Forced Return to Office Work

dancingqueen

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Sorry mate but your employer is well within his rights to demand that you return to work provided he can guarantee a safe working environment.

How you get to and from work is your business. I cannot understand how you are “forced” to use public transport. Driving, walking, cycling, e-scooters etc are all options that you could consider.

If you don’t have a driver’s license, that’s your problem and one you could have avoided by getting a license like most people. I assume that since you don’t have a car and have access to public, you live in an urban area so the other transport methods are probably available to you.

Anyone with a job right now is incredibly fortunate and should be doing all they can to support their employer through this difficult time.

1. I am not your mate
2. I am entitled to be treated PROPERLY by my employer
3. I have other concerns, not JUST public transport
4. It is none of your business whether or not I drive and why I do or do not drive. Perhaps I have sight or health issues that don't allow me to?

Get a grip and don't be an ass

Telly

Why cant you go in early and leave early or go in late and leave late?

dancingqueen

Telly wrote: »

Why cant you go in early and leave early or go in late and leave late?

Employer will not permit this.

Seth Brundle

dancingqueen wrote: »

Get a grip and don't be an ass

When people in work try and help you, do you react like this?

ChikiChiki

dancingqueen wrote: »

I have already asked to see the risk assessment, over a week ago. I was told we would be provided with a document but nothing has been circulated yet. I am unsure if a risk assessment includes getting to work as employers only have a duty to ensure that we have "a safe place to work".

We have not had induction training, we were not consulted on measures being applied. I have raised all of these concerns but I am getting nothing back.

Getting to work via public transport presents the highest risk in my opinion.

Any risk assessment without it included is not worth the paper it is written on and you would have to question an adequate Covid 19 risk mitigation strategy has been put in place.

storker

dancingqueen wrote: »

Employer will not permit this.

This employer sounds like a real jerk. Is he prepared to offer any flexibility in any form?

By the way, has he outlined the steps he has taken to provide a safe working environment?

Sono Topolino

dancingqueen wrote: »

1. I am not your mate
2. I am entitled to be treated PROPERLY by my employer
3. I have other concerns, not JUST public transport
4. It is none of your business whether or not I drive and why I do or do not drive. Perhaps I have sight or health issues that don't allow me to?

Get a grip and don't be an ass

1. Ok
2. Your employer’s obligations to you begin when you start working in the morning and end when you leave in the evening Whatever happens before or after you leave the workplace isn’t a concern of your employer.
3. You haven’t explained why you don’t want to drive/cycle/walk. If you have a disability, then you have priority access to public transport. Wear a mask and gloves and you should be fine.

I’m not being an ass. I just don’t believe that you’re engaging with us in good faith.

dancingqueen

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Getting to work via public transport presents the highest risk in my opinion.

Any risk assessment without it included is not worth the paper it is written on and you would have to question an adequate Covid 19 risk mitigation strategy has been put in place.

That is why I have asked to see it, I highly doubt I will either. I don't think it was done and if it was, it wasn't completed by a qualifed H&S Professional.

dancingqueen

Sono Topolino wrote: »

1. Ok
2. Your employer’s obligations to you begin when you start working in the morning and end when you leave in the evening Whatever happens before or after you leave the workplace isn’t a concern of your employer.
3. You haven’t explained why you don’t want to drive/cycle/walk. If you have a disability, then you have priority access to public transport. Wear a mask and gloves and you should be fine.

I’m not being an ass. I just don’t believe that you’re engaging with us in good faith.

Good faith?
I asked if there was advice on how to deal with an employer is is not playing by the rules. I have been interrogated on my circumstances and told it is my own fault because I don't drive.

All I want is for my employer to play by the book. That isn't happening.

Seve OB

dancingqueen wrote: »

1. I am not your mate
2. I am entitled to be treated PROPERLY by my employer
3. I have other concerns, not JUST public transport
4. It is none of your business whether or not I drive and why I do or do not drive. Perhaps I have sight or health issues that don't allow me to?

Get a grip and don't be an ass

bit of an attitude here. the post was just laying down the facts and you just seem hell bent on not accepting them.

yes it is unfortunate for you that your employer wants you back in the office but they aren't "forcing you" to use public transport.

as long as they have laid down the correct back to work protocols (which you haven't disputed) then you need to suck it up or look for another job.

dancingqueen

storker wrote: »

This employer sounds like a real jerk. Is he prepared to offer any flexibility in any form?

By the way, has he outlined the steps he has taken to provide a safe working environment?

No, not in full. Nor were employees consulted beforehand (as is the requirement).

All information has been drip fed and not clear. Regardless of the explicit nature of "remote working MUST continue" in the roadmap, these decisions were made for this date beforehand and not changed in line with Phase 2.

Sono Topolino

Seth Brundle wrote: »

When people in work try and help you, do you react like this?

My money is on “yes” and he is giving his employer grief about an unprecedented disruption to normal operations that literally nobody foresaw even in February.

dancingqueen

Seve OB wrote: »

bit of an attitude here. the post was just laying down the facts and you just seem hell bent on not accepting them.

yes it is unfortunate for you that your employer wants you back in the office but they aren't "forcing you" to use public transport.

as long as they have laid down the correct back to work protocols (which you haven't disputed) then you need to suck it up or look for another job.

Yes I have disputed the protocols, as I have mentioned a few times in the thread already.

dancingqueen

Sono Topolino wrote: »

My money is on “yes” and he is giving his employer grief about an unprecedented disruption to normal operations that literally nobody foresaw even in February.

I am a she, firstly, and you don't know me. You are continuing to play the bully- boy too which shows far more about your character than it does about mine.

Cuddlesworth

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/1/enacted/en/print#sec10



(c) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (b), restrictions to be imposed upon persons or classes of persons resident in, working in or visiting locations referred to in paragraph (b) including (but not limited to)—

(i) requiring persons to remain in their homes, or

(ii) without prejudice to any other provisions of this Act or regulations made thereunder requiring persons to remain in such other places, as may be specified by the Minister;

(i) any other measures that the Minister considers necessary in order to prevent, limit, minimise or slow the spread of Covid-19;

I'm not a solicitor but it seems that if the Ministers current guidance is work from home if you can, then the company is breaking the law telling people to go into work without good reason.

Best to get a professional opinion on it. If they did get vindictive and let you go, it could possibly leave them open to a lawsuit.

Might be worth contacting the WRC as well, get a official statement.

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what-we-do/who-we-are/

Keep in mind, all of this will cause bad blood in your office if you are the only person taking this path.

dancingqueen

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/1/enacted/en/print#sec10



(c) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (b), restrictions to be imposed upon persons or classes of persons resident in, working in or visiting locations referred to in paragraph (b) including (but not limited to)—

(i) requiring persons to remain in their homes, or

(ii) without prejudice to any other provisions of this Act or regulations made thereunder requiring persons to remain in such other places, as may be specified by the Minister;

(i) any other measures that the Minister considers necessary in order to prevent, limit, minimise or slow the spread of Covid-19;

I'm not a solicitor but it seems that if the Ministers current guidance is work from home if you can, then the company is breaking the law telling people to go into work without good reason.

Best to get a professional opinion on it. If they did get vindictive and let you go, it could possibly leave them open to a lawsuit.

Might be worth contacting the WRC as well, get a official statement.

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what-we-do/who-we-are/

Keep in mind, all of this will cause bad blood in your office if you are the only person taking this path.

Thank you for posting this, appreciate it.

Gallee

dancingqueen wrote: »

I have been working remotely successfully since mid March

Not too productive today!! Lots of time spent on Boards.

1hnr79jr65

Op, is there anyone you could possibly car pool with at your work place ?
How far do you live from work ?
Do you live in an Urban or Rural area ?
What is your work area like, a cramped office, factory, other ?
Do you have a union rep you can speak to ?

I take it there is no dedicated H&S person onsite from your last post, however it may be a first aid rep assigned that responsibility to risk assess ? If so, their assessment could be valid if it follows guidelines, assuming you can get a copy. Do you have a health concern that they should be accommodating you ?

Perhaps if you can answer these questions, folks can better offer guidance on how to manage this issue for you.

dancingqueen

Gallee wrote: »

Not too productive today!! Lots of time spent on Boards.

I'm on annual leave today

thanks for the wonderful comment though - you're hilarious

dancingqueen

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Op, is there anyone you could possibly car pool with at your work place ?
How far do you live from work ?
Do you live in an Urban or Rural area ?
What is your work area like, a cramped office, factory, other ?
Do you have a union rep you can speak to ?

I take it there is no dedicated H&S person onsite from your last post, however it may be a first aid rep assigned that responsibility to risk assess ? If so, their assessment could be valid if it follows guidelines, assuming you can get a copy. Do you have a health concern that they should be accommodating you ?

Perhaps if you can answer these questions, folks can better offer guidance on how to manage this issue for you.

Far enough that cycling/walking is too far
I can't car pool - employer has actually asked that we do not car pool
Urban
Cramped office
No union

H&S person is someone who works in the office. It is not their prime role though, they just do bits on the side.
Have asked twice for risk assessment (am quite knowledgeable on H&S as have family member qualified in this line of work)
Yes, I have a health concern

ChikiChiki

Slight passive aggressive tone to the posts OP. Hope you don't email like that :-)

I used to email with one word replies, almost confrontational until someone actually said one day, "we all thought you were an ass from your emails but you are actually really sound". I had no idea up to that point.

B.A._Baracus

Hey op,
You need to step back and look at the bigger picture. Thousands are out of work right now and thousands would gladly slip into your role and pay.

So you don't wanna use public transport. I am gonna be in your boat too once my job gives the ok to come back. You don't drive. I don't drive. You know what word to use here? ... It's called "tough"

Sono Topolino

dancingqueen wrote: »

Far enough that cycling/walking is too far
I can't car pool - employer has actually asked that we do not car pool
Urban
Cramped office
No union

H&S person is someone who works in the office. It is not their prime role though, they just do bits on the side.
Have asked twice for risk assessment (am quite knowledgeable on H&S as have family member qualified in this line of work)
Yes, I have a health concern

Get an electric bike through BTW scheme. Solved.

1hnr79jr65

Op, how i would play this out then is get a note from your gp outlining your health issues (even if work is already aware) to make it formal in the next email you send.

Open a new mail with the title "Formal Grievance - H&S Report and Return to Office", In this email outline your in office concerns and number point all the requirements that the government have outlined that businesses are required to protect staff.

Identify that you have a health issue for travel, noting again how travel restrictions affect you getting to the office, & concerns for actually being in the office AND refer back to the government guidelines with the number above as a reference including the link to the government/HSA website. Also note how you have a cert from your gp showing the need for social distancing for you and how travel to and from work, along with attending the office may impact your health. Tell them you have attached the cert and attach to the email.

Remind them you have requested multiple times for a copy of the H&S assessment to be sent prior to return to work and copy those mails into the bottom of this email. Ask them to clarify if government guidelines have been followed. Copy link for gov/hsa guidelines for return to office.

Next detail is discussing work from home, note how long you have worked from home, list out normal duties, then list other duties you have taken on which is beyond your responsibility requirement. Note to the number point above which government says work from home where possible, how this helps with your health and if you worked X weeks, for them to provide a justifiable reason why you are required back on site. On top of this i would discuss your contracted responsibilities and then the extra work you have taken on, however return to office would require a return to normal duties. You could use this part as a leverage to stay home as they cant force you to take extra work outside of your contracted responsibilities.

Last part is to request a formal meeting (through skype/zoom) with HR to discuss your grievance. Request a receipt of the mail along with a copy of company grievance policy.

Send the mail to HR only, if you don't have HR send to your reporting manager and their manager. BCC your personal email.

This is a formal structure you can use if you need to take this further, maybe the structure will make them think twice.

water-man

I feel sorry for people who have a health condition and who work for an ass as a company.

I also feel sorry for employers who have to be hard line as there are people out there who when giving an inch take a mile.

DuffleBag

Dare I ask if any of your colleagues, presuming of course you aren't as passive aggressive to them, are experiencing similar issues?

I think overall it's just something you're going to have to suck up and get over, like a lot of people will be doing. There's plenty PPE gear you could use if you were really worried about it on a bus. Best to start investing in them.

Can you tell us how long you have to travel distance wise so we can maybe give advice?

gibgodsman

Honestly to me it just sounds like you loved working from home that much you're annoyed at having to actually return to normality. Everything you do has a risk, your employer needs to ensure there will be a business at the end of this pandemic and if that means you go back to work then so be it. The 8th of June phase is basically the reopening of Ireland, I have been in lockdown and working from home myself since March as I contracted Covid from my partner and our isolation followed into the lockdown.

Today is the day you go back to work, working from home is all well and good, but if your employer, who is paying your wages, and has ensured Covid measures are adhered to in his offices, tells you he wants you to work from the office, then you work from the office. There is nothing anyone can do, ring citizen information if you wish, they will suggest he cannot fire you, but he won't pay you either if you decide not to return due to Covid fears

AmandaAnn

If you have a health condition, you could ask HR to refer you to occupational health to have an assessment regarding the risks of you returning to the office in the current environment.

s1ippy

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Hey op,
You need to step back and look at the bigger picture. Thousands are out of work right now and thousands would gladly slip into your role and pay.

So you don't wanna use public transport. I am gonna be in your boat too once my job gives the ok to come back. You don't drive. I don't drive. You know what word to use here? ... It's called "tough"

Just be grateful, roll over and take whatever they demand of you? Yeah, employers love that characteristic. It can be quite a worrying sign if your self-worth is that low though.

You're dead right to be opposing this OP. As other posters have pointed out, you are well within your right to call these demands out, especially as "WFH where possible" is still in place.

Are you a member of a union? I strongly recommend you join a relevant one and consult them for advice on the specifics of this situation rather than leave yourself at the mercy of the baying boards hoardes, where you'll get more abuse for not worshipping your masters than salient information.

Dodge

gibgodsman wrote: »

Today is the day you go back to work, working from home is all well and good, but if your employer, who is paying your wages, and has ensured Covid measures are adhered to in his offices, tells you he wants you to work from the office, then you work from the office.

While this is clearly true, if the employer can’t show what measures they’ve taken, then I think it’s fair for staff to query that. Particularly if productivity hasn’t been effected for that staff member

If the employer shows how safe the workplace is, then there should be no problems at all