Ultimate Flag Tournament thread moved

Omackeral

Arghus wrote: »

And AH brings a diversity of posters, opinons and tone that you don't find elsewhere. Hosting it in AH makes it different. A film thread in AH is different from a film thread in the film forum.

Great observation. I loved hearing the mixed perspective of vexillology nerds like Cdeb and people admittedly who had zero clue about flags but jumping into it. Then you had girls like Candie liking flags because they’re “pretty” and then messers like Leg End Reject giving us a laugh in between. The AH pick and mix of folks and their personalities is what gave me a great bit of joy doing it. Made the painstaking work worth it because people were enjoying it.

It wasn’t broke, didn’t need fixing is what seems to be the opinion but I digress as it is ticking along fairly alright in the new spot.

Omackeral

Baggly wrote: »

The reason there is an explicit rule in the AH charter for not starting threads to boost numbers if they really belong somewhere else

100% not the case, hand on heart. The community banter of AH is the draw, especially since the creation of Current Affairs. Harmless chat fused with opinions with a bit of structure to them.

Leg End Reject

Omackeral wrote: »

100% not the case, hand on heart. The community banter of AH is the draw, especially since the creation of Current Affairs. Harmless chat fused with opinions with a bit of structure to them.

Yeah, I didn't find it the same in Forum Games at all, it's just a different dynamic.

Maybe the "What are you eating and drinking" thread should be moved to food?

The "Funniest Joke" and YouTube videos to Entertainment.

The "Etiquette" thread to Creative Writing, as fair play to the lads, they've practically adapted the English language to describe their daily throne visits.

Maybe the "Blackface" one to Current Affairs, the regular "I'm too short/ugly/yellow teeth/still a virgin" to personal issues.

It'll be fairly empty, but everything will be neatly packaged in their own niche forums.

Arghus

Baggly wrote: »

Ill play devils advocate here but....so i am good to let other games into AH as well then. Werewolf, codenames; lets move puzzles and quizzes in too.....

You can see where im going - how do you decide what ones go to AH and which ones dont? A line already exists - move the games to the forum built for them.

I think there has to be a bit of discretion and awareness of the particulars of each individual case.

The likes of werewolf games and codenames and such seem to exist just fine where they are, at least from what I can see anyway. No one here is arguing that they should be moved out to AH. They're doing fine where they are and Omackeral's thread/threads were doing fine where they were. I still fail to see the harm in that.

You could also argue whether the ultimate tournament format type thread is even a "game" in the same way that any of the above are. It's essentially a popularity contest - is that really a game?

The flag thread was a popular thread in AH and, in my opinion, it was enlivened and enriched by the engagement of posters who make up the community in AH. It is inevitable that when it is moved that at least a proportion of people won't follow it and it, more than likely, won't have quite the same character.

Many moons ago there was a thread in AH of "what are your favourite album covers" - it was popular and interesting, with a huge variety of opinion. Then it was moved to the music forum... and promptly died. Was the music forum the right place for it? Arguably, yes, but what good was that decision when the end result was the killing off of what had previously been a busy thread.

Now, that probably won't happen in this case - a sticky at the top of the forum sure helps! - but I think the application of the rule of what goes exactly where is more open to discretion, rather than being hard and fast.

Baggly

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I would echo the people saying the community spirit of AH is gone. It was a place to have a bit of "After Hours" type fun, like taking the p*ss out of each other in a totally harmless way, for instance. No one got hurt, no hard feelings and reading those threads was totally optional.

If you are referring to the purge threads and earlier tournament threads which were a free for all.... It's against site rules. If that is the type of spirit that appeals to you then I'm sorry but it's just not going to happen.

Omackeral wrote: »

The tournaments I started began in After Hours to be very fair, before I knew there was another sub forum for games. They weren’t put there to reach a wider audience by any stretch. The craic and nostalgia of old school crisps , bars etc and chat regarding same was as much the draw as anything else. Plenty of light hearted chat to be had too. Sure the boards twitter promotes those threads and all.

Having said that, I’ve no real issue with the move of this thread as it’s admittedly more niche than the world flags one.

Werewolf started in AH too. It now has its own sub forum. Lots of things start in AH.

Omackeral wrote: »

Another point I’ll add is that the majority of posters that were actually contributing seem to be miffed a bit by the move.

As you note below, contribution seems to be good in the new tournament. As they progress hopefully others will rejoin.

Omackeral wrote: »

Great observation. I loved hearing the mixed perspective of vexillology nerds like Cdeb and people admittedly who had zero clue about flags but jumping into it. Then you had girls like Candie liking flags because they’re “pretty” and then messers like Leg End Reject giving us a laugh in between. The AH pick and mix of folks and their personalities is what gave me a great bit of joy doing it. Made the painstaking work worth it because people were enjoying it.

It wasn’t broke, didn’t need fixing is what seems to be the opinion but I digress as it is ticking along fairly alright in the new spot.

See you say getting numbers wasn't the goal but then you list posters you feel would take part if it was in AH. As I've said multiple times we are really appreciative of your effort (everyone who takes part) and that is still true with the current game hosted in FG.

Omackeral wrote: »

100% not the case, hand on heart. The community banter of AH is the draw, especially since the creation of Current Affairs. Harmless chat fused with opinions with a bit of structure to them.

If I've wrongly assumed there I'm sorry. I just thought it odd you moved the tournaments back to AH having hosted them in FG for a while.

I respectfully disagree still however. FG is the right place for forum based games.

Baggly

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

If I could just make a suggestion regarding these “anomaly” threads in AH. Obviously, the thread about the book your “currently reading” or the one about the music your listening to should be in the “Literature” and “Music” forums, respectively.

Yet, they are not. They sit proudly, and popularly, in AH. Could these flagship threads be used as a way to “encourage” users to visit the far flung corners of the site?

Maybe a link on the first post? Would be the same for these “Ultimate Tournaments”. While they may be, strictly, suited to that, dreadful, “Forum Games”, they could be better served as a way of getting more users into that forum.

I understand that I may be coming across as a bit of “hypocrite” since I was one if those looking to have “Unpopular Opinons” moved to the “Current Affairs” forum but that place needs no adversing. Best leave the denizens of that hellhole where they are.

There is certainly “precedent” to have the tournament threads appearing in AH, at the moderators discretion, of course, and, I would suggest, there is a way to use them as a way to attract users into other forums where they could find other, similar, topics that may interest them.

Just a thought.

There is, i believe, a distinction to be made between the music or tv or pop culture threads that run in AH and have links to the more specific forums for those topics, and a tournament thread.

Its no different to why we dont host quizzes in AH - or any of the other games that get hosted elsewhere on the site. There is a better place for them with a better setup, dedicated mods and other users who would also like to join in.

If a link to AH is what is desired to make sure the posters of AH (some of whom Omackeral has mentioned) are more likely to join in and have fun with the tournament, then i understand that and the AH mods have made a notification thread for the tournaments that will notify posters in AH if a new tournament is started.

This is not something we have or will be doing for other threads elsewhere in the site - i think its a fair compromise and would encourage as many people as possible to 'follow' this thread, so that when a new tournament starts, it will appear in your list of threads with new posts in them.

Baggly

Derp - here is the link to that thread. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058085207

Omackeral

Baggly wrote: »

Werewolf started in AH too. It now has its own sub forum. Lots of things start in AH.

Werewolf requires temporary alternative usernames. Not fit for AH really as you don’t know who you’re chatting to. A different animal, so to speak.

Baggly wrote: »

See you say getting numbers wasn't the goal but then you list posters you feel would take part if it was in AH.

No. I’ve listed posters that have taken part. I’ve listed them because they’re part of the After Hours community. I’ve always been told that AH was meant to be like meeting mates in a virtual pub. That’s why I listed them, they’re all community members who know each other on some level. Was never put in AH for wider reach. As stated, was started there because it’s a vibrant hub for chatting and messing and the crisp, bar and tv show ones all did extremely well there.

Baggly wrote: »

If I've wrongly assumed there I'm sorry. I just thought it odd you moved the tournaments back to AH having hosted them in FG for a while.

I’ve stuck a few niche ones in the other games sub forum but the ones that I felt had a bit of banter to them potentially I’d slap in the “lighthearted and fun” After Hours. Have a bit of faith that I know what I’m doing and I’ll be more mindful of what goes where in the future?

Baggly wrote: »

I respectfully disagree still however. FG is the right place for forum based games.

And I respectfully reply that the majority of users here seem to think they’re a great fit for After Hours, even a few moderators seem to think the same.

What I will say is that I’ve been around long enough to gauge what is and isn’t gonna get good traction on a tournament and whether it’s AH material or not. Of course that’s an opinion but I’ve made literally thousands of posts and feel I’ve an idea of what fits where. I actually have no major issue with the current state flag tournament being where it is as I concede it’s more niche.

I think the reason that it takes up too much space in AH is a bit hollow though when you’ve ongoing threads about bathroom habits, what you’re eating now and an abundance of threads from a hit and run OP who never offers much after the first post. Tournament threads last a few days or a week at most. Maybe have a bit of faith in the person starting them and that they know what they’re at.

quickbeam

People can also follow the FG Thread that notifies them of new games (not just Boardsies Decide games).

As word spreads, hopefully there can be plenty of participation in these threads in their new home, with plenty of banter.

Necro

Omackeral wrote:

Werewolf requires temporary alternative usernames. Not fit for AH really as you don’t know who you’re chatting to. A different animal, so to speak.

Sometimes, not always.

Actually the story of the origin of Werewolf on Boards is not entirely dissimilar to the tournaments, so it's probably worth noting.

The original game was played in AH and ran by Jayop, who got thread banned temporarily by an AH mod who thought he was backseat modding. Eventually the decision was made that due to re-reg trolls and people who just wanted to disrupt/didn't understand the game that it needed to be held elsewhere, where a distinction between 'game mod' and 'forum mod' could be correctly adhered to.

That way the game runner can post in bold and call matches (or announce game related stuff) without drawing the ire of forum mods.

Another example of why the threads are better suited to a dedicated forum as opposed to being held in AH, in my opinion anyways.

Pintman Paddy Losty

I think the pub analogy fits.

People talk about crisps and how meanies are the greatest crisp in the pub with a pint (AH)

People talk about flags in their basements after a game of dungeons and dragons (Forum Games)

Baggly

Omackeral wrote: »

Werewolf requires temporary alternative usernames. Not fit for AH really as you don’t know who you’re chatting to. A different animal, so to speak.

As Necro has said, this isnt always the case. And in fact in the majority of cases, normal user accounts are used to play.

Omackeral wrote: »

No. I’ve listed posters that have taken part. I’ve listed them because they’re part of the After Hours community. I’ve always been told that AH was meant to be like meeting mates in a virtual pub. That’s why I listed them, they’re all community members who know each other on some level. Was never put in AH for wider reach. As stated, was started there because it’s a vibrant hub for chatting and messing and the crisp, bar and tv show ones all did extremely well there.

I’ve stuck a few niche ones in the other games sub forum but the ones that I felt had a bit of banter to them potentially I’d slap in the “lighthearted and fun” After Hours. Have a bit of faith that I know what I’m doing and I’ll be more mindful of what goes where in the future?

Look that would be fine but it wasnt a lack of faith - the mod team agreed to engage with you and you forgot / didnt respond to the PM on the topic. Next time we hear from you on tournaments you start one in the wrong place. So if we are talking faith here, it did come across as acting in bad faith towards the mods. That's ok though. Its all cleared up now.

FWIW, we are delighted with how you ran the flag tournament and its obvious to all you know what you are doing when it comes to running a tournament. However, we are forum mods and you should have a bit of faith we know what we are doing in running a forum in future.

With the benefit of some time having passed, we can see some of the regulars have joined the tournament in FG - so i think that point is resolved regardless.

Omackeral wrote: »

And I respectfully reply that the majority of users here seem to think they’re a great fit for After Hours, even a few moderators seem to think the same.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - it is a discussion site after all - but i have not seen any compelling reason to allow a separate rule for your tournaments over all the other tournaments that take place on boards. To play devils advocate - should they all go in AH now? Or just yours? And if the latter, why the exception? To answer my own question - there shouldnt be an exception. Its the same rule for you as it is for anyone else that runs a forum based game.

Omackeral wrote: »

What I will say is that I’ve been around long enough to gauge what is and isn’t gonna get good traction on a tournament and whether it’s AH material or not. Of course that’s an opinion but I’ve made literally thousands of posts and feel I’ve an idea of what fits where. I actually have no major issue with the current state flag tournament being where it is as I concede it’s more niche.

Ive been around a long time too. Ive modded both fora and run lots of tournaments and games as well. So given that experience and given the fact ive been asked as mod to do my job and apply the rules, ill disagree with you. Id also disagree that where a game belongs is dependent on mass appeal vs. niche. Either way - they really should be going into Forum Games. If it is indeed mass appeal and not niche, it shouldnt actually matter anyway.

Omackeral wrote: »

I think the reason that it takes up too much space in AH is a bit hollow though when you’ve ongoing threads about bathroom habits, what you’re eating now and an abundance of threads from a hit and run OP who never offers much after the first post. Tournament threads last a few days or a week at most. Maybe have a bit of faith in the person starting them and that they know what they’re at.

Im sure the above is just a misunderstanding because i didnt clarify my position well. Ill correct that now. Lighthearted discussion and other light hearted threads like the ones you mentioned go in AH. Forum based games go in Forum Games.

If we allow an exception for your tournaments, the same will be expected for other game runners; be it tournaments, quizzes or whatever other games appear. I cant tell those people no because there is no actual reason for an exception for your tournaments, so if we allow yours we should logically allow theirs also.

If you move all those threads to AH, the forum does get busier - and the discussion and other light hearted threads do get swallowed in the noise. Its the reason why lots of threads are moved from AH to other fora.

As i said in PM and as i said previously (in feedback iirc) we have no issue with how you run the tournaments within the rules of the forum. We (mods and, im sure, everyone who takes part would be delighted if you kept going with them. There is a lot of work that goes into them and that is hugely appreciated. If you decide not to thats very regretable but thats your decision. Ours is to move the tournament threads to their new home in Forum Games.

I appreciate the discussion with me - i dont want to monopolise the thread. I think ive said all i can at this stage.

osarusan

My previous thought on AH threads being moved away from AH.

osarusan wrote: »

One of the things about a community spirit or whatever on a forum is is that people get to know posters, and enjoy interacting with them, and want to hear what they think about different topics.

If somebody starts a "best film you have ever seen" thread in AH, maybe they want to hear what the AH regulars have to say, rather than a discussion of film in the film forum with a bunch of posters they don't know.

Omackeral

osarusan wrote: »

My previous thought on AH threads being moved away from AH.

Do you know what? I think we might be able to rumble up some community spirit in the Games Forum if enough people get involved. I’ll run one tournament a month if people want it. I’ve plenty of ideas in mind and am open to suggestions of others too.

If the mods want to post that idea in the new sticky on AH that’s cool!

Deja Boo

I enjoyed your flag tourney and look forward to more in Forum Games. Thanks and well done, Mistur Omac!

Baggly

The sticky in AH is for announcing new games so no problem once the new game is ready to go Omackeral.

Baggly

Please note we now have a dedicated sub forum of the main Forum Games forum, especially for tournaments.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1834

Pawwed Rig

Omackeral wrote: »

Do you know what? I think we might be able to rumble up some community spirit in the Games Forum if enough people get involved.

It is already a very vibrant forum that has a great spirit. It is one of the few that still do regular beers and there is virtually never any badness there despite it being one of the busiest forums in my categories.

I have jumped in an out of it over time and they have always been welcoming.
If you want a real taster sign up for a werewolf game (although it will take ALL of your time until you are munched or strung up).

I don't know why putting the tournament threads where more people will enjoy it is a bad thing. Some things just suit AH, there are residents there who don't seem to venture much further who would participate and enjoy those threads in AH but not elsewhere.

They might be more suited to FG on paper, but it would be more widely enjoyed and appreciated in AH, and I guess I don't get why this isn't something universally embraced. AH is pretty dead lately, full of chat and toilet threads - which have their place - but little else. I'm not much of a thread starter, so it's a shame when popular ones with a lot of thought and effort put into them are shunted off to other forums when they're so well embraced by the denizens of AH who would provide maximum engagement if left where they were started.