Leo says the Civil Service is 'very white'

FVP3

TheCitizen wrote: »

The Stormfrontisation of Boards.ie continues unabashed

Some people are opposed to immigration here, which is in itself a valid position although not mine, but it has nothing in common with say imperialism etc,

Others are more opposed to the idea of quotas. Which are, by definition, discriminatory. It's not hard to see why people likely to be discriminated, or their children discriminated against, would oppose these laws and rules. Of course the "white" elite will still have their privileges. If we wanted a law against privilege in Ireland most of RTE would be out on their ear, and not for being white but for being nepostic inbreds.

I personally think that we should look to America in all things, and do the opposite. Affirmative actions programs there were designed to right past wrongs, we have a different history.

cloudatlas

da_miser wrote: »

Back in my youth, Phil Lynott was not black , he was Irish.
Paul McGrath was not black, he was Irish and the best defender in the world.
So what has changed, i know its a outside force pushing this racism on Ireland, but the question is why?

Weird argument both experienced racism. Was it because they were Irish? No it was because they were black... Paul Mcgrath even gave interviews about racism in sport.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

That's not what this thread was started about, a debate about that needs to be had and needs to be accurate and measured.

On here though we get scaremongering and lies that Irish people will lose out etc. if we get a proportionate representation of people from different backgrounds in our civil and public services. The usual suspects taking advantage of the opportunity to unleash their bile. It's like Stormfront on these pages these days, wall to wall racist scum.

How tolerant you are. :rolleyes: God forbid, that you actually consider what the more reasonable posters are saying, rather than focusing on those with the more extreme views.

It's interesting though. I can't recall you ever actually engaging in a reasonable discussion. Instead, it's posts like the above. Swoop in, throw down accusations/judgments/insults, and pass away into the sunset.

TomTomTim

Is TheCitizen promoting Stormfront? I've seen him mention the site about 4 times in the last few days.

cloudatlas

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So Gay marriage, free abortions for all, Dublin has become a haven for cyclists, dole Christmas bonus and now anti white racist quotas.

no tax cuts, no welfare cheat finders, no usc cuts.

I don't want to hear one more person suggest that Leo is even 1 degree to the right of centre, he's turned FG into labour with some pbp flavours in there.

Ireland never colonised anybody, we have nothing to apologise or make up for. Ireland for the Irish, who in the vast majority of cases are pasty white and happy about it.

They came from the swamp Dun Dun Dun... now in cinemas 'Attack of the unemployed gay female cyclists who like multiculturalism'.

Geuze

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So Gay marriage, free abortions for all, Dublin has become a haven for cyclists, dole Christmas bonus and now anti white racist quotas.

no tax cuts, no welfare cheat finders, no usc cuts.

I don't want to hear one more person suggest that Leo is even 1 degree to the right of centre, he's turned FG into labour with some pbp flavours in there.

I wonder is it just here than traditionally centre-right parties have moved left?

There seems to be an attack on nation-states?

There also seems to be an attack on nuclear families?

I see that BLM want to reduce the importance of families:

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."


I note there is no mention of fathers.

FVP3

FVP3 wrote: »

Some people are opposed to immigration here, which is in itself a valid position although not mine, but it has nothing in common with say imperialism etc,

I think the issue is with unrestrained immigration. There's no plan to it all. No research being funded to determine the effects of migration, or how to integrate people. It's all so haphazard... a throwback to the "it'll all be grand" kind of thing.

Most of the posts I've seen haven't complained about normal migration. Those skilled/educated people who enter the country, work, and pay taxes. The vast majority of posts I've seen are about those who bypass the normal migration process. The economic refugees and the asylum seekers. It's easy to pick up a negative impression of that kind of migration because it's been so badly organised with no clear plan for the future.

I personally think that we should look to America in all things, and do the opposite. Affirmative actions programs there were designed to right past wrongs, we have a different history.

Agreed, and I'd include the UK in that. Both nations have completely messed themselves up with regards to multiculturalism... and we should also be paying attention to how Germany/France develop over the next few years. They're probably better examples of how Ireland could change since the nationalities arriving are similar to those coming into Ireland.

Ninthlife

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Why should we when we know nothing will be done?


You're like those apologists for FF who used to say if anyone had any evidence of corruption why didn't they report it to the Gardaí.
Or the ones before that who said if anyone had any actual evidence of abuse by servants of the Church why didn't they report it.


In all cases it was universally understood that a corrupt system has zero interest in reforming itself, and those who profit pile onto anyone who calls out corruption.

Nope, not an apologist. I can fully understand the reason people in the Gardai and those involved in the abuse by the church didnt speak out at the time.

Rikand

Ah yes, now I remember why we voted away from fine gael

DelaneyIn

Stands to reason that if our country is in North Western Europe, has no substantial colonial links with Africa and as a result 90% of the country is white then it’s entirely possible the employees of government bodies just might reflect that.

Hire and promote on merit whether the better candidate be white, black, Asian, gay or whatever. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. Not looking at someones merit and instead looking at their colour is by definition racist. Leave this American identity politics out of it.

This will not go down well with half the country unemployed. FG would want to reel him in a bit if they've hopes of gaining seats in a reelection. Tell him that the loud folks on twitter are only a tiny percentage of the electorate.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

How tolerant you are. :rolleyes: God forbid, that you actually consider what the more reasonable posters are saying, rather than focusing on those with the more extreme views.

It's interesting though. I can't recall you ever actually engaging in a reasonable discussion. Instead, it's posts like the above. Swoop in, throw down accusations/judgments/insults, and pass away into the sunset.

I haven't read the whole thread and yes there are posters with more reasonable views but the first 4 pages or so was a diatribe of opposition to what was a fairly mild conciliatory and very much aspirational comment by Leo Varadker. There is a lot of racist sentiment on these pages and it appears to be in the majority.

TheCitizen

Rikand wrote: »

Ah yes, now I remember why we voted away from fine gael

I didn't vote FG but my reasons were to do with health service and issues like housing. Why did you not vote FG?

Jimmy Garlic

Another spectacular own goal by Varadkar here. Putting the spotlight on the hiring procedures of the civil service won’t win him any fans in the civil service, the knives will be out, you need to watch your back now Leo.Tripped over himself again in a mad rush to pander to far left cultural Marxist wackos that don’t vote for him or his party anyway. Inadvertently he has done the country a service as people start thinking about the real reasons why the civil service is the way it is.

TomTomTim

TheCitizen wrote: »

There is a lot of racist sentiment on these pages and it appears to be in the majority.

If that's the case you'll be able to quote some of those racist posts for us seeing as there is many according to you.

Cal4567

kildare lad wrote: »

The Far left are doing a great job at putting the Right in power all across the world . They're so out of touch with normal people on the ground all they're doing is alienating people like me with there nonsense politics and bending over backwards to appease people who contribute little to nothing to society . You can thank the Left for another 4 years of trump when he gets re elected this year .

It's a valid point and it has been brewing for the last 3 decades. We are only seeing it now in Ireland. As another poster here has said, it is a mob, not the majority.

I think after the Referendums, Varadkar believes we have gone so totally liberal whereas gays, abortion and multiculturalism should be seen and viewed as 3 very separate issues.

Look at the UK and the split in the Left over identity politics. It spawned Brexit in the end.

There is a problem. The actions of certain police officers in the US. Quite amazing the debate on all this over the last 2/3 weeks and how the story has developed. Really feel the media had covid fatigue and needed another issue with which to concentrate.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread and yes there are posters with more reasonable views but the first 4 pages or so was a diatribe of opposition to what was a fairly mild conciliatory and very much aspirational comment by Leo Varadker. There is a lot of racist sentiment on these pages and it appears to be in the majority.

"Racist sentiment".... which I suspect translates into differing opinions to yours. If you feel a post is racist, report it. The Boards mods are pretty good at shutting down actual racism...

As I said before, your idea of what constitutes racism is far different than mine...

TheCitizen

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Stands to reason that if our country is in North Western Europe, has no substantial colonial links with Africa and as a result 90% of the country is white then it’s entirely possible the employees of government bodies just might reflect that.

Hire and promote on merit whether the better candidate be white, black, Asian, gay or whatever. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. Not looking at someones merit and instead looking at their colour is by definition racist. Leave this American identity politics out of it.

This will not go down well with half the country unemployed. FG would want to reel him in a bit if they've hopes of gaining seats in a reelection. Tell him that the loud folks on twitter are only a tiny percentage of the electorate.

Varadker did not say anything different to what you said in bold there.

https://www.thejournal.ie/recruitment-targets-civil-service-leo-varadkar-5120369-Jun2020/

I'm not a supporter of Varadker or FG but amazingly so many posters on this thread keep misrepresenting what he actually said. Read what he actually said in the linked article above.

He actually said- “a modern civil service should mirror our modern society. This is not about quotas. It is about trying to ensure that the make-up of our politics, civil service, Defence Forces and gardaí reflect and resemble the modern Ireland, the Republic, all around us”. That's very conciliatory aspirational stuff with no mention of positive discrimination.

Geuze

FVP3 wrote: »

Some people are opposed to immigration here, which is in itself a valid position although not mine, but it has nothing in common with say imperialism etc,

EU immigration = welcome

Non-EU immigration = restricted to jobs that we can't fill ourselves, only after extensive efforts to help Irish inactive adults to rejoin the labour force

Bogus asylum-seekers = not welcome, should be processed and deported within 7 days max

Geuze

kildare lad wrote: »

The Far left are doing a great job at putting the Right in power all across the world . They're so out of touch with normal people on the ground all they're doing is alienating people like me with there nonsense politics and bending over backwards to appease people who contribute little to nothing to society . You can thank the Left for another 4 years of trump when he gets re elected this year .

I see your point, but that's not really happening here?

People are voting SF and Green and PBP.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

I'm not a supporter of Varadker or FG but amazingly so many posters on this thread keep misrepresenting what he actually said. Read what he actually said in the linked article above.

They're going by the article and the parts quoted earlier

"The civil service “is very white”, he added, stating “that actually needs to change”.

Dedicated recruitment campaigns are needed to ensure the workforce is more inclusive, Varadkar told the Dáil."

Not misrepresenting anything at all.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

"Racist sentiment".... which I suspect translates into differing opinions to yours. If you feel a post is racist, report it. The Boards mods are pretty good at shutting down actual racism...

As I said before, you're idea of what constitutes racism is far different than mine...

Loads of posters came on and said stuff like " they'll be no jobs for Irish people", "Irish may not apply", "discrimination against white people" etc etc. The comments by the Taoiseach were not about quotas or positive discrimination, it was very mild conciliatory aspirational stuff and yet it was met with the sort of commentary and opposition I referred to above. That ott response was racist sentiment.

Rodin

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I really hope they don't start bringing in quotas. For sex or for race.
It's very unfair.

If quotas based on sex are brought in to the public service, it should be to get more men in.
Heavily oversubscribed in favour of women.

kildare lad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the issue is with unrestrained immigration. There's no plan to it all. No research being funded to determine the effects of migration, or how to integrate people. It's all so haphazard... a throwback to the "it'll all be grand" kind of thing.

That's the bottom line, I've no problem with immigration as long as they get the right people.i currently work with 2 eastern Europeans good people , pay tax etc. But we can't just open the flood gates just because a few people in power might feel good about themselves. Imo immigrants shouldn't cost the taxpayers they should be beneficial , if they're not they shouldn't be here . Australia has a good model for immigration.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

They're going by the article and the parts quoted earlier

"The civil service “is very white”, he added, stating “that actually needs to change”.

Dedicated recruitment campaigns are needed to ensure the workforce is more inclusive, Varadkar told the Dáil."

Not misrepresenting anything at all.

Yes, he's saying the civil service and public service should reflect society. I think it should, that's if you want a cohesive society where those living in are included and are stakeholders in our society.

fin12

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Plenty of Irish people went overseas and had children with non-white people. Some of those children have chosen to come here, as their citizenship entitles them to.

It didn't take the Irish overseas several decades / generations to get into public service jobs. They knew full well that these jobs were the best way to raise their social status, so worked on getting them as quickly as possible. Equally, at home the requirement for Irish language to get in to the public service (now removed in many jobs) or to progress (still present in some) has been used to keep foreigners out.

Teaching is a particular issue: there is a cohort of non-white children who were born here, who go through the education system with no role models who look like them, or understand their cultural background. The Irish-language requirement means that qualified teachers from other countries who move here cannot even be considered for jobs.

There is no Irish language requirement to get into the civil service unless you are going for a specific Irish speaking related role and I say this as someone who has been newly recruited in the civil service.

No Irish language requirement for secondary teaching unless obviously u are an Irish teacher.

Primary different but it should be a requirement as the Irish language is our heritage and should be protected. I did a after school homework club in a provision centre and plenty of the kids did Irish and really enjoyed it. This kids have a choice not to do Irish but I found a lot of kids choose to learn Irish and their parents want them to aswell. It’s a sign they want them to integrate into the society of their new country.

kildare lad

Geuze wrote: »

I see your point, but that's not really happening here?

People are voting SF and Green and PBP.

I'm moreso talking around the world , the rise of the right in Europe , we don't have a right wing party here. Most people I know that voted for SF done so because they're sick and tired of FG/FF. my father even voted for SF and he hated them and the IRA during the troubles .

biko

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes, he's saying the civil service and public service should reflect society. I think it should, that's if you want a cohesive society where those living in are included and are stakeholders in our society.

It will happen naturally.

If you try to force it with positive discrimination "we must have 1 black, 1 Chinese, 2 Polish and 6 whites at this department to reflect society" then you're just going to alienate people.

kildare lad

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Another spectacular own goal by Varadkar here. Putting the spotlight on the hiring procedures of the civil service won’t win him any fans in the civil service, the knives will be out, you need to watch your back now Leo.Tripped over himself again in a mad rush to pander to far left cultural Marxist wackos that don’t vote for him or his party anyway. Inadvertently he has done the country a service as people start thinking about the real reasons why the civil service is the way it is.

Politicians are tying themselves in knots to appear woke

DelaneyIn

TheCitizen wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread and yes there are posters with more reasonable views but the first 4 pages or so was a diatribe of opposition to what was a fairly mild conciliatory and very much aspirational comment by Leo Varadker. There is a lot of racist sentiment on these pages and it appears to be in the majority.

It’s not racist for the natives to oppose newcomers being given jobs simply because they’re non native.

You would not accept this if the roles were reversed. Foreigners are over represented in the hospitality trade. If the president of the IHI said we need to give preference to native Irish, you’d scream racism.

Why the double standards?

Rodin

DelaneyIn wrote: »

It’s not racist for the natives to oppose newcomers being given jobs simply because they’re non native.

You would not accept this if the roles were reversed. Foreigners are over represented in the hospitality trade. If the president of the IHI said we need to give preference to native Irish, you’d scream racism.

Why the double standards?

Those hotel jobs are of course open to Irish who clearly don't want them.

There simply needs to be no exclusion for a job. No matter what skin colour or sex the person is, the best person for the job should be selected.

Should Irish people decide not to apply for hotel/fruit picking jobs then of course it will be over-represented by foreigners.