloyds will be apologising for something and donating to something.

NIMAN

If this is the precedent, there are a lot of folk who need to start apologising, and they could be at it a long time, be they companies or countries.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

NIMAN wrote: »

Personally I would have no issue with it, but I just think that we are pressuring people into doing things now.
They aren't doing things of their own freewill any more, or based on what they think or believe.

Many are doing it out of fear.

I refer to the poppy too, where you are not allowed to not wear one now or else the mob attack you.

To a certain extent, I agree with you - it's peer pressure. But peer pressure is nothing new.

But it's up to the individual to say, "I don't agree with this show and I don't want to partcipate BUT that does NOT mean I disagree with you."

NIMAN wrote: »

If this is the precedent, there are a lot of folk who need to start apologising, and they could be at it a long time, be they companies or countries.

What annoys me is that there are a lot of comapnies who murky links with employment rights abuses right now - why is it ok to apologise for historical slavery while employing labour from sweatshops in the Far East?

mick087

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What annoys me is that there are a lot of comapnies who murky links with employment rights abuses right now - why is it ok to apologise for historical slavery while employing labour from sweatshops in the Far East?

Every generation blames the one before. Doing something to help people in slavery today would force many to take a long hard look at themselves. Not to have a nice car or a house in a respectful nice area where the right people live is not acceptable.

Tony EH

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What annoys me is that there are a lot of comapnies who murky links with employment rights abuses right now - why is it ok to apologise for historical slavery while employing labour from sweatshops in the Far East?

This is what's laughable about this whole thing. There's guys tearing down statues to people they never heard of because..."um slavery or sommat"...and they're wearing Levi's and Nike's. 1st World companies that use the poor of 3rd world countries TODAY in appalling labour conditions, that are little better than slave like, so that they can make obscene profits hocking their wears to gobshites who'll happily pay over the odds for their labels.

These people would be serving a far better cause boycotting the wears of those big corporations because of their abusive labour practices around the world.

And every company jumping on this bandwagon should be called out for the PR exercises they're engaging in, because that's all they're doing.

robinph

Tony EH wrote: »

This is what's laughable about this whole thing. There's guys tearing down statues to people they never heard of because..."um slavery or sommat"...and they're wearing Levi's and Nike's. 1st World companies that use the poor of 3rd world countries TODAY in appalling labour conditions, that are little better than slave like, so that they can make obscene profits hocking their wears to gobshites who'll happily pay over the odds for their labels.

These people would be serving a far better cause boycotting the wears of those big corporations because of their abusive labour practices around the world.

And every company jumping on this bandwagon should be called out for the PR exercises they're engaging in, because that's all they're doing.

Absolutely, and the tearing down of the statue has now given you the platform to point these things out.

NIMAN

A statue is an easy target.

"but you want me to give up my Levi and Nike's, and my iPhone 11? But I like them so I do"

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mick087 wrote: »

Every generation blames the one before. Doing something to help people in slavery today would force many to take a long hard look at themselves. Not to have a nice car or a house in a respectful nice area where the right people live is not acceptable.

They'd still be any to have the stuff - it would just first a lot more. And for a lot of people, there ethical stance fades when their pocket is hit.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Tony EH wrote: »

This is what's laughable about this whole thing. There's guys tearing down statues to people they never heard of because..."um slavery or sommat"...and they're wearing Levi's and Nike's. 1st World companies that use the poor of 3rd world countries TODAY in appalling labour conditions, that are little better than slave like, so that they can make obscene profits hocking their wears to gobshites who'll happily pay over the odds for their labels.

These people would be serving a far better cause boycotting the wears of those big corporations because of their abusive labour practices around the world.

And every company jumping on this bandwagon should be called out for the PR exercises they're engaging in, because that's all they're doing.

More the companies. A lot of the protestors are well aware and boycott such products. You won't see many nikes at a genuine protest (they can't afford them for one thing!).

malinheader

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

More the companies. A lot of the protestors are well aware and boycott such products. You won't see many nikes at a genuine protest (they can't afford them for one thing!).

There is not to many genuine protests then if the crowds don't wear Nike, Levi's, and Adidas etc.then.
I remember a fella sitting by a luas station once begging with a coffee cup wearing a pair of Nike air at over €120 at the time. I Don't think people really care where or how these items are made.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

malinheader wrote: »

There is not to many genuine protests then if the crowds don't wear Nike, Levi's, and Adidas etc.then.
I remember a fella sitting by a luas station once begging with a coffee cup wearing a pair of Nike air at over €120 at the time. I Don't think people really care where or how these items are made.

You would if you actaully stopped and talked to them.

Remember: I said "most of" not "all of" - assuming that, because you saw an expensive pair of trasiners at a protest, that everyone of the hundreds of thousands is the same niaveity as assuming that every beggar is loaded because one of them had a pair of Nikes.

And I don't believe anyone pays that much attention to the footwear of tens of thousands of people at an anti-slavery protest.

malinheader

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You would if you actaully stopped and talked to them.

Remember: I said "most of" not "all of" - assuming that, because you saw an expensive pair of trasiners at a protest, that everyone of the hundreds of thousands is the same niaveity as assuming that every beggar is loaded because one of them had a pair of Nikes.

And I don't believe anyone pays that much attention to the footwear of tens of thousands of people at an anti-slavery protest.

Did I state every beggar had a new pair of Nikes. Same naivety as thinking only genuine protesters give a damn about what they're wearing. Then again very few
Of these protesters even know what they are protesting about.

marieholmfan

malinheader wrote: »

There is not to many genuine protests then if the crowds don't wear Nike, Levi's, and Adidas etc.then.
I remember a fella sitting by a luas station once begging with a coffee cup wearing a pair of Nike air at over €120 at the time. I Don't think people really care where or how these items are made.

What's the connection between the beggar and the protestors?

malinheader

marieholmfan wrote: »

What's the connection between the beggar and the protestors?

If i were a beggar in need of money I wouldn't be wearing a pair of trainers worth 120 euros. I would mostly always throw whatever loose change i would have to someone in his predicament but on this occasion seeing this I didn't. My point is do people really care about what they are wearing or where it was made and how. That's all.

Quantum Erasure

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, the question is, why would you not want to? Honest question - I'm not accusing you of anything.

"a commitment to dismantle imperialism capitalism patriarchy and state structures... "

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/1271874727410307072