Forced Return to Office Work

stevek93

dancingqueen wrote: »

OP here , I am being asked to return to the office now.

Are you in the office today?

road_high

stevek93 wrote: »

I work in IT and there is one lad still in the office, he has a VERY long list to gather hardware returns. Hardware returns usually mean you are collecting a laptop of a user that has left the company...

You mean a load of people got the sack?

stevek93

road_high wrote: »

You mean a load of people got the sack?

It seems that way yes.

dancingqueen

stevek93 wrote: »

OP how is your work environment? Do you have contact with many people during the day are you able to social distance? This needs to be brought to attention if companies are unnecessarily sending people back the office for no reason.

Our office layout allows us to be distanced when at our desks but not when using copiers, bathrooms (for which use is now restricted), canteen (also now restricted) - we cannot operate a one way system either. I would find it hard to social distance 100% of the time in the office. I believe that is a condition for returning to work now in this phase.

dancingqueen

bucketybuck wrote: »

We are one of them. Only some of our functions can be done remotely and we allowed those staff to start working from home months ago.

To say their performance has been unsatisfactory would be an huge understatement.

If the work was being done we could talk, but it isn't and so as far as I am concerned they can get their ass back into the office, and how they get there is their concern.

I don't know the OP but I can read her posts and the tone shown in this thread and draw a few conclusions about why her employer may be intractable on this issue.

Correct, you don't know me. I am genuinely concerned for my safety and for the safety of vulnerable members of my household. Catching Covid is not just an impact for me, but for my family. My employer does not seem to have correctly followed Return to Work Protocol, but of course only a trouble maker would stand up for themselves, their colleagues and their families.

Employers like you are probably why your staff are unproductive at home. They are not trusted, and they know it.

ixoy

dancingqueen wrote: »

Our office layout allows us to be distanced when at our desks but not when using copiers, bathrooms (for which use is now restricted), canteen (also now restricted) - we cannot operate a one way system either. I would find it hard to social distance 100% of the time in the office. I believe that is a condition for returning to work now in this phase.

I've heard people talking about the logistics of this alright. It's not just a matter of desks but how people get to and from their desks - if it's not on the ground floor, how many lifts are there and how many people per lift? How many people in a stairwell? If there's 100s of people who need to be spaced that presents enormous challenges.

Bathrooms, as you point out, can be bad at the best of times - how are yours planning to work?

It's challenges like that, that I can see many offices adopting a rota system into the office until there's some greater change against tackling the virus itself and why I understand poster's concerns.

stevek93

dancingqueen wrote: »

Our office layout allows us to be distanced when at our desks but not when using copiers, bathrooms (for which use is now restricted), canteen (also now restricted) - we cannot operate a one way system either. I would find it hard to social distance 100% of the time in the office. I believe that is a condition for returning to work now in this phase.

How is your other work colleagues finding it?

ussrsoviet

have to admit the op attitude stinks, which probably leads to why the employer isnt being very facilitating and compromising, the way you have reacted to help and advice with such a horrible tone says alot about you, suck it up pc Karen and be grateful you have a job, if the only mode of transport you have is the bus then its your own fault not your employers , you say your not comfortable standing in the queue for the bus? so if you were starving and needed food for your family you wouldnt stand in a queue for food for your family?
you really sound like you just got to used to sitting at home and the 'new normal'
Life has to get back to normal eventually Karen, sorry to inform you, go back to work, or look for a new job

dancingqueen

ussrsoviet wrote: »

have to admit the op attitude stinks, which probably leads to why the employer isnt being very facilitating and compromising, the way you have reacted to help and advice with such a horrible tone says alot about you, suck it up pc Karen and be grateful you have a job, if the only mode of transport you have is the bus then its your own fault not your employers , you say your not comfortable standing in the queue for the bus? so if you were starving and needed food for your family you wouldnt stand in a queue for food for your family?
you really sound like you just got to used to sitting at home and the 'new normal'
Life has to get back to normal eventually Karen, sorry to inform you, go back to work, or look for a new job

Did you join boards just to have a go at people? You must have very little to do.

dancingqueen

stevek93 wrote: »

How is your other work colleagues finding it?

We are not back yet, but other colleagues who also depend on public transport (there are a lot of us) are all as concerned to be honest.

_Kaiser_

dancingqueen wrote: »

We are not back yet, but other colleagues who also depend on public transport (there are a lot of us) are all as concerned to be honest.

I was in the office myself yesterday. Now granted there were only a handful of people in, but I think it very much depends on someone's attitude to this whole thing.

There are some (like yourself) who are genuinely frightened by it, or who are in the at risk category and that's fair enough. Then there are others like myself who are more pragmatic or have no underlying conditions or reason to suspect a particularly adverse reaction if I did get it (based on what we know about the impact and who is most vulnerable).

But, you need to be conscious of the reality here. Your employer is perfectly entitled to ask you to return to work and with the current economic and employment situation, you should think carefully about the way you're responding (if your tone here is any indication), and what refusing might lead to - maybe not immediately, but if things get worse for your company.

My advice continues to be to try and have a calm and reasonable call with your line manager or someone else who is responsible for you (be it a department head, or HR etc). Explain your situation and concerns again, point to the fact that you're just as productive, and ask if there's a compromise position.

But, if you still aren't happy then I think you'll either have to suck it up and get on with it, or start looking for another job - but it's an employer's market again and your apparent inflexibility and attitude (in my view based on your posts) would be a concern, and I say that as a senior manager myself who's also had to make compromises I wasn't especially happy about in this situation.

stevek93

dancingqueen wrote: »

We are not back yet, but other colleagues who also depend on public transport (there are a lot of us) are all as concerned to be honest.

I suppose this thread seems to be only giving ones personal view on the matter look at the link below this is a copy and paste from the HSE website. I would make contact and see what advise is given.

The Health and Safety Authority - Workplace Contact Unit
Phone: 1890 289 389
Email: wcu@hsa.ie

Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation Business Support
Information on government supports for businesses and enterprises affected by coronavirus.
Phone: 01 631 2002
Email: infobusinesssupport@dbei.gov.ie
dbei.gov.ie/en/

Workplace Relations Commission (WRC)
Phone: 059 9178 990
workplacerelations.ie

National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI)
Phone: 01 807 3800
Email: COVID-19-support@nsai.ie
nsai.ie

HSELive
Phone: 1850 241850
Web chat: hse.ie/eng/hselive/

Niallof9

ussrsoviet wrote: »

have to admit the op attitude stinks, which probably leads to why the employer isnt being very facilitating and compromising, the way you have reacted to help and advice with such a horrible tone says alot about you, suck it up pc Karen and be grateful you have a job, if the only mode of transport you have is the bus then its your own fault not your employers , you say your not comfortable standing in the queue for the bus? so if you were starving and needed food for your family you wouldnt stand in a queue for food for your family?
you really sound like you just got to used to sitting at home and the 'new normal'
Life has to get back to normal eventually Karen, sorry to inform you, go back to work, or look for a new job

give it a rest, many people wfh are doing the same and if not more. have it in my place, sending us things every minute thinking we're doing **** all, when in fact we are doing more. Hopefully this pandemic changes attitudes like yours and others who say the employee should be on hands and knees thanking the employer for their job.you talk of Karen's, you must be either in management or a Gareth Keenan

employers have a duty of care in these strange times. The idea that you should hit the road because you have difficulties in transport, means your employer is not worth working for. I hope any office taking the piss is brought to book. Like in our place we don't get paid sick leave despite being connected to one of the richest companies in the World. So people march in sick, infecting everybody. Hopefully thats an end to ****e like this. Similarly to the idea that a long commute, transport issues isn't a problem for the employer. Obviously it depends on company but take my multinational, happily use all the services for low corporation tax, and yet a few buses for their company wouldn't go amiss. but do they do that? no of course not.

some of you lads are in for a big shock i reckon. the days of employers holding employees over a barrel is coming to an end. the idea of the likes of amazon mistreating warehouse employees while funding social movements is part of the big joke. once that mindset shifts, any employer using the rod will start getting hit.

ussrsoviet

Niallof9 wrote: »

give it a rest, many people wfh are doing the same and if not more. have it my place, sending us things every minute thinking we're doing **** all, when in fact we are doing more. Hopefully this pandemic changes attitudes like yours and others who say the employee should be on hands and knees thanking the employer for their job.

i said nothing about people working from home? i was simply saying the op should admit thats the reason why she doesnt want to go back to work, instead of blaming being afraid of a bus queue fair play to you for being good at home though, cant say i would be

dancingqueen

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I was in the office myself yesterday. Now granted there were only a handful of people in, but I think it very much depends on someone's attitude to this whole thing.

There are some (like yourself) who are genuinely frightened by it, or who are in the at risk category and that's fair enough. Then there are others like myself who are more pragmatic or have no underlying conditions or reason to suspect a particularly adverse reaction if I did get it (based on what we know about the impact and who is most vulnerable).

But, you need to be conscious of the reality here. Your employer is perfectly entitled to ask you to return to work and with the current economic and employment situation, you should think carefully about the way you're responding (if your tone here is any indication), and what refusing might lead to - maybe not immediately, but if things get worse for your company.

My advice continues to be to try and have a calm and reasonable call with your line manager or someone else who is responsible for you (be it a department head, or HR etc). Explain your situation and concerns again, point to the fact that you're just as productive, and ask if there's a compromise position.

But, if you still aren't happy then I think you'll either have to suck it up and get on with it, or start looking for another job - but it's an employer's market again and your apparent inflexibility and attitude (in my view based on your posts) would be a concern, and I say that as a senior manager myself who's also had to make compromises I wasn't especially happy about in this situation.

I can reflect my feelings here in the way I would not speak to my employer. I am not an unreasonable person but when I have repeatedly asked to have concerns addressed that are legitimate to me and it hasn't been responded to, or asked to see the risk assessment/safety statement and it hasn't been provided, what do I do? I have to suck it up and let my employer walk all over me?

dancingqueen

ussrsoviet wrote: »

i said nothing about people working from home? i was simply saying the op should admit thats the reason why she doesnt want to go back to work, instead of blaming being afraid of a bus queue fair play to you for being good at home though, cant say i would be

I did not blame a bus queue. There are a lot of posts where I mention that I have asked for specific concerns to be responded to, and for information to be provided to me (things I am entitled to).

davo2001

dancingqueen wrote: »

I can reflect my feelings here in the way I would not speak to my employer. I am not an unreasonable person but when I have repeatedly asked to have concerns addressed that are legitimate to me and it hasn't been responded to, or asked to see the risk assessment/safety statement and it hasn't been provided, what do I do? I have to suck it up and let my employer walk all over me?

You can always quit and find yourself another job.

Dodge

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Your employer is perfectly entitled to ask you to return to work

But the OP was working.

It’s an argument for another day (that several are having here anyway) but the idea that working from home isn’t really working is dying in most professional settings.

I’ve already commented on the OP’s situation but just wanted to highlight this comment as some (many?) believe you can only work in official workplaces. Others (an increasing amount) only care about the output, not the location

Niallof9

ussrsoviet wrote: »

i said nothing about people working from home? i was simply saying the op should admit thats the reason why she doesnt want to go back to work, instead of blaming being afraid of a bus queue fair play to you for being good at home though, cant say i would be

ok fair enough i just mean not everyone is sitting at home messing about. sorry if the op said he wasn't wfh i withdraw my point. i read that he was. if not fair enough his employer has a right. We have one guy in our place who wasn't onboarded before the crisis and is getting paid sitting at home doing nothing. now when he goes back yes they should be hard on him.

i should have put in the caveat *once employees aren't taking the piss either.

ussrsoviet

Niallof9 wrote: »

give it a rest, many people wfh are doing the same and if not more. have it in my place, sending us things every minute thinking we're doing **** all, when in fact we are doing more. Hopefully this pandemic changes attitudes like yours and others who say the employee should be on hands and knees thanking the employer for their job.you talk of Karen's, you must be either in management or a Gareth Keenan

employers have a duty of care in these strange times. The idea that you should hit the road because you have difficulties in transport, means your employer is not worth working for. I hope any office taking the piss is brought to book. Like in our place we don't get paid sick leave despite being connected to one of the richest companies in the World. So people march in sick, infecting everybody. Hopefully thats an end to ****e like this. Similarly to the idea that a long commute, transport issues isn't a problem for the employer. Obviously it depends on company but take my multinational, happily use all the services for low corporation tax, and yet a few buses for their company wouldn't go amiss. but do they do that? no of course not.

some of you lads are in for a big shock i reckon. the days of employers holding employees over a barrel is coming to an end. the idea of the likes of amazon mistreating warehouse employees while funding social movements is part of the big joke. once that mindset shifts, any employer using the rod will start getting hit.

your edit is actually quite laughable niall hahah are you going starting your own union ? you little warrior haha go back to work and get out of bed

antodeco

My job has begun letting people return to work. But this is done a voluntary basis.

If people don't want to return they are not being asked to return. Only this who feel comfortable to return, and have no risks, are returning.

The reality is, by the end of this month, there will be a need for more people to return. Eventually we will need vast majority back. However there are people who are refusing to come back and say not to be back until at least 2021. An an employer, it's figuring out those who are scared to return versus those who don't want to return. This is where it will be difficult in the coming weeks.

Niallof9

ussrsoviet wrote: »

your edit is actually quite laughable niall hahah are you going starting your own union ? you little warrior haha go back to work and get out of bed

fair enough. interesting username. obviously its a tongue in cheek name i presume...

this is the start of the shift. flexibility, understanding, wfh, maybe a shorter week. lket those who want to bust their balls advance and get ahead. those who work hard but have less opportunity should be given some understanding to live their lives as well. i realise work is not a charity. but the stuff around virtue signalling from companies would sicken me. whats the point funding social movements when your work practices or stinginess is part of the problem of society?

also i realise John Joe with his 30-40 employees is a different ballgame to a huge corporation/multi-national.

Companies who need workers back should have a plan of action and proper protocol. Multinationals who need people back should assess everything. Let some who want to or prefer it go back. But then you are heading in to a situation where the environment of the office could be complete ****. So that also needs to be understood. The idea that life could be just work with no release valve is kind of depressing. WFH is that equivalent of a friday night pint in a way. Less stress and manic rushing. There has to be understanding by some businesses. Obviously John Joe's office is under more pressure and employees need to be understanding as well.

paw patrol

davo2001 wrote: »

You can always quit and find yourself another job.

this!
if the employer can maintain the rules set by the state then if they say to be there , you need to be there. They are paying you but it's not slavery you can resign if you don't like the T&Cs of the job

What I suspect has happened is the OP has gotten a taste of work from home and doesn't want to give it up. I know how you feel OP ! But that's not for you to choose.

get a new job if you aren't happy in the current one. Same applies as in every case where one isn't happy with pay and conditions.

In case you are sick and worried that bad luck (about 700 cases out of 4.5million) will strike you. Go to a doctor.

Niallof9

i wonder where we would be today if the people in ****ty jobs back in the day said ah sure if you don't like it you can always quit. its completely absolving employers of any wrong doing. and its been found out.

take one of the big multinationals in Dublin. The majority of their world wide workforce is actually contractors. You could say its just t and c's deal with it. Or you could say a company getting such generous tax breaks and using up resources of the city should be more reasonable. it took a hard stance by employees to get them to change their mind. And its still pretty crap. "Same applies as in every case where one isn't happy with pay and conditions" - no it doesn't.

Heart Break Kid

dancingqueen wrote: »

1. I am not your mate

Always hated when people responded like this. Its extremely hostile where there is no need to be to what is generally a term of endearment.

I think you do need to step up and work more constructively with your employer to find a solution. Currently you seem to be approaching this as a you vs your employer and if you keep throwing up obstacles, I see little reason why the employer would want to work with you.

Its down to you and not your employer to figure out how your going to get to work. You should also really consider cycling. Roads are still quite enough and if you don't have a bike you could consider investing in a cheap one that may do the job.

ussrsoviet

Niallof9 wrote: »

fair enough. interesting username. obviously its a tongue in cheek name i presume...

this is the start of the shift. flexibility, understanding, wfh, maybe a shorter week. lket those who want to bust their balls advance and get ahead. those who work hard but have less opportunity should be given some understanding to live their lives as well. i realise work is not a charity. but the stuff around virtue signalling from companies would sicken me. whats the point funding social movements when your work practices or stinginess is part of the problem of society?

also i realise John Joe with his 30-40 employees is a different ballgame to a huge corporation/multi-national.

Companies who need workers back should have a plan of action and proper protocol. Multinationals who need people back should assess everything. Let some who want to or prefer it go back. But then you are heading in to a situation where the environment of the office could be complete ****. So that also needs to be understood. The idea that life could be just work with no release valve is kind of depressing. WFH is that equivalent of a friday night pint in a way. Less stress and manic rushing. There has to be understanding by some businesses. Obviously John Joe's office is under more pressure and employees need to be understanding as well.

i think your misconstruing my views so let me just clarify,
i have serious respect for people that can work from home, as i cant, i need the gym to exercise, if i had a gym in my back room, id use it for the first week and not use it again, so i have alot of respect for people that can work from home, my issue is , with people using this pandemic for benefit, i know alot of people are wfh and not doing 50% of workload they would get through at work, and some of the statements the op poster said really irked me when looking for advise,
she comes across like the type that would jump a mile when she meets someone in the shopping aisle when walking down it, when realistically its perfectly safe,
as is standing in a queue or on a bus while you are being socially aware, and sanitizing
so dont get me wrong, im all for a shorter week and employers respecting their employees but it also has to go both ways

ka2

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Its down to you and not your employer to figure out how your going to get to work. You should also really consider cycling. Roads are still quite enough and if you don't have a bike you could consider investing in a cheap one that may do the job.

What if the OP lives in, let's say, Newbridge and works in Dublin? You can't cycle that. I understand her concerns, on one hand we're being told to continue working from home where possible but that advice is being ignored by some.

Niallof9

ussrsoviet wrote: »

i think your misconstruing my views so let me just clarify,
i have serious respect for people that can work from home, as i cant, i need the gym to exercise, if i had a gym in my back room, id use it for the first week and not use it again, so i have alot of respect for people that can work from home, my issue is , with people using this pandemic for benefit, i know alot of people are wfh and not doing 50% of workload they would get through at work, and some of the statements the op poster said really irked me when looking for advise,
she comes across like the type that would jump a mile when she meets someone in the shopping aisle when walking down it, when realistically its perfectly safe,
as is standing in a queue or on a bus while you are being socially aware, and sanitizing
so dont get me wrong, im all for a shorter week and employers respecting their employees but it also has to go both ways

fair enough. yeah look im pro easing up. but i do think some employers have to be careful. if wfh can continue then it should. But long term wfh will also damage the economy. take eastpoint the whole business park is nearly wfh. what happens to the spar there, the cafe, the pub. all jobs etc. so i get where you are coming from and it will be harder to take the op's position when lockdown is nearly finished. already the indo is floating news that there won't be lockdown part 2 in the event of a second wave. i just take issue with some employers demanding things. respect for each other would be a start. i mean take Amazon. they fired workers who walked out at the start of crisis and yet on social media they are virtue signalling. i suppose my point of view is more aimed at large employers. but yeah if an employer saids you need to go back, what choice do you have?

dancingqueen

paw patrol wrote: »

What I suspect has happened is the OP has gotten a taste of work from home and doesn't want to give it up. I know how you feel OP ! But that's not for you to choose.

/QUOTE]

nope, you should probably read the thread.

robbiezero

Niallof9 wrote: »

some of you lads are in for a big shock i reckon. the days of employers holding employees over a barrel is coming to an end. the idea of the likes of amazon mistreating warehouse employees while funding social movements is part of the big joke. once that mindset shifts, any employer using the rod will start getting hit.

One thing that this pandemic may have shown employers is that some jobs can be entirely fulfilled by a remote working employee.
For the likes of the IT sector, It has certainly been an employees market in the last few years. The power might tilt back towards employers in the coming years, but its hard to know how it will play out.