Gone with the Wind Cancelled

na1

Tony EH wrote: »

What "outdated" attitudes does 'Aliens' have?

Nowadays literally any film can be considered 'offensive' by some group of people.
It just a matter of how strong & organised that group is.
If they can start riots & violent attacks, then they have a chance to ban a certain category of the films.

Joe Columbo

Tony EH wrote: »

What "outdated" attitudes does 'Aliens' have?

It's a blatant promotion of colonialism by having the Humans as the good guys and the aliens as the bad guys even though it's happening outer space.The humans had no right to go into outer space we should ahve left the aliens to live their lives on peace.


James Cameron should be ashamed of himself.

McDermotX

White Chicks on Sky, of course carries the same message..........Sky are sooooo 'right on'.

na1

Tony EH wrote: »

You might as well just put that "message" on the front of everything that was made before 2015.

its just a matter of who is offended. The notorious Charlie Hebdo is still operating, but they will be shut down immediately if they start making racist jokes.

McDermotX

Tony EH wrote: »

What "outdated" attitudes does 'Aliens' have?

Off the top of my head.....probably Vasquez getting a dig from Hudson about about 'when she heard alien, she though they said illegal alien' etc

Plus the mob probably aren't happy with a Goldstein portraying an apparently ethnic character.

na1

Joe Columbo wrote: »

It's a blatant promotion of colonialism by having the Humans as the good guys and the aliens as the bad guys even though it's happening outer space.The humans had no right to go into outer space we should ahve left the aliens to live their lives on peace.


James Cameron should be ashamed of himself.

The word 'alien' is abusive by itself.
They should be called 'non solar system Americans'!

fly_agaric

Joe Columbo wrote: »

It's a blatant promotion of colonialism by having the Humans as the good guys and the aliens as the bad guys even though it's happening outer space.The humans had no right to go into outer space we should ahve left the aliens to live their lives on peace.

James Cameron should be ashamed of himself.

Ha...funny you say that. Humanity or a section of it are a major antagonist in that (and other Alien films) looking to exploit/profit from dangerous creatures that should be left well alone.

He did make Avatar also...(much more explicit with painting humanity as the colonisers/"space invaders"/exploiters than Aliens/Alien).

Joe Columbo

Deleted User wrote: »

People who are offended by a single sentence, mocking people who are offended by outdated depictions. You couldn't make up the level of irony people are displaying here.

Except that nobody is offended by the disclaimer.


Criticising something is not the same as being offended by something.

Joe Columbo

Joe Columbo wrote: »

Except that nobody is offended by the disclaimer.


Criticising something is not the same as being offended by something.

Sure buddy, sure. It's 'criticism' not offense and outrage.

Criticism implies a certain level of intellectual rigour and nuance that no-one has displayed on this thread, but by all means people are welcome to continue in their self-delusion.

joe40

Deleted User wrote: »

People who are offended by a single sentence, mocking people who are offended by outdated depictions. You couldn't make up the level of irony people are displaying here.

Exactly, talk about outrage culture. None of those films have been banned what is the actual problem?

I admit I don't know what the issue with Aliens is but at the same time that statement will have no affect on my enjoyment of the movie.

joe40

fly_agaric wrote: »

Ha...funny you say that. Humanity or a section of it are a major antagonist in that (and other Alien films) looking to exploit/profit from dangerous creatures that should be left well alone.

He did make Avatar also...(much more explicit with painting humanity as the colonisers/"space invaders"/exploiters than Aliens/Alien).

Yeah Avatar was an allegory for environmental destruction. That was very clear, it was openly talked about by the director.

I didn't get the same idea from Alien but maybe you're right, just more subtle.

That though would have the opposite affect in terms of these "warnings"

Chris_Heilong

Tony EH wrote: »

You might as well just put that "message" on the front of everything that was made before 2015.

It was also on Aladdin that was made last year.


Come on, even those trying to defend this stuff have to admit it has gone too far.

Tony EH

joe40 wrote: »

Exactly, talk about outrage culture. None of those films have been banned what is the actual problem?

I admit I don't know what the issue with Aliens is but at the same time that statement will have no affect on my enjoyment of the movie.

It'll have no affect on most people's, I'm sure. But there is a level of talking down to folk going on here that will have a lot of them rolling their eyes...and quite rightly too.

Sure, all the pre-emptive hair pulling about "banning" 'Gone With the Wind' was a bit silly, but that still doesn't take away a serious shortcoming in the pearl clutching attitudes that some have with regards to entertainment media. While I don't envisage 'Gone With the Wind' getting banned any time soon, It also doesn't need an explanation, or a disclaimer, or a word of warning either. There isn't anyone watching that film thinking life was fine for black people in the south of the 1860's. So, the unnecessary worry about that comes across as ridiculous.

But more ridiculous is a corporation's "need" to talk down to their audience like they're a bunch of fools or to put out silly disclaimers to salve the (imagined) ire of any black people that might watch it which, frankly, comes across as glibness in its most egregious form.

But this whole debacle is absolutely absurd, especially when a film like 'Aliens', which has a female in the lead role, a black guy as the leader of a military operation and speaks against rampant corporatism, is in the firing line. To me, using that yardstick, everything is in the firing line, which makes the whole exercise utterly pointless.

joe40

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It was also on Aladdin that was made last year.


Come on, even those trying to defend this stuff have to admit it has gone too far.

Yeah that is going overboard. Unlike others I don't have a problem with the idea, but if implemented in a ham fisted way like this it will be counter productive.

"Gone with the wind" has been controversial for a long and I have no problem with its "statement" for want of a better world.

"black face" has a particularly racist and offensive history.

Over doing it like this will take away from legitimate instances.

Again though nothing has been cancelled. Might be silly but hardly the societal collapse that some are suggesting.

faceman

Joe Columbo wrote: »

It's none of your business what people want to watch, red or listen to, what part of this don't you understand.

Awww, did I upset you? That's not an argument either pal

na1 wrote: »

Me or my ancestors never ever discriminated or anyhow abused any black person.

I'm white, and now you are stating that ALL whites are oppressing blacks?

If this is not racist comment that what it is?

Dont see what your ancestors have to do with this. What is important is what you do, as you are the one alive today. Being neutral on issues like this is positioning racism as acceptable. "Nice white people can still be racist" as Robin DiAngelo said. The status quo is modern life is racism.

Tony EH wrote: »

Wait, what?

Racism has always existed among every culture. There isn't a single country on the planet that doesn't have issues with racism. Putting the entirety of racism on the heads of whites is not only wrongheaded, it's downright dangerous.

Racism wasn't "created by white people". It's been there, in every race, for as long as human beings have been around.

Have a think about what you just wrote and what you are accepting by saying it.

Tony EH wrote: »

What "outdated" attitudes does 'Aliens' have?

As much as Aliens is one of my favourite war movies, the character Vasquez is Latino but played by a white woman. They changed her skin colour with make up to make her look Latino. That wouldn't happen nowadays thankfully. One critic reviewed the previous film, Alien, by saying "Alien a movie where nobody listens to the smart woman, and they all die except for the smart woman and her cat. Four stars"

I knew Al Matthews, he played Apone in Aliens. We had many a beer together. He passed away sadly a few years ago. He had a lot to say about the topic of racism in culture.

Tony EH

faceman wrote: »

Have a think about what you just wrote and what you are accepting by saying it.

YOU have a think about what you wrote. Putting the entirety of racism on the heads of white is people is, frankly, stupid.

White people did not "create racism".

Overheal

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It was also on Aladdin that was made last year.


Come on, even those trying to defend this stuff have to admit it has gone too far.

I mean, yes, but also I am very reluctant to watch that movie knowing how cringe it will be.

Better example is Avatar called out for “white savior complex” - that’s getting really abstract.

Overheal

Tony EH wrote: »

YOU have a think about what you wrote. Putting the entirety of racism on the heads of white is people is, frankly, stupid.

White people did not "create racism".

No they just won at it

Tony EH

faceman wrote: »

the character Vasquez is Latino but played by a white woman.

It's called acting.

Tony EH

Overheal wrote: »

No they just won at it

Perhaps, but they didn't "create" it. A statement like that just displays an utterly woeful grasp of human history.

Overheal

Tony EH wrote: »

It's called acting.

It’s in relatively poor taste, especially knowing there’s a wide base of Latino actors who could fulfill the role.

Sort of like Ghost in the Shell with Scarlett Johansson. Now, I can defend this one a sliver, because the character is Asian but the Shell is American or can at least be anything the person wants in the fictional universe. That said, people broadly panned it and I can see why they were frustrated with it. The movie itself was nothing to write home about, it was okay but didn’t really do much to build on the world just a live action facsimile of the original work.

Salvation Tambourine

faceman wrote: »

Have a think about what you just wrote and what you are accepting by saying it.

Can you expand on that?

Overheal

Tony EH wrote: »

Perhaps, but they didn't "create" it. A statement like that just displays an utterly woeful grasp of human history.

I agree. It’s been around longer than record.

TomTomTim

faceman wrote: »

You’re off your rocker. And racist. Byeeeeeeeeee!

"I've been proven to be a stinking hypocrite who can't respond rationally because I'm wrong" would be a more apt reply.

faceman

Tony EH wrote: »

Perhaps, but they didn't "create" it. A statement like that just displays an utterly woeful grasp of human history.

I’m quite familiar with history. Racism while it has existed in different forms for thousands of years, is a modern concept where it became an organised trade in the 1400s when Europeans used Africans as slaves.

It is accepted that racism in the last 500 years by whites against non whites has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism

But none of this is relevant to this discussion

Tony EH

faceman wrote: »

I’m quite familiar with history. Racism while it has existed in different forms for thousands of years, is a modern concept where it became an organised trade in the 1400s when Europeans used Africans as slaves.

It is accepted that racism in the last 500 years by whites against non whites has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism

But none of this is relevant to this discussion

White people still didn't "create" it, however, and to suggest such a thing is simply wrong.

In addition, the ideas of race and differences in race, including the concept of superiority go back beyond the last 500 years.

fly_agaric

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah Avatar was an allegory for environmental destruction. That was very clear, it was openly talked about by the director.

I didn't get the same idea from Alien but maybe you're right, just more subtle.

Going very off topic, IMO thought there was a clear anti-capitalism/anti-exploitation message (not really environmentalism).

The giant company that appears to own & run everything of value in the world (the ships, the colonies, all the advanced technology) is setting up the conflicts between the humans and aliens in the films (I think?) for its own purposes.

It is using everyone [the ship crews, colonists, prisoners etc] as expendible pawns while they scramble get hold of these aliens/the dna etc. to make money off them/develop them as weapons etc.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it though and it is a long time since I watched Alien or Aliens.

na1

faceman wrote: »

Dont see what your ancestors have to do with this. What is important is what you do, as you are the one alive today. Being neutral on issues like this is positioning racism as acceptable. "Nice white people can still be racist" as Robin DiAngelo said. The status quo is modern life is racism.

What do you expect from white people to 'stop the racism'?
1)'taking a knee' and apologize?
2)don't arrest blacks if they are committing/suspects of committing a crime?
3)make 'blacks only' pubs/restaurants/cinemas?

What exactly?

faceman

na1 wrote: »

What do you expect from white people to 'stop the racism'?
1)'taking a knee' and apologize?
2)don't arrest blacks if they are committing/suspects of committing a crime?
3)make 'blacks only' pubs/restaurants/cinemas?

What exactly?

Where’s your manners? Is that really how you ask your question? I suggest you go educate yourself. It’s not up to me to tell you.

1800_Ladladlad

People are now destroying a Palestinian immigrant's business in Minneapolis because one of his many children tweeted vile things in 2012 when she was 14 before she was even employed at the shop. Now, the estate agent where the store was located is "exercising its right to terminate the lease". Several cost co stores have pulled their hummus product from their shelves. This is a big loss considering cost co being big stores. Im not condoning the anti-Semitic slurs, but this was a child, (who should have known better) BUT to go after the father and his business for something his daughter did at 14, before worked there, its pathetic



https://forward.com/news/national/448382/the-ceo-of-holy-land-hummus-i-know-doesnt-match-the-social-media-monster/

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

faceman wrote: »

Where’s your manners? Is that really how you ask your question? I suggest you go educate yourself. It’s not up to me to tell you.

You’ve been nothing short of a disgrace on this thread since you started posting. I’ve lost count of how many posters you’ve called “racist” and of course you’re let away with it while others are carded for arguing against you.

JeffKenna

The modding on this thread leaves a lot to be desired.

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

Land O’Lakes was responsible for the trail of tears?

The lake in question is on the Red Lake Ojibwe reservation. The artist (himself of that tribe) drew Mia as an Ojibwe woman in front of the lake, which is apparently specifically identifiable as that lake by the locals. (I don't see it myself, it seems fairly generic, but maybe an Objibwe would connect Mia and the backdrop).

Chris_Heilong

faceman wrote: »

I’m quite familiar with history. Racism while it has existed in different forms for thousands of years, is a modern concept where it became an organised trade in the 1400s when Europeans used Africans as slaves.

It is accepted that racism in the last 500 years by whites against non whites has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism

But none of this is relevant to this discussion

You do know it was Africans that set up the Slave trade dont you? a trade which still exists in Africa and the middles East. It is no excuse but the europeans where late to the game.

Ten of Swords

Hunky Monster once again you are attacking posters instead of their posts. Do not post in this thread again

faceman

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You’ve been nothing short of a disgrace on this thread since you started posting. I’ve lost count of how many posters you’ve called “racist” and of course you’re let away with it while others are carded for arguing against you.

Thank you, finally someone said it.

My behaviour on this thread has been less than savoury, and anyone familiar with my posting style will know its very uncharacteristic.

I did it on purpose to prove a point. I knew that people would think my position as a mod would be interpreted as receiving preferential treatment. While many things I said on the topic are true, I was said things that suited the agenda of what I was trying to say. Re-writing history if you will.

Therefore when I said offensive things to you and others, you felt it was unfair and you were being treated less favourably than me. I expect some of my posts were reported and maybe or maybe not action was taken. But to you and the others, I continued to post, unscathed. Its interested in a thread giving out about censorship that when someone comes along with an opposing view and reaction, that my posts were reported and, as you said, my behaviour disgusting,

All of this is an analogy for white privilege, equity, fairness and equality.

I'm bowing out from here, Ive made my point.

FWIW, I don't agree with the TV shows or movies being pulled. But I am listening to the reasons as to why to better educate myself on why it's an issue. Everyone should.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

faceman wrote: »

Thank you, finally someone said it.

My behaviour on this thread has been less than savoury, and anyone familiar with my posting style will know its very uncharacteristic.

I did it on purpose to prove a point. I knew that people would think my position as a mod would be interpreted as receiving preferential treatment. While many things I said on the topic are true, I was said things that suited the agenda of what I was trying to say. Re-writing history if you will.

Therefore when I said offensive things to you and others, you felt it was unfair and you were being treated less favourably than me. I expect some of my posts were reported and maybe or maybe not action was taken. But to you and the others, I continued to post, unscathed. Its interested in a thread giving out about censorship that when someone comes along with an opposing view and reaction, that my posts were reported and, as you said, my behaviour disgusting,

All of this is an analogy for white privilege, equity, fairness and equality.

I'm bowing out from here, Ive made my point.

FWIW, I don't agree with the TV shows or movies being pulled. But I am listening to the reasons as to why to better educate myself on why it's an issue. Everyone should.

So let me get this straight.

You were trolling.

Multiple cards were handed out for being “uncivil”, myself included, I got two. For being “uncivil”. Literally calling you out for calling everyone on here a racist.

So what action are mods going to take on this BLATENT AND ADMITTED trolling? Meanwhile I’ve two cards for nothing along with other posters.

Of course nothing will be done, you purposely trolled this whole thread and because you’re a mod you’ll be let off while the rest of us now have warnings and cards.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Hunky Monster once again you are attacking posters instead of their posts. Do not post in this thread again

Saw this after.

G’luck.

And great job mods.

JeffKenna

Wow

Overheal

So people would be upset if mods had Qualified Immunity? Hmm. Hmm.

Baggly

Mod

1) There is no point talking to people who have been threadbanned. In fact its unfair to do so because they have no ability to respond.

2) Faceman has received a red card and is also thread banned.

3) If someone is trolling and you attack them, you have attacked a poster. DO NOT ATTACK OTHER POSTERS - ATTACK THEIR POSTS. If you have a problem with another poster, report the posts.

4) Get back on topic.

Ten of Swords

Hunky Monster, your card was for attacking the poster (accusation of racism). The mod in question also got a red card for doing the same thing - post 372

Joe Columbo

Overheal wrote: »

So people would be upset if mods had Qualified Immunity? Hmm. Hmm.

And what has that got to do with anything?


This thread is about censorship it has got nothing to do with qualified immunity.

JeffKenna

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Hunky Monster, your card was for attacking the poster (accusation of racism). The mod in question also got a red card for doing the same thing - post 372

But the mod in question only got a red card retrospectly after they admitted to personally abusing people and saying they were leaving the thread. So it didn't really matter at that stage.

Baggly

JeffKenna wrote: »

But the mod in question only got a red card retrospectly after they admitted to personally abusing people and saying they were leaving the thread. So it didn't really matter at that stage.

Mod actions arent up for discussion on this thread. Take it to PM with us.

I wont say again to get back on topic.

Overheal

Joe Columbo wrote: »

And what has that got to do with anything?


This thread is about censorship it has got nothing to do with qualified immunity.

Suppose it was more relevant to the tangent it was on than the whole. Apologies, will be back on topic.

Cream of Wheat was another brand I don’t think had been mentioned ITT. They are removing depictions from their brand. This isn’t a recent brand photo but informs the origins of it, to house help.

Quantum Erasure

The singing of 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot' by english rugby fans is under review by the RFU, for cultural appropriation reasons, or because it was originally sung by a former slave,
Former England hooker Brian Moore may have landed himself in hot water after saying “It can go for me; I hate it,”

2u2me

kowloon wrote: »

I wish people were this upset about restriction of freedom of speech every time the US tightens the noose on the internet.

If only. The lockdown has proved just how tight this noose can go.

Now the cultural revolution is looking to squeeze until no air can get through.

“We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.”

John Perry Barlow

joe40

2u2me wrote: »

If only. The lockdown has proved just how tight this noose can go.

Now the cultural revolution is looking to squeeze until no air can get through.


John Perry Barlow

Are you objecting to the lockdown restrictions. They were for public health reasons.

2u2me

joe40 wrote: »

Are you objecting to the lockdown restrictions. They were for public health reasons.

I'm objecting to how much censorship happened on the internet during that time.