Leo says the Civil Service is 'very white'

punisher5112

WastedYouth wrote: »

What happened on Liveline?

Basically it's been turned into a BLM all out war and Irish are racists etc....

TheCitizen

tobefrank321 wrote: »

My problem with Leo is he's had 3 years to do something about this issue as Taoiseach.

He's had 9 years in government to do something about it.

And he only mentions it now when it becomes the major international issue of our time and even then only pays lip service to it.

Bring in the heads of the civil service and ask them to do something about it, instead of making some big PR show and then doing nothing.

Unless of course he has actually no intention of doing anything about it.

You make a good point. He has only made a very mild conciliatory type statement that doesn’t even promise to actually implement anything like a quota or something along those lines and yet it has been met with huge oft opposition on here. Leo likes to talk a lot and make grand statements, he doesn’t get much done though and that’s why they lost the election

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

I would. It's a continuation of the push for multiculturalism, even though multiculturalism has consistently created severe social problems in every country it has been implemented in. Not in the short term, but definitely in the medium to long term.

It's a stupid thing to push, and only encourages division, because he's giving approval to minority activists to complain about racism, discrimination, etc regardless of the practical realities.

I was speaking on the 'very white' line.
The move is just looking for 'likes' on his Facebook.
There was and is inequality and discrimination in Ireland long before race was an issue. Sidestepping that to be oh so liberal is typical of Varadkar's empty platitudes.

Sarcozies

Wibbs wrote: »

Well you've hit the nail on the head there. "Diversity" only seems to apply to White people and nations. Your "progressives" see a White majority nation and culture and insist it needs "diversity". The right kind of course, IE more non Whites. A few thousand Italians/Spaniards/Germans won't cut it. East Asian folks don't really cut it so much either.

Now if one were to suggest after an hour walking around say Kampala that what this place needs is a load more White folks, there would be ructions, much gnashing of teeth and noises about colonialism and cultural appropriation and the like, but oul Whitey needs more dark faces to be "correct".

It's utter bollocks and as so called "multicultural" nations have shown causes all sorts of extra divisions and social problems, not least for the non native population and for generations with it. Show me any multicultural nation where social progress and social issues aren't drawn along racial lines. Good luck with that.

Ireland has until very recently been a largely monocultural country, certainly along "race" lines, yet even in that brief snapshot of time since the late 90's where that changed and not by much either, we're already seeing the seeds of the crap of every single other European nation that has run this idiotic social experiment has had to deal with and continues to deal with.

Modern multiculturalism doesn't work. Can multiculturalism work? Rarely, but it has to a large degree a few times in history, the Roman Empire, the Islamic empire, the Chinese empire to some degree. And that's the irony; it only seems to work in cultures that are more hardline and rigid, even "right wing" in outlook, and most of all cock sure of themselves as a culture. It most certainly doesn't work in cultures without a clear self confidence and a lack of self loathing.

So you're saying we can expect the Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire to be joined shortly by Leo and the boys as the case studies to be learned for centuries to come as to how to do multiculturalism?

We're the strangest bunch. We constantly moan about how inept our government is and always was and yet we expect them to take on a task that only a handful, maybe none ever, have accomplished? Ha.

Mr. Karate

punisher5112 wrote: »

Basically it's been turned into a BLM all out war and Irish are racists etc....

That's RTE in general now. Its been that way for a while. They just weren't as obvious about it. And then they wonder why the Irish don't want to pay the license fee.

Wibbs

Sarcozies wrote: »

So you're saying we can expect the Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire to be joined shortly by Leo and the boys as the case studies to be learned for centuries to come as to how to do multiculturalism?

No, I'm not saying that. Quite the opposite. Ireland will go the same stupid way of every other European nation that has tried to run this idiotic "multicultural" social experiment.

We're the strangest bunch. We constantly moan about how inept our government is and always was and yet we expect them to take on a task that only a handful, maybe none ever, have accomplished? Ha.

Indeed, and they almost certainly won't succeed, but the talking heads and bleeding hearts will keep getting paid to tell us all how "racist" we all are. Most of whom won't live next nor near areas of "cultural diversity" and their inherent problems. The closest they'll get is a photo op for whatever NGO is in need of one to swell their taxpayer coffers.

cnocbui

Nothing a little mandatory brown makeup couldn't fix. The first week of every month, everyone in the PS with a Surname starting with A-F could brown up, the second week, G-L; and so on. That way 25% of the PS would be non white.

WastedYouth

punisher5112 wrote: »

Basically it's been turned into a BLM all out war and Irish are racists etc....

Doesn't Liveline always do that?

People complain about a holiday so all travel agents are bad, someone gets their bike stolen so all scumbags are bad, etc.

Don't understand how the topic could make someone feel like an outcast

Sarcozies

Well, I believe we have made our bed and now we are required to lay in it.

When you introduce quotas for government, which we already have based on genitalia requirements, the floodgates are open. Quotas for private sectors are a cake walk compared to convincing your democracy that they aren't voting properly and need a hand.

yenom

There are three exams to get into the civil service. The exams are corrected by a computer. Either you pass them or you don't. The computer doesn't know what you look like.

tobefrank321

Mr. Karate wrote: »

That's RTE in general now. Its been that way for a while. They just weren't as obvious about it. And then they wonder why the Irish don't want to pay the license fee.

The irony being that much like Irish politics, RTE is almost exclusively white middle class, with little or no diversity.

Strong on finger pointing though. And don't expect a Prime Time Special on diversity in RTE anytime soon.

JPCN1

You have to hand it to Leo, he's some man for the old bandwagon.

suicide_circus

This was nothing more than a cynical cack-handed attempt by Leo to use the current racial sh1tshow in the US to boost his woke credentials.

Well Leo, you thundering arsehole, in case you hadn't notice we have enough REAL problems in this country without artificially manufacturing them for the benefit of your profile.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

yenom wrote: »

There are three exams to get into the civil service. The exams are corrected by a computer. Either you pass them or you don't. The computer doesn't know what you look like.

Exams? I’ve been through the process 15 times and there was never an exam. There is a box to tick for being black however.

yenom

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Exams? I’ve been through the process 15 times and there was never an exam. There is a box to tick for being black however.

There's three online and then supervised exams. An English exam, a Maths exam and a spot the difference exam. The option to give your race and gender is optional.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

yenom wrote: »

There's three online and then supervised exams. An English exam, a Maths exam and a spot the difference exam. The option to give your race and gender is optional.

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

yenom

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

It's been a while since I done the exam but perhaps the exams only come in if you pass stage one?

conorhal

Sarcozies wrote: »

So you're saying we can expect the Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire to be joined shortly by Leo and the boys as the case studies to be learned for centuries to come as to how to do multiculturalism?

We're the strangest bunch. We constantly moan about how inept our government is and always was and yet we expect them to take on a task that only a handful, maybe none ever, have accomplished? Ha.

The real question to ask is HOW did those empires ( Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire) successfully manage multuculturalism?

The answer is massive degrees of brutal authoritarianism, and we're seeing it now in the ever tightening grip European governments are excercising on speach.

With rioters tearing down statues and looting.. who are the police arresting?
Teenagers making fun of of a violent thug drug addict on Snapchat.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-teens-who-mocked-george-22122018

If you're an authoritarian regime, control of the narrative is very important.

Wibbs

conorhal wrote: »

The real question to ask is HOW did those empires ( Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire) successfully manage multuculturalism?

The answer is massive degrees of brutal authoritarianism, and we're seeing it now in the ever tightening grip European governments are excercising on speach.

Brutal authoritarianism alright, but quite differently to how modern multiculturalism is played out. Those empires were cocksure of themselves and made damned sure that any minorities were only welcome if they kow towed to the majority culture. Anything too "un Roman/Islamic/Chinese" was mercilessly slapped down. "When in Rome" etc.

Ninthlife

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

Those forms are for statistical purposes and are not connected to your application.

Tea drinker

Ninthlife wrote: »

Those forms are for statistical purposes and are not connected to your application.

I thought this was a joke :-(
Surely this is something private which should not be shared or open to any abuse, fully transparent process?

Ninthlife

Tea drinker wrote: »

I thought this was a joke :-(
Surely this is something private which should not be shared or open to any abuse, fully transparent process?

Whats a joke?

An anonymous form asking for gender, race etc is used to answer numerous questions either through FOI or PQs

It ia asked many times how many people of <insert demographic here> has applied for whichever post it may be i.e Gardai, Executive Officer, Clerical Officer

Sarcozies

Sarcozies wrote: »

So you're saying we can expect the Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire to be joined shortly by Leo and the boys as the case studies to be learned for centuries to come as to how to do multiculturalism?

Dunno, I find them to be rather strange examples since with the exception of Islam, the other two were very intolerant of non-native cultures which didn't integrate. All three Empire enjoyed showing their cultural and moral superiority to inferior peoples, but China definitely didn't want them mingling within their actual borders... except to deliver tribute. Islamic empires were slightly more tolerant, but the idea of them being tolerant should be used lightly... still, if you paid, you received some limited rights.

We're the strangest bunch. We constantly moan about how inept our government is and always was and yet we expect them to take on a task that only a handful, maybe none ever, have accomplished? Ha.

We're forever hoping that they'll learn from the mistakes of other nations, and not simply follow in their footsteps. Yes, we're the strangest bunch because we want a government that puts the interests of the native population ahead of foreign organisations or peoples. This virtue signalling rubbish that says foreigners must be treated better than the native population shouldn't even be considered racist, and yet, that's where we've ended up...

Basically, a government that learned from the heaps of mistakes made by other nations, and sought different ways to resolve those problems. Some long term thinking would also be nice.

jmayo

tobefrank321 wrote: »

My problem with Leo is he's had 3 years to do something about this issue as Taoiseach.

He's had 9 years in government to do something about it.

And he only mentions it now when it becomes the major international issue of our time and even then only pays lip service to it.

Bring in the heads of the civil service and ask them to do something about it, instead of making some big PR show and then doing nothing.

Unless of course he has actually no intention of doing anything about it.

What issue ?
Why do we need to do something about something that is not a problem?

The civil service is probably representative of the population or do you think that Adeola that stepped off a plane from Nigeria (oh wait there are no direct flights from Nigeria - I keep forgetting) a few years back should have a job in civil service or that Selassia from Eritrea or Hamza from Pakistan should have walked into jobs in civil service ?

The one area where we do need some people of different backgrounds is the AGS in order to police those communities.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

According to some around here you should be guaranteed a job if you were a black gay traveller.

I bet the venn diagram between the last one and preceding two shows a big fat zero.

SouthWesterly

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

the first big influx of immigrants only arrived 20 years ago

their kids are only in college now

how would they be working in the civil service at this stage?

Let's not state the obvious... You'll be labeled as something

Tea drinker

conorhal wrote: »

The real question to ask is HOW did those empires ( Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire) successfully manage multuculturalism?

The answer is massive degrees of brutal authoritarianism, and we're seeing it now in the ever tightening grip European governments are excercising on speach.

With rioters tearing down statues and looting.. who are the police arresting?
Teenagers making fun of of a violent thug drug addict on Snapchat.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-teens-who-mocked-george-22122018

If you're an authoritarian regime, control of the narrative is very important.

Look how the Arab world "manages" itself for a glimpse of the future. Diversity is their strength
Yugoslavia had work camps, same in Sovijet Russija. Syria is an eclectic melting pot we are helping to liberate thru death, Libya had Gaddaffi before descending into slavery courtesy of our good selves. Khmer Rouge helped get the population numbers waaay down.
The hyserical left are not far from Khmer rouge for me.

SouthWesterly

CrankyHaus wrote: »

If you say so. I don't have significant experience of the Civil Service. But I have plenty with semi-states, Councils and other parts of the public sector; and they're highly nepotistic.



That includes organisations that nominally hire through the Public Appointments Service and I've found that any reputation for independent merit-based selection is a myth.


Without further evidence I see no reason to believe that the Civil Service is some shining beacon of best-practice in that grubby sea of nepotism.

So you've no experience with the CS but can comment with some sense of authority.


The process is:
You register your interest in a job and complete an application form which is submitted online. At a point in time everyone who applied completes an online aptitude test and if they pass, they get placed based on score.

They will then do a supervised test (same one) and if they passed they are further placed. large diversity in the 2 scores are deemed cheating as the first one is unsupervised. There are cameras in the testing room.

An interview process is then completed based on your application form.
Depending on the grade, there are other online supervised exams.

If you pass the interview, you are placed for appointment to a department.
Anyone with an Irish or EU citizenship can apply.
Where is the nepotism?

Strumms

Wibbs wrote: »

Well you've hit the nail on the head there. "Diversity" only seems to apply to White people and nations. Your "progressives" see a White majority nation and culture and insist it needs "diversity". The right kind of course, IE more non Whites. A few thousand Italians/Spaniards/Germans won't cut it. East Asian folks don't really cut it so much either.

Now if one were to suggest after an hour walking around say Kampala that what this place needs is a load more White folks, there would be ructions, much gnashing of teeth and noises about colonialism and cultural appropriation and the like, but oul Whitey needs more dark faces to be "correct".

It's utter bollocks and as so called "multicultural" nations have shown causes all sorts of extra divisions and social problems, not least for the non native population and for generations with it. Show me any multicultural nation where social progress and social issues aren't drawn along racial lines. Good luck with that.

Multicultural and diversity are terms that I’ve no time for, what I do have time for... fairness.

If I’m hiring 6 bus drivers tomorrow and I have 4 African applicants, 4 members of the traveling community applying, 4 Irish females applying, 4 Irish males and 4 mixed LGBT people applying... I don’t care, I’m STILL hiring who I believe are the 6 best most suitable candidates...

My first priority is to the customers, my second to the staff.... I care not one fùck about anybody waving flags, waving an agenda, looking for xyz criteria to be met.. you have the expertise, qualifications, experience, attitude and aptitude to do the job, you’ll get hired, I don’t care about your background, your troubles, your struggles, any of it....

Equal opportunity is that, equal for everyone...I owe myself, my colleagues, staff and customers to hire the best... that’s what I’ll endeavor to do.

CrankyHaus

SouthWesterly wrote: »

So you've no experience with the CS but can comment with some sense of authority.


The process is:
You register your interest in a job and complete an application form which is submitted online. At a point in time everyone who applied completes an online aptitude test and if they pass, they get placed based on score.

They will then do a supervised test (same one) and if they passed they are further placed. large diversity in the 2 scores are deemed cheating as the first one is unsupervised. There are cameras in the testing room.

An interview process is then completed based on your application form.
Depending on the grade, there are other online supervised exams.

If you pass the interview, you are placed for appointment to a department.
Anyone with an Irish or EU citizenship can apply.
Where is the nepotism?

Interview, obviously.

If you want to pretend "who you know" doesn't often influence who gets the job in Ireland, both in the public and private sector, fire ahead.

It's an uncontroversial opinion in normal conversation, not least because we all know many people who had to work their connections to get their jobs, but for some reason people online feel the need to argue that up is down and black is white.

kildare lad

Strumms wrote: »

Multicultural and diversity are terms that I’ve no time for, what I do have time for... fairness.

If I’m hiring 6 bus drivers tomorrow and I have 4 African applicants, 4 members of the traveling community applying, 4 Irish females applying, 4 Irish males and 4 mixed LGBT people applying... I don’t care, I’m STILL hiring who I believe are the 6 best most suitable candidates...

My first priority is to the customers, my second to the staff.... I care not one fùck about anybody waving flags, waving an agenda, looking for xyz criteria to be met.. you have the expertise, qualifications, experience, attitude and aptitude to do the job, you’ll get hired, I don’t care about your background, your troubles, your struggles, any of it....

Equal opportunity is that, equal for everyone...I owe myself, my colleagues, staff and customers to hire the best... that’s what I’ll endeavor to do.

You'd better make sure you hire one of each , cos if you don't they'll be in the Irish times next week moaning how racist , sexist , homophobic your company is