BLM Manifesto Discussion

Nozebleed

How realistic are BLM being here with their manifesto?

http://archive.is/dGyqs


We demand an end to the war against Black people. Since this country’s inception there have been named and unnamed wars on our communities. We demand an end to the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people. This includes:

1 An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.

2 An end to capital punishment.

3 An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.

4 An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.

5 An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.

6 An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.

7 An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).

8 The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.

9 An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.

10 Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.

CtevenSrowder

Nozebleed wrote: »

How realistic are BLM being here with their manifesto?

http://archive.is/dGyqs


We demand an end to the war against Black people. Since this country’s inception there have been named and unnamed wars on our communities. We demand an end to the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people. This includes:

1 An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.

I disagree that black youths are dehumanised in American society. Yes to removing police from schools.

Nozebleed wrote: »

2 An end to capital punishment.

Agree, but it is a state issue is it not?

Nozebleed wrote: »

3 An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.

Agree though it should be up to the judge whether bail is offered or not. Disagree re mandatory fines.

Nozebleed wrote: »

4 An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.

Disagree re housing, loans, employment and depends on what they mean by other services. I agree re licenses (with the exception of a gun license), voting and education

Nozebleed wrote: »

5 An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.

Strongly disagree with all of this.

Nozebleed wrote: »

6 An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.

This is just your usual hocus-pocus progressive rubbish.

Nozebleed wrote: »

7 An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).

Disagree with all of this.

Nozebleed wrote: »

8 The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.

Agree with this bar the college campus element.

Nozebleed wrote: »

9 An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.

Agree with all of this.

Nozebleed wrote: »

10 Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.

And I repeat:

your usual hocus-pocus progressive rubbish

Rodin

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I disagree that black youths are dehumanised in American society. Yes to removing police from schools.

Agree, but it is a state issue is it not?


Agree though it should be up to the judge whether bail is offered or not.


Disagree re housing, loans, employment and depends on what they mean by other services. I agree re licenses (with the exception of a gun license), voting and education


Strongly disagree with all of this.


This is just your usual hocus-pocus progressive rubbish.



Disagree with all of this.


Agree with this bar the college campus element.


Agree with all of this.



And I repeat:

That systemic racism exists hasn't been proven.
A black man has more to fear from another black man than a white police officer.

titan18

Seems a bit risky removing police/security from schools with the amount of school shootings they get. First big school shooting after its done, there'll be war and they'll just be brought back in

CtevenSrowder

Rodin wrote: »

That systemic racism exists hasn't been proven.
A black man has more to fear from another black man than a white police officer.

No systematic racism over there doesn't exist. I still thing some of those reforms are worthwhile, particularly in respect of demilitarising the police.

I'd also be advocating for an end to government lobbying, the 2 party system (i.e. it is mandated that at least 3 parties get to take part in presidential debates, but no more than 5 (too crowded)). They need to find a way to make college education more affordable aswell, that doesn't discriminate based on race.

Cal4567

'This is just your usual hocus-pocus progressive rubbish'

3 decades of identity politics dismantled in a sentence.

biko

According to Wikipedia they want

Reparations for the:
"wealth extracted from" the black communities "through environmental racism, slavery, food apartheid, housing discrimination and racialized capitalism in the form of corporate and government reparations";

Most of these don't make sense. Environmental racism? Food apartheid?
What makes more sense is slavery, but no black person in US today was ever a slave, nor their father and no white person a slave owner, nor their father.

But - Saudi Arabia and Yemen didn't abolish slavery until 1962 because of pressure from Britain.
If you know a person from there it's possible you know an actual slave owner's son/daughter.

Mr. Karate

They even wanted 5 States to themselves at one point iirc. And then to secede from the US.

Rodney Bathgate

They have millions of white ‘useful idiots’ onside to push this ludicrous manifesto. This will end well.

paw patrol

This is one of their aims from their website

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

The family is the cornerstone of western society.
These are dangerous people. Of course the useful idiots don't see that cos they have the feel good factor of combatting racism (which is a good thing) not realise who they are attaching themselves too thus giving BLM an even louder voice.

This is marxism pure and simple. They don't want equality they want to destroy our society and herald in whatever sh1thole they envisage in their minds

Rodney Bathgate

paw patrol wrote: »

This is one of their aims from their website




The family is the cornerstone of western society.
These are dangerous people. Of course the useful idiots don't see that cos they have the feel good factor of combatting racism (which is a good thing) not realise who they are attaching themselves too thus giving BLM an even louder voice.

This is marxism pure and simple. They don't want equality they want to destroy our society.

And they have people lapping this up.

SporadicMan

I'm glad that people are waking up to them being a radical, racist and destructive organisation.

If only the useful idiots could see the same. Won't happen until Instagram and celebrities tell them so.

It's so depressing how much developed societies can be undermined by intelligent social media brainwashing.

the purple tin

Why do they want body cameras removed from police? Surely it's better to have everything on tape if someone makes a complaint against an officer.

joe40

Nozebleed wrote: »

How realistic are BLM being here with their manifesto?

http://archive.is/dGyqs


We demand an end to the war against Black people. Since this country’s inception there have been named and unnamed wars on our communities. We demand an end to the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people. This includes:

1 An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.

2 An end to capital punishment.

3 An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.

4 An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.

5 An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.

6 An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.

7 An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).

8 The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.

9 An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.

10 Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.

Most of those things are bog standard human rights in other countries, including Ireland.

whippet

most of this is just American society - remove 'black' from that list and it could apply to any community in the US

The US is broken.

In no way am I suggesting that there is an issue with systematic racism in the US - its just these generic statements can be applied to almost all communities in the US

hots

1 An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.
A lot to unpack, I think media portrayal will change for sure, they'll be more aware. Stopping the arrest of students full stop seem stupid. I doubt they can remove police altogether with the prevalence of guns in America. More funding for restorative services sounds good

2 An end to capital punishment.
Agree, it seems ineffective in pretty much every measure, not sure why it's in their manifesto though

3 An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.
Yup sounds good

4 An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.
Agreed, any sort of criminal record in the states f/ucks you for life. Once you serve your punishment that should be it, outside of sex offenders etc.

5 An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.
Disagree, although the detention centers are shi/te. Enforcing whatever immigration rules a country has is important

6 An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.
Sure? If they're excluded now stick them on the list "All humans have the right..."

7 An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).
Awful call, bodyworn cameras are a net good for everyone and some of the footage captured by them is highlighting police brutality in these very protests. Protects the officers wearing them and the public facing them. Even their presence makes people consider their actions. Rubbish point.

8 The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.
Basically impossible with the amount of guns in the states but a reform is needed for sure. No need for the tanks and not-quite-army men roaming around. More accountability for use of all force is needed

9 An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.
Big yes, absolute farce of a system that motivates keeping prisoners and encourages recidivism

10 Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.
An end to all jails is just silly. Same for no shackling of pregnant people. Access to healthcare for all sounds good.

joe40

hots wrote: »

1 An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.
A lot to unpack, I think media portrayal will change for sure, they'll be more aware. Stopping the arrest of students full stop seem stupid. I doubt they can remove police altogether with the prevalence of guns in America. More funding for restorative services sounds good

2 An end to capital punishment.
Agree, it seems ineffective in pretty much every measure, not sure why it's in their manifesto though

3 An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.
Yup sounds good

4 An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.
Agreed, any sort of criminal record in the states f/ucks you for life. Once you serve your punishment that should be it, outside of sex offenders etc.

5 An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.
Disagree, although the detention centers are shi/te. Enforcing whatever immigration rules a country has is important

6 An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.
Sure? If they're excluded now stick them on the list "All humans have the right..."

7 An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).
Awful call, bodyworn cameras are a net good for everyone and some of the footage captured by them is highlighting police brutality in these very protests. Protects the officers wearing them and the public facing them. Even their presence makes people consider their actions. Rubbish point.

8 The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.
Basically impossible with the amount of guns in the states but a reform is needed for sure. No need for the tanks and not-quite-army men roaming around. More accountability for use of all force is needed

9 An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.
Big yes, absolute farce of a system that motivates keeping prisoners and encourages recidivism

10 Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.
An end to all jails is just silly. Same for no shackling of pregnant people. Access to healthcare for all sounds good.

Good post, but on your last point, they're not calling for an end to jails, that would be silly they have said an "end to jails.. as we know them" Which is perfectly justified in America. Johnny cash was singing about San Quentin many years ago


I also believe the shackling should also only be used if there is a real risk of violence. Pregnant woman should not need to be shackled. We don't do that.

All manifesto are aspirational to a point, but I could agree with most of that.
Even if partially implemented it would benefit more than just the black community.

Rodney Bathgate

the purple tin wrote: »

Why do they want body cameras removed from police? Surely it's better to have everything on tape if someone makes a complaint against an officer.

So that they can claim that any armed suspects were unarmed and the police don’t have incontrovertible proof that the suspect was armed and did draw and did engage in threatening behaviour.

They know that their target audience will give the suspect the benefit of the doubt. Even if the suspect has a record the length of my arm.

hots

joe40 wrote: »

Good post, but on your last point, they're not calling for an end to jails, that would be silly they have said an "end to jails.. as we know them" Which is perfectly justified in America. Johnny cash was singing about San Quentin many years ago


I also believe the shackling should also only be used if there is a real risk of violence. Pregnant woman should not need to be shackled. We don't do that.

All manifesto are aspirational to a point, but I could agree with most of that.
Even if partially implemented it would benefit more than just the black community.

Poor reading comprehension on my part there. And probably my misunderstanding of shackling (I thought they were exaggerating being handcuffed which maybe they aren't?). I agree though, there are some good points which will benefit society as a whole.

whisky_galore

Pregnant "people".

One eyed Jack

I wonder how many black people were actually consulted about what they wanted, before a small minority of idiots took it upon themselves to write that tripe claiming their opinions were representative of black people.

Rodney Bathgate

whisky_galore wrote: »

Pregnant "people".

A persons sex has no bearing on whether that person can menstruate, get pregnant or give birth. You need to join the rest of us in the 21st century, leave your common sense where it belongs, in your cave.

joe40

hots wrote: »

Poor reading comprehension on my part there. And probably my misunderstanding of shackling (I thought they were exaggerating being handcuffed which maybe they aren't?). I agree though, there are some good points which will benefit society as a whole.

I presumed shackling was the feet and hands cuffed, maybe I'm wrong.

I hadn't noticed the "pregnant people" term. Don't have any issue with that.

suicide_circus

Gentle reminder about modern life in The West: this is the least racist society, in the least racist part of the world, in the least racist era to have ever existed.

Context.

Eric Cartman

They basically want a return to the policing model which saw 80s new york as a cesspit of crime where nobody was safe.

I see nothing in that manifesto about looking for educatuon and alternative training to keep young black people awa from crime, I see nothing about access to business loans or promotion of job opportunities and businesses in the community.

Reads like a pavee point manifesto

AbusesToilets

They're a black supremacist movement, with the goal of tearing down white aspects of society. No amount of appeasement will ever be enough to satisfy them.

the purple tin

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're a black supremacist movement, with the goal of tearing down white aspects of society. No amount of appeasement will ever be enough to satisfy them.

Well they haven't a hope in Hell of getting those demands met. But then again that is exactly what they were hoping for when they were thinking them up I'd say.

Odhinn

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're a black supremacist movement, with the goal of tearing down white aspects of society. No amount of appeasement will ever be enough to satisfy them.

What are these "white apects" of society?

bloodless_coup

So they just want a free pass for all criminal activity?

y0ssar1an22

Nozebleed wrote: »

How realistic are BLM being here with their manifesto?

http://archive.is/dGyqs


We demand an end to the war against Black people. Since this country’s inception there have been named and unnamed wars on our communities. We demand an end to the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people. This includes:

1 An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.

2 An end to capital punishment.

3 An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.

4 An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.

5 An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.

6 An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.

7 An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).

8 The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.

9 An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.

10 Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.

i disagree with most of these, but surely BLM must 1st prove that all the above are being perpetrated against the black community due to racism.

and they want an end to body cams? that cant be right surely?!

suicide_circus

It's also worth remembering that BLM does not "speak for" black people in the States (or anywhere else for that matter) as if they're some homogenous group with a hive mind...although admittedly that is the DNC's view of black folk.