Ultimate Flag Tournament thread moved

Omackeral

Baggly wrote: »

To give my answer, no it wasn't moved to kill it. It was moved to keep it going. The balance of light hearted vs serious topics had tipped to the latter. If you want serious discussion like the one you were having re teachers, it doesn't belong in AH.

Any reasonable reasonwhy the new Ultimate Flag Tournament was moved from AH to the Other Forums Games section? The tournaments are harmless and very lighthearted. They also generate a nice bit of discussion and community spirit, pretty much what After Hours should be, I'd have thought. I know there was a PM last week, which I admit I forgot about until my thread was moved, but were these threads actually causing any headaches for the moderator team?

Any chance it can be moved back?

Deebles McBeebles

I thought, as mentioned in the locking of the purge thread, the flag tournament was part of the new "healthy fun" AH? Odd that is was moved. Very strange.

This is it

No one knows what AH is anymore, mods or posters. What made it is now gone.

Baggly

This has nothing got to do with CA but I'll post an update in feedback if you want.

EDIT: Sorry I misspoke. Posted in help desk.

Baggly

So on tournament threads in AH in general.

The mod team discussed it and as the tournaments are essentially games they belong in the Forum Games forum.

This was also discussed with my fellow Co mods in Forum Games and there was agreement there too.

From being a mod of both i am aware that FG is more suited to games and has specific forum and sub forum charters to manage forum games, whereas AH is based on light hearted discussion and chat.

While the latest tournament absolutely met the brief of being in good spirits and for the most part light hearted, that doesn't necessarily mean AH is its correct home.

The AH mod team recognise that the tournaments may have moved back to AH for the flag tournament because there may not have been the exposure and participation that was desired for other tournaments that had been hosted in Forum Games. As such, we agreed to create a stickied thread in AH so that any AHers that want to be notified of a tournament can follow this thread and they will be thusly notified.

As I said above, these won't be free for all style tournaments. They will follow site rules.... But as the last flag tournament showed imo, those types of tournaments are popular too.

We gave Omack a heads up on this and thanked him for his time and effort with tournament threads so far. I'll say that again here and hope he will continue running them.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Omackeral wrote: »

Any reasonable reasonwhy the new Ultimate Flag Tournament was moved from AH to the Other Forums Games section? The tournaments are harmless and very lighthearted. They also generate a nice bit of discussion and community spirit, pretty much what After Hours should be, I'd have thought. I know there was a PM last week, which I admit I forgot about until my thread was moved, but were these threads actually causing any headaches for the moderator team?

Any chance it can be moved back?

I guess flags just aren't very interesting. No one is really going to get too excited about a competition about the colour of Fiji's flag. Not really that light-hearted and more suited to an anorak forum like the games one.

Omackeral

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I guess flags just aren't very interesting. No one is really going to get too excited about a competition about the colour of Fiji's flag.

The thousands of replies would say otherwise. Was the fastest moving and busiest thread on the forum while it was going. Plenty of posters enjoyed it and took part.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Omackeral wrote: »

The thousands of replies would say otherwise. Was the fastest moving and busiest thread on the forum while it was going. Plenty of posters enjoyed it and took part.

I've ran the numbers and it had 63% less engagement than previous competitions like the biscuit tournament. Which itself was almost 71% less interesting than the crisp one.

Flags just aren't very interesting.

EmmetSpiceland

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I've ran the numbers and it had 63% less engagement than previous competitions like the biscuit tournament. Which itself was almost 71% less interesting than the crisp one.

Flags just aren't very interesting.

They may not be “interesting”, P, but they are, certainly, not contentious.

The latter “tournaments” seem to be designed that way so as to avoid any robust, or hotly debated, interactions.

Which, itself, is a bit of a shame as it was a lot of fun defending, say, your favourite crisp/corn snack to the bitter end. Although, it was very disheartening to see, just, how many sad, sad, individuals have “cheese and onion” as their favourite flavour.

Can you imagine that? I’m guessing they must have spent their life, from baby to teen, surviving only on a turnip based diet, or something equally as grim. Maybe others lost their sense of taste after a knock to the head.

Either way, it was very disheartening. But still fun.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Posts separated out and moved from an unrelated thread in Feedback. I've moved Baggly's response from the other Help Desk thread to here (post #5 above) as it is specifically related to this issue.

Omackeral

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Flags just aren't very interesting.

In your opinion. Plenty of people thought they were.

Also, I didn't start this thread but might as well see what constitutes ''lighthearted fun'' while we're here.

Leg End Reject

The last flag tournament was great, even if Foghorn Leghorn, a dragon, siamese twin eagles and a rug got eliminated.

After the abrupt closure of the purge thread, and successfully appealed cards/bans, there weren't any insults, so I've no idea what arbitrary excuse has been dreamed up for this move. There seems to be a concerted effort to kill AH lately.

Maybe we should all take up knitting with grandma.

Baggly

AH is doing great. Why do you think otherwise?

Reasoning is simple.... forum based games go in Forum Games.

Is there a reason we wouldn't put it where it belongs? Where there are mods who are used to managing games? Where charters are in place specifically for games?

Baggly

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I've ran the numbers and it had 63% less engagement than previous competitions like the biscuit tournament. Which itself was almost 71% less interesting than the crisp one.

Flags just aren't very interesting.

Comparing two different beasts entirely. I thought the flag tournament was great and the feedback in the thread itself says I'm not alone in thinking that.

Not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but as has been said elsewhere, the free for all insults aren't an option, so there you go.

Necro

Leg End Reject wrote: »

The last flag tournament was great, even if Foghorn Leghorn, a dragon, siamese twin eagles and a rug got eliminated.

After the abrupt closure of the purge thread, and successfully appealed cards/bans, there weren't any insults, so I've no idea what arbitrary excuse has been dreamed up for this move. There seems to be a concerted effort to kill AH lately.

Maybe we should all take up knitting with grandma.

From my perspective as both AH mod and participant in these games (many of which take place in Forum Games on an almost weekly basis), I'm trying to see what the problem is.

One of the main rules in AH is not to use the forum to reach a wider audience. The other tournaments worked fine in Other Forum Games so I don't see the difference.

Games go to a forum dedicated as such for them, light hearted discussion and threads as such to to AH.

Skylinehead

I've not been active recently, had (and have) a lot of Masters work going on. I would have said something if I'd noticed, apologies to all for that.

I completely disagree with moving it. It was perfectly fine in AH, maybe the original ones got out of hand, but like what was wrong with the flag tournament? That was perfect. Boards isn't big enough for this any more, they'll just go off to die now. Shame.

Wayne Jarvis

The quoted post here says it all for me, Mods don't even want people to disagree with each other in case it leads to an argument, why that's an issue I don't know but that's just how it is. Sure 'twas fun while it lasted.

Baggly wrote: »

Mod

Hi gang,

Please note it would not be a wise course of action for us to start commenting on others TAs as TA.

It discourages contribution and makes a very enjoyable thread adversarial.

As I have said before in a mod note on this thread, each person's TA is their own. I would hate to see posters discussing others for posting in this thread: intentionally or otherwise. It will kill the thread in the long run.

Any queries on this please PM me.

Arghus

Okay, strictly speaking, it is a forum game so there is already a forum for that and trying to bring users to some of the relatively unexplored corners of the site isn't a bad goal in and of itself.

But, really, I think this was a bad decision. The previous thread was absolutely brilliant. I can't think of the last time I read through a thread in AH that went to hundreds of replies with absolutely zero rancour or genuine argument between posters. It was a great advertisement for the often forgotten community spirit of this site.

And AH brings a diversity of posters, opinons and tone that you don't find elsewhere. Hosting it in AH makes it different. A film thread in AH is different from a film thread in the film forum

You could make an argument that about 90% of the threads on the forum could arguably exist in other more appropriate forums, it seems like overkill to me to apply strictness in this instance. Especially when no harm is done to anyone by this thread remaining where it was, just inevitably more people seeing it, contributing to it and enjoying it, than they would elsewhere.

The ethos should always be to ensure the greatest possible engagement and enjoyment with the greatest amount of users and step one of that would be leaving a fun and harmless thread like that in AH.

Once the thread is finished and is longer "live", why not move it then?

Purgative

I don't get into After Hours much some how it doesn't do much for me anymore.

The Flags thread, the interesting maps thread, oh there was another one about anal sex a few years ago.

I don't understand the rationale where these things have started generically, are very popular and are then hived off to some dark corner of Boards, to whither and die.

I think it was Dev who said he wanted to be rid of AH (I paraphrase badly) - why not just close it then.

Purgative

I don't see why these popular generic threads are hived off to the dark corners of boards.


They're popular, generate: interest, traffic, views isn't that what Boards is after?

Pawwed Rig

Seems to be going ok in forum games. It is a fairly busy forum aswell.

Beasty

Guy Person wrote: »

The quoted post here says it all for me, Mods don't even want people to disagree with each other in case it leads to an argument, why that's an issue I don't know but that's just how it is. Sure 'twas fun while it lasted.

I've just approved a number of posts and you will not have seen this one before you posted above:

Skylinehead wrote: »

I've not been active recently, had (and have) a lot of Masters work going on. I would have said something if I'd noticed, apologies to all for that.

I completely disagree with moving it. It was perfectly fine in AH, maybe the original ones got out of hand, but like what was wrong with the flag tournament? That was perfect. Boards isn't big enough for this any more, they'll just go off to die now. Shame.

I think you can safely say your comment about mods not wanting to disagree with each other is not supported here

And just to add further to this - I openly disagreed with the decision to move the Unpopular Opinions thread. I've accepted it and moved on

Baggly

The reason there is an explicit rule in the AH charter for not starting threads to boost numbers if they really belong somewhere else is because it leads to a bloated AH which would mean threads go unnoticed from too much noise.

I also reject the idea that FG is a 'dark corner' of boards.

There have been more posts in 'Other Forum Games' in the past 24 hours than have been in AH (and it hasnt even been that quiet in AH). Im not just saying it because i mod there, but its a very active community on boards.

Baggly

Guy Person wrote: »

The quoted post here says it all for me, Mods don't even want people to disagree with each other in case it leads to an argument, why that's an issue I don't know but that's just how it is. Sure 'twas fun while it lasted.

Im not sure how that relates to the tournament threads, but regardless i think you are taking that mod note out of context. TA is also a healthy active place on boards and its important we don't have people sniping at each other on the thread.

Disagreements happen all the time and at no point will mods say don't discuss or disagree with each other. What's in that note is something completely different to maintain the status quo of healthy posting in that thread.

Leg End Reject

Skylinehead wrote: »

I've not been active recently, had (and have) a lot of Masters work going on. I would have said something if I'd noticed, apologies to all for that.

I completely disagree with moving it. It was perfectly fine in AH, maybe the original ones got out of hand, but like what was wrong with the flag tournament? That was perfect. Boards isn't big enough for this any more, they'll just go off to die now. Shame.

The original ones were great craic, everyone who participated knew the score and no bad feeling carried over into other threads. I'm glad at least 1 mod agrees.

Threads are being moved now and a lot more warnings appearing in what's supposed to be a fun forum.

Anyway, best of luck with your masters, it's not the easiest of years for it.

Baggly

Arghus wrote: »

The ethos should always be to ensure the greatest possible engagement and enjoyment with the greatest amount of users and step one of that would be leaving a fun and harmless thread like that in AH.

Once the thread is finished and is longer "live", why not move it then?

Ill play devils advocate here but....so i am good to let other games into AH as well then. Werewolf, codenames; lets move puzzles and quizzes in too.....

You can see where im going - how do you decide what ones go to AH and which ones dont? A line already exists - move the games to the forum built for them.

EmmetSpiceland

If I could just make a suggestion regarding these “anomaly” threads in AH. Obviously, the thread about the book your “currently reading” or the one about the music your listening to should be in the “Literature” and “Music” forums, respectively.

Yet, they are not. They sit proudly, and popularly, in AH. Could these flagship threads be used as a way to “encourage” users to visit the far flung corners of the site?

Maybe a link on the first post? Would be the same for these “Ultimate Tournaments”. While they may be, strictly, suited to that, dreadful, “Forum Games”, they could be better served as a way of getting more users into that forum.

I understand that I may be coming across as a bit of “hypocrite” since I was one if those looking to have “Unpopular Opinons” moved to the “Current Affairs” forum but that place needs no adversing. Best leave the denizens of that hellhole where they are.

There is certainly “precedent” to have the tournament threads appearing in AH, at the moderators discretion, of course, and, I would suggest, there is a way to use them as a way to attract users into other forums where they could find other, similar, topics that may interest them.

Just a thought.

Deebles McBeebles

Skylinehead wrote: »

I completely disagree with moving it. It was perfectly fine in AH, maybe the original ones got out of hand, but like what was wrong with the flag tournament? That was perfect. Boards isn't big enough for this any more, they'll just go off to die now. Shame.

Fair play. Although I disagree with the previous tournament threads getting out of hand. It does show that clearly not all mods will just toe the party line.

Baggly wrote: »

AH is doing great. Why do you think otherwise?

Maybe we could take a look at some numbers (active users in AH) if you have them available? Say the last 3 months in comparison to the same period last year? Given we have been in lockdown for most of that period, the users should be far higher this year.

I pop in to AH once in a while as there are still a few interesting threads there and (anecdotal, I know) the number of users seems to have dropped drastically. The argument can be made that CA and Covid19 are taking away from AH but I have my doubts. AH was fun for people, neither CA nor Covid19 forums can say that so the drop off in use shouldn't be that much.

I would echo the people saying the community spirit of AH is gone. It was a place to have a bit of "After Hours" type fun, like taking the p*ss out of each other in a totally harmless way, for instance. No one got hurt, no hard feelings and reading those threads was totally optional.

Wayne Jarvis

Beasty wrote: »

I think you can safely say your comment about mods not wanting to disagree with each other is not supported here

That's not what I said, I said they didn't want people to disagree with each other for fear of arguments starting and I stand by that.

Baggly wrote: »

Im not sure how that relates to the tournament threads, but regardless i think you are taking that mod note out of context. TA is also a healthy active place on boards and its important we don't have people sniping at each other on the thread.

Disagreements happen all the time and at no point will mods say don't discuss or disagree with each other. What's in that note is something completely different to maintain the status quo of healthy posting in that thread.

It is at most very vaguely related to the tournament threads I know but I saw this thread so decided to post in it. That message was odd to me because one poster said something and then another slightly disagreed with her and that was that. There was no sniping of any kind yet the Mod warning comes anyway. The Modding in After Hours does seem heavy handed to me recently and that was an example of it. As you say this isn't the thread to discuss it and we aren't going to change each others minds so we should just agree to disa.... eh poor choice of words

Omackeral

Necro wrote: »

From my perspective as both AH mod and participant in these games (many of which take place in Forum Games on an almost weekly basis), I'm trying to see what the problem is.

One of the main rules in AH is not to use the forum to reach a wider audience. The other tournaments worked fine in Other Forum Games so I don't see the difference.

Games go to a forum dedicated as such for them, light hearted discussion and threads as such to to AH.

The tournaments I started began in After Hours to be very fair, before I knew there was another sub forum for games. They weren’t put there to reach a wider audience by any stretch. The craic and nostalgia of old school crisps , bars etc and chat regarding same was as much the draw as anything else. Plenty of light hearted chat to be had too. Sure the boards twitter promotes those threads and all.

Having said that, I’ve no real issue with the move of this thread as it’s admittedly more niche than the world flags one.

Omackeral

Another point I’ll add is that the majority of posters that were actually contributing seem to be miffed a bit by the move.