Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

na1

Tony EH wrote: »

Slave owner.

Can they burn any USD notes they have?

$100 - Benjamin Franklin slave owner
$20 Andrew Jackson wealthy, slaveowning planter
$5 Abraham Lincoln racist statements

Kermit.de.frog

Give us hope Greta!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSs4nk6gwwE

joe40

na1 wrote: »

Can they burn any USD notes they have?

$100 - Benjamin Franklin slave owner
$20 Andrew Jackson wealthy, slaveowning planter
$5 Abraham Lincoln racist statements

That just shows how pervasive and endemic slavery was in American history. No wonder racism is still so rampant in the US.

Why would you suggest they burn money. It is good to have a debate with different opinions but suggesting that people should burn money is just stupid. It adds nothing.

alan partridge aha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Give us hope Greta!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSs4nk6gwwE

That's only place you should see her.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA58J4Yj_MO/?igshid=c8ew28nxf0vm

Tony EH

What BLM needs is a man like Martin Luther King, who I'd wager would be appalled by the gibberish that's going on today in the name of black people. Look at some videos of the man that are on YouTube to see the sheer difference in approach. That's how you win support for a just cause.

What we largely have in this, so called "movement", is a rudderless mess of misguided wannabes, who are more interested in their instagram moment than the are with understanding the problems they think they're fighting. These fools are led by worthless, empty, sloganeering, hash tag causes that are here today-gone tomorrow and then they move onto the next big thing to seen doing...

...and nothing changes.

Also the vast, vast, majority of people are still in the dark on just what it is, exactly, that BLM wants as a whole. I've tried to find out and am still none the wiser really, as one person will say one thing and another will say something else. "Defunding the police" seems to be a unified tenet or sorts, but honestly, that's one of the dumbest things I've heard in years and will help nobody but the criminal elements of society. Elements that prey on blacks in America and are responsible for far more misery in black communities than the police are.

However, I would wholeheartedly agree with the end of for profit jails which seems to also be an issue they want to pursue, at least in Bloomington anyway.

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

That just your opinion. Nobody is apologising for been white.

Take this analogy.
If a British person said to you, that they felt Britain's rule in Ireland made the famine worse and caused unneccesary death. A lot of Irish people would agree.

Is that British apologising to you for been British, is he trying to appease you.
No he's not, he is simply acknowledging history.

The kneeling as you well know was started by Colin Kapernick during the Anthem. It is not kneeling in deference to someone it is taking a knee in solidarity.

If Coco pops want to change their logo that will have very little affect on me.

You didn't answer the question about Nelson's column.

Its not an opinion to any self respecting person doing stuff like that to appease people is pathetic.

If a modern day british person got down on there knees apologizing to random irish people my first reaction would be " whats wrong with this clown?" why because they arent responsible for the people that came before them.


I akin it to a mental illness (those crowds kneeling and chanting) at this stage what white people are doing in the name of BLM. Those people are being exploited via guilt for something they didnt do and its wrong.

The whole its a clean cut solidarity thing isnt the case anymore its guilt tripping and you know it, you know BLM are leveraging this, just cause people are afraid to speak out against it because of the backlash doesn't make it any less true.

People are trying to apply 2020 social standards to people of the past, and its stupid...can i tear down a malcolm x statue cause he was involved in drug dealing and prostitution? what do you think the news headlines would be if someone did that? would it be "Malcolm X statue torn down because he was involved in drugs and prostitution or would it be Racists attack BLM statue."

joe40

Cupatae wrote: »

Its not an opinion to any self respecting person doing stuff like that to appease people is pathetic.

If a modern day british person got down on there knees apologizing to random irish people my first reaction would be " whats wrong with this clown?" why because they arent responsible for the people that came before them.


I akin it to a mental illness (those crowds kneeling and chanting) at this stage what white people are doing in the name of BLM. Those people are being exploited via guilt for something they didnt do and its wrong.

The whole its a clean cut solidarity thing isnt the case anymore its guilt tripping and you know it, you know BLM are leveraging this, just cause people are afraid to speak out against it because of the backlash doesn't make it any less true.

People are trying to apply 2020 social standards to people of the past, and its stupid...can i tear down a malcolm x statue cause he was involved in drug dealing and prostitution? what do you think the news headlines would be if someone did that? would it be "Malcolm X statue torn down because he was involved in drugs and prostitution or would it be Racists attack BLM statue."

If they want to do that, it's their business.

The kneeling is not in deference, it is not about pledging allegiance like kneeling to a monarch.

It is a solidarity gesture.

You can disagree all you want but you can't change the nature of the act.
It is very much a gesture of solidarity nothing more than that.
Copying Colin Kapernick original protest

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

If they want to do that, it's their business.

The kneeling is not in deference, it is not about pledging allegiance like kneeling to a monarch.

It is a solidarity gesture.

You can disagree all you want but you can't change the nature of the act.
It is very much a gesture of solidarity nothing more than that.
Copying Colin Kapernick original protest

If you think that kneeling is acceptable... ive no words, its pathetic.. its not a solidarity gesture when a black person runs up to a white person and tells em kneel in solidarity and be sorry for happened to black people.

The fact you see no problem with this behavior and pandering to this political agenda i dunno what to say.

I think this whole thing has lost its way.

You ve a really nice and clean opinion on BLM they can do no wrong in your eyes it seems... you have to at least acknowledge the bad and the things that are wrong with it.

Danzy

The cultists tore down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant, which belies their concerns about slavery. He was more effective than Abe but he had no problem with Black people.

They have torn down statutes of a Spanish priest in California, from the Spanish period there.

They'll have an excuse to tear it all down, burn any book or film.

Always will have some justification.

Rodin

na1 wrote: »

Can they burn any USD notes they have?

$100 - Benjamin Franklin slave owner
$20 Andrew Jackson wealthy, slaveowning planter
$5 Abraham Lincoln racist statements

You forgot George Washington.

joe40

Cupatae wrote: »

If you think that kneeling is acceptable... ive no words, its pathetic.. its not a solidarity gesture when a black person runs up to a white person and tells em kneel in solidarity and be sorry for happened to black people.

The fact you see no problem with this behavior and pandering to this political agenda i dunno what to say.

I think this whole thing has lost its way.

You ve a really nice and clean opinion on BLM they can do no wrong in your eyes it seems... you have to at least acknowledge the bad and the things that are wrong with it.

Well obviously forcing people to kneel is wrong, but that wasn't your gripe.
You were complaining about people choosing to do something.
As far as I'm concerned it is their choice, no skin off my nose.

jackboy

joe40 wrote: »

Well obviously forcing people to kneel is wrong, but that wasn't your gripe.
You were complaining about people choosing to do something.
As far as I'm concerned it is their choice, no skin off my nose.

The premiership players during the week were strongly coerced into kneeling. That was a disgusting action. Don’t say they had a choice. There would have been extreme retribution against anyone if they refused.

1800_Ladladlad

Tony EH wrote: »

Slave owner.

Grant briefly owned one slave which was gifted to him, He freed the slave years before the civil war. Grant was in financial trouble at the time, he could have sold the slave but freed him insteaad as he could not bear to see him chained any further or be made do work for himself or others.

As a general, fought the confederacy for the entire war and leveled the Confederacy. He clamped down hard on confederate cotton smuggling, freed tens of thousands of slaves during his western campaigns, and he fought to maintain black civil rights during his entire presidency. As president he crushed the Klan. He presided over the ratification of the 15th Amendment.

Frederick Douglass eulogized Grant as

A man too broad for prejudice, too humane to despise the humblest, too great to be small at any point. In him the Negro found a protector, the Indian a friend, a vanquished foe a brother, an imperiled nation a savior

People going after him are willing to forgo all the good done by Grant to justify their degenerative and ignorant behavior. They're simply uneducated on the matter and have no interest in knowing the facts.

joe40

jackboy wrote: »

The premiership players during the week were strongly coerced into kneeling. That was a disgusting action. Don’t say they had a choice. There would have been extreme retribution against anyone if they refused.

No you're right it would be hard for anyone to object in that circumstance. I didn't agree with that one.

I have no problem with someone showing solidarity, by "taking a knee" as they say, but if it is forced it is a hollow gesture.

2u2me

Tony EH wrote: »

Also the vast, vast, majority of people are still in the dark on just what it is, exactly, that BLM wants as a whole. I've tried to find out and am still none the wiser really, as one person will say one thing and another will say something else. "Defunding the police" seems to be a unified tenet or sorts, but honestly, that's one of the dumbest things I've heard in years and will help nobody but the criminal elements of society. Elements that prey on blacks in America and are responsible for far more misery in black communities than the police are.

The slogans etc.. are ridiculous and stupid; but their strategy is a masterpiece.

They are leaderless, so essentially unaccountable. It is all about power. They want it. They cannot stack the court of the police departments so they want to abolish them. Then they will set up the community policing and they will have the power.

Anyone who's saying 'that's not what they mean' is not listening closely enough.

Rodin

jackboy wrote: »

The premiership players during the week were strongly coerced into kneeling. That was a disgusting action. Don’t say they had a choice. There would have been extreme retribution against anyone if they refused.

Sure they've been forced to wear Black Lives Matter on their shirts.
Disgraceful.

Tony EH

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Grant briefly owned one slave which was gifted to him, He freed the slave years before the civil war.

Yes, I know this.

The point was the poster I replied to wondered what the reasoning was behind this group's pulling down of Grant's statue.

No doubt that group's reasoning will be "slave owner".

mick087

jackboy wrote: »

The premiership players during the week were strongly coerced into kneeling. That was a disgusting action. Don’t say they had a choice. There would have been extreme retribution against anyone if they refused.

In a few years time when players retire it will be interesting to see what the players have to say, what was said to them.

It does seem to me that the players in reality had little choice but Kneel, i found this quite disturbing.

Christy42

I am old enough to remember when kneeling was a sign of massive disrespect. Now it is one of subservience?

For all the stick Raab got over his idiotic comments they seemed to have served their purpose and given people a new angle over the wrong way to protest instead of actually discussing any of the issues.

jackboy

Rodin wrote: »

Sure they've been forced to wear Black Lives Matter on their shirts.
Disgraceful.

They have gone from being banned from wearing political symbols or slogans to being forced to do this.

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

Well obviously forcing people to kneel is wrong, but that wasn't your gripe.
You were complaining about people choosing to do something.
As far as I'm concerned it is their choice, no skin off my nose.

That was exactly my gripe that the carry on is getting pathetic, Your the one defending BLM to death, and refusing to look at whats happening objectively, rather just regurgitate the vague response "its in solidarity of black people whats wrong with that" literally people are pretending theres nothing wrong with the whole situation.

joe40

Cupatae wrote: »

That was exactly my gripe that the carry on is getting pathetic, Your the one defending BLM to death, and refusing to look at whats happening objectively, rather just regurgitate the vague response "its in solidarity of black people whats wrong with that" literally people are pretending theres nothing wrong with the whole situation.

It's a peaceful protest if people choose to do it, regardless of colour I have no problem with it.

I have already said people should not be forced in any way and I'm not comfortable with the premier league position.

But if people choose to show solidarity with a group by taking a Knee, then yeah I have no problem with that.

2u2me

Christy42 wrote: »

For all the stick Raab got over his idiotic comments they seemed to have served their purpose and given people a new angle over the wrong way to protest instead of actually discussing any of the issues.

Are you talking about his "I only kneel to two people; the queen and my wife"?

I think he hit the nail on the head there, you kneel to people you wish to serve.

I'd have no problem with kneeling if everyone was doing it, but there is a distinction between the kneeler and the kneelee.

joe40

2u2me wrote: »

Are you talking about his "I only kneel to two people; the queen and my wife"?

I think he hit the nail on the head there, you kneel to people you wish to serve.

I'd have no problem with kneeling if everyone was doing it, but there is a distinction between the kneeler and the kneelee.

Who did Colin Kapernick wish to serve when he took a knee instead of standing to the national anthem.

It was viewed as an act of defiance then. That is all it means.

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

It's a peaceful protest if people choose to do it, regardless of colour I have no problem with it.

I have already said people should not be forced in any way and I'm not comfortable with the premier league position.

But if people choose to show solidarity with a group by taking a Knee, then yeah I have no problem with that.

Is that what you saw in that vid? the peaceful protest is abit of a myth aswell, but its ok cause they separated it anyone violent has nothing to do with BLM conveniently enough.. they ve washed themselves of any responsibility.

Any way ill leave it at that ill no doubt be targeted for a ban for having a difference of opinion.

Cupatae

2u2me wrote: »

Are you talking about his "I only kneel to two people; the queen and my wife"?

I think he hit the nail on the head there, you kneel to people you wish to serve.

I'd have no problem with kneeling if everyone was doing it, but there is a distinction between the kneeler and the kneelee.

Its clear to see what black people are trying to establish when they have white folks kneeling... some people rather just blind themselves to the truth and say its all solidarity and happy days but realistically anyone with abit of sense knows the truth of what it really is..

Its a crazy crazy world we live in!

2u2me

joe40 wrote: »

Who did Colin Kapernick wish to serve when he took a knee instead of standing to the national anthem.

It was viewed as an act of defiance then. That is all it means.

The concept of kneeling has long existed in English culture; I don't think it's ever changed much. It has seemingly been usurped by the likes of Kaepernick, but why should we abide by the standards that they has changed?

It's like people that are telling us that words mean different things now, nobody gets to decide that.

Let's say I do the "hitler salute", but I say it's because I'm against facism. I get enough people to agree with me to be viewed as an act of defiance. Would you then do it?

In America standing to the flag is a mark of respect to the service personnel etc.., his show of respect of black people was also intertwined with a show of disrespect for others.

Had his protest completely separated these things I believe he would have been far more successful.

na1

joe40 wrote: »

Why would you suggest they burn money. It is good to have a debate with different opinions but suggesting that people should burn money is just stupid. It adds nothing.

why did they destroy a statue?
They hate images of the slave owners\trader but they still use USD notes.
And anyone of them would be more than happy to get $100 notes from you.

Happy4all

3 dead at a BLM protest in Reading.

This is disturbing.

Christy42

2u2me wrote: »

The concept of kneeling has long existed in English culture; I don't think it's ever changed much. It has seemingly been usurped by the likes of Kaepernick, but why should we abide by the standards that they has changed?

It's like people that are telling us that words mean different things now, nobody gets to decide that.

Let's say I do the "hitler salute", but I say it's because I'm against facism. I get enough people to agree with me to be viewed as an act of defiance. Would you then do it?

In America standing to the flag is a mark of respect to the service personnel etc.., his show of respect of black people was also intertwined with a show of disrespect for others.

Had his protest completely separated these things I believe he would have been far more successful.

He literally sought clarity from a green beret on how to respect the army.

But no. No matter how a black person protests it is the wrong way because we don't want to talk about those issues.

Please send your writings on the correct ways black people are allowed protest and hopefully they will follow them.

The entire kneeling thing comes from Kaep. So unless his was a show of subservience. The rest of them aren't.