Leo says the Civil Service is 'very white'

Geuze

TheCitizen wrote: »

What’s JSA?

Clamp down on carers allowance and disability? People either qualify for that or they don’t.

Career single mothers? ‘Mon the 80’s.

The most disabled workforce in Europe? Again another sweeping statement with no foundation. Before Covid we were near full employment in this country. Doesn’t add up with your rhetoric.

JSA is Jobseeker's Allowance, nicknamed the dole in Ireland and UK.

The numbers on DA have been consistently rising, I often wonder why.

We lead Europe with the number of lone parents.

We lead Europe for disability among working-age adults living alone.

See here:

https://www.esri.ie/sites/default/files/media/file-uploads/2020-01/Slides_1.pdf

Geuze

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Social welfare was created to help workers who fell out of work as a safety net so they wouldn’t fall through the cracks.

It’s now become a fishing net. We regularly read newspaper articles about people here who have never made a PRSI contribution in their time here, yet live on welfare.

It’s wrong and needs to stop.

Yes, we need more social insurance, less social assistance.

Improve JSB, reduce/abolish JSA.

Improve State Pension Contributory, do not increase the non-con SP.

Always prioritise the worker.

Eric Cartman

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, we need more social insurance, less social assistance.

Improve JSB, reduce/abolish JSA.

Improve State Pension Contributory, do not increase the non-con SP.

Always prioritise the worker.

we forgot the worker and middle class in politics years ago.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

TheCitizen wrote: »

Career single mothers? ‘Mon the 80’s.

I won't go into any of the other schemes, but I have to say that the One Parent Family Payment is being abused left, right and centre. A serious amount of fraud going on there.

KrustyUCC

New Government to set targets for ethnic minorities employed in public service

The next government has committed to setting targets for the number of people from ethnic minority backgrounds employed in the public and civil service.

The parties involved in government formation talks have signed off on the pledge in the midst of worldwide protests over racism.

Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party agreed on a Programme of Government that commits to introducing “targets to increase the proportion of public and civil servants from ethnic minority backgrounds”.

https://m.independent.ie/incoming/new-government-to-set-targets-for-ethnic-minorities-employed-in-public-service-39285140.html

Chris_Heilong

Deleted User wrote: »

I understand, but it's worth noting that there would continue to be immigration even if we limited it severely. I've traveled and worked in many countries who have harsher immigration policies than Ireland, and you'll still find large amounts of migrants settled. I've lived the last decade in Xi'an, (China), and there's a sizable muslim community who aren't natives of Xinjiang or China itself, but immigrated there within the last twenty years... and China has rather strong/strict migrant policies.(you can also find larger groups of Indians, Africans, other asians, etc along with the thousands of westerners on shorter visas)

As for wanting cheap/poor workers, I've heard it said but it only really applies to countries like Germany who still have a manufacturing industry. Ireland doesn't, and doesn't even have much of an agricultural industry. Businesses want skilled staff, and the low end jobs can still be taken up by students (domestic or foreign)... as it was when I was a teenager.

It's only really some political parties who make the case for cheap labor.. and it's extremely limited thinking since such labor needs other benefits, and also is more likely over time to become angered over a lack of social mobility.

As for raising the 3rd world out of poverty, that has to happen through their own efforts. You can't gift prosperity. However, you can educate and boost their skill base, by encouraging skilled labor from here, to train natives over there. Basically, help them to develop a foundation to grow towards success.

OK a few things here,

First is that I said some immigration is good, just not the "diversity is our strength" kind, a little more than Japan and less than the UK would be perfect.

the next point was I said the majority of immigrants are the lower end of the work force, from fruit pickers, factory workers, cleaners, baristas and shop assistants. Fine but there are also those that get abused by employers who sometimes are themselves foreign born.

Lastly China does not really have an immigration policy, I have lived there myself in the North East and yes there are non Chinese people there but they are not settled and never will be, forieners can only get temporary status unless they have invested a great deal of money into the Chinese economy, China is very xenophobic and make it really hard if not impossible for foreigners to settle down and get a nation ID, there is an idea about "We of Chinese blood and the rest of the world" instilled by the government. In a moment the public/chinese friends can turn against you or your race simple based on bad international relations with the CCP as has happened when Canada arrested the Hua Wei Chair women China found two Canadians to imprison as retribution and all the problems blaming Africans living in China for Covid 19.

yenom

KrustyUCC wrote: »

New Government to set targets for ethnic minorities employed in public service

The next government has committed to setting targets for the number of people from ethnic minority backgrounds employed in the public and civil service.

The parties involved in government formation talks have signed off on the pledge in the midst of worldwide protests over racism.

Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party agreed on a Programme of Government that commits to introducing “targets to increase the proportion of public and civil servants from ethnic minority backgrounds”.

https://m.independent.ie/incoming/new-government-to-set-targets-for-ethnic-minorities-employed-in-public-service-39285140.html

The important thing there is the word 'target' and not 'quota'.

KrustyUCC

The 'target' will become a 'quota' if it isn't achieved I would think

fin12

How can we get rid of Leo? I literally can’t think of any party I would vote for now. They are all the same.

Is identity Ireland any good?

Geuze

If this goes ahead, we might actually favour illegal immigrants for PS jobs.

What other country in the world would do that?


You study, you do well in the LC, you go to college.

Somebody else pretends to be fleeing persecution, they fraudulently claim asylum, they are given welfare and HAP.

Then they get a PS job ahead of you, due to % places reserved for them.


Where will this identity politics / SJW end?

Yurt2

Many pushing the conversation in immigration are genuine open-border maximilists.

They think deportations should be abolished and people should have full access to the labour market instantly and housing assistance without reference to the validity of their claim.

MASI's list of demands for instance are certifiably insane. There are those who would give them exactly what they want, and they're not even sure why. As long as there is high-fives going around and an imaginary racist dragon in the heart of every Irishman to be slayed.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

fin12 wrote: »

How can we get rid of Leo? I literally can’t think of any party I would vote for now. They are all the same.

Is identity Ireland any good?

Nationalist Party are the only ones making sense on these issues, sadly they’ll all be labelled as “far right” by the time another election comes around.

paddyuibh

IMO I honestly don't know how Leo is still running our Country, Imagine making a statement saying that there's to many white people working in jobs in this Country, Ireland is only relatively new to the whole 'Diversity' thing.

And while "Some, Controlled" Immigration is good I honestly think with the numbers coming in is to high specially into such a small Country. Now while the "left" love to argue stating that all these Foreigners are the ones who are Treating us in Hospitials, Engineers etc. That's not entirely true. It was stated recently that 15% of the work force (Paying taxes) are Non-Irish. Which 15% of a 2.3 Million workforce is roughly 345,000 non-Irish working here, the foreign population in Ireland is near 800,000. So effectively over 400,000 non Irish don't contribute to taxes, etc.

I belive the workforce for the jobs is here in Ireland, homegrown. Does it make sense that so many of our young want to work and live in Ireland yet they can't so, and have to move abroad.

I belive we truly need a new Government, not any of the shower that's in the main partys now, one that has the best interests of Ireland. It's people and it's History in mind.

The media in this Country is so left wing aligned, only recently a young man was stabbed in Cork by a black youth. Miniscule coverage of it in comparison to if it was the other way around.

Now while some argue saying that stabbings happen all the time by Irish people yes they do. In this case and other cases this crime was committed by either a non national or somebody with a foreign background.

If you see videos online, news stories more and more increasingly crimes seem to be committed by Foreigners here, we need stricter deportation laws and people coming into the Country. This is what Leo and Co need to focus on instead of and not to be bowing down to his EU leaders and worrying about how to replace the Irish work force 🀔

paddyuibh

IMO I honestly don't know how Leo is still running our Country, Imagine making a statement saying that there's to many white people working in jobs in this Country, Ireland is only relatively new to the whole 'Diversity' thing.

And while "Some, Controlled" Immigration is good I honestly think with the numbers coming in is to high specially into such a small Country. Now while the "left" love to argue stating that all these Foreigners are the ones who are Treating us in Hospitials, Engineers etc. That's not entirely true. It was stated recently that 15% of the work force (Paying taxes) are Non-Irish. Which 15% of a 2.3 Million workforce is roughly 345,000 non-Irish working here, the foreign population in Ireland is near 800,000. So effectively over 400,000 non Irish don't contribute to taxes, etc.

I belive the workforce for the jobs is here in Ireland, homegrown. Does it make sense that so many of our young want to work and live in Ireland yet they can't so, and have to move abroad.

I belive we truly need a new Government, not any of the shower that's in the main partys now, one that has the best interests of Ireland. It's people and it's History in mind.

The media in this Country is so left wing aligned, only recently a young man was stabbed in Cork by a black youth. Miniscule coverage of it in comparison to if it was the other way around.

Now while some argue saying that stabbings happen all the time by Irish people yes they do. In this case and other cases this crime was committed by either a non national or somebody with a foreign background.

If you see videos online, news stories more and more increasingly crimes seem to be committed by Foreigners here, we need stricter deportation laws and people coming into the Country. This is what Leo and Co need to focus on instead of and not to be bowing down to his EU leaders and worrying about how to replace the Irish work force 🀔

paddyuibh

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Nationalist Party are the only ones making sense on these issues, sadly they’ll all be labelled as “far right” by the time another election comes around.

The National Party, Identity Ireland albeit have the best interests of Ireland in mind.

There leadership is a bit of a laughing stock. Therefore making it easy for everyone to basically laugh at them and call them "Far-Right Racists" a new party with a mixture of young and old needs to be formed one that focuses on all the main issues while highlighting the main goals to and to get a wider gap of the Population on board and interested in them.

Until this happens where left with the Open boarders far left parties of Fine Gael, Finne Fail, Sinn Feinn, PBP, Social Democrats, Greens etc.

Wibbs

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yep. A whole lot of groundless guff and the point that Gefira.org is a crock of shít website that throws out falsehoods with nothing to back it up is neatly sidelined. Has a lot in common with most of the commentary from the Alt Right echo chamber that has taken over this thread.

1) I've no idea who or what that website is. 2) I'm not against a welfare state. Indeed in some areas I'd increase spending. However it needs serious reform because too many do take the piss with it and there is a scary amount of wastage within the system even for the majority who aren't trying to game it. 3) I'm most certainly not one of those cut price imported Yank type "libertarians" who worship the Market™(I've never met one I didn't think was a complete tit). 4) I would never vote for a "national" party as again I think they're complete tits. 5) As for groundless guff, rather than just blurt that out because - and as I pointed out - you've no real argument, maybe debate the points?

Do you think non European cultures need this same diversity? Do you think the Tanzanian/Japanese/Indian civil service is "very [insert native population here]"? I doubt it, so why do European nations and Ireland apparently need this magical cultural diversity to be better? Why do you take the position of repeating the same series of mistakes of every single European nation that has tried to run this multicultural experiment? In less than twenty years we've gone from near zero social issues arising from this multicultural experiment to the beginnings of ghettoisation and social problems. Almost as if this is a sure thing any time it's tried. And it is.

Wibbs

paddyuibh wrote: »

Until this happens where left with the Open boarders far left parties of Fine Gael, Finne Fail, Sinn Feinn, PBP, Social Democrats, Greens etc.

Actually "open borders" is pushed by both the "left" and the market led "right". The former because of naivete and a dream of multiculturalism, the latter because they reckon it keeps wages lower and chips at the welfare state. You can have open borders or a welfare state, you can't really have both.

That said we don't have open borders or anything like it. That is right wing panic. What we do have is too much multiculturalism is great, we need multiculturalism to be a better nation, while ignoring the major negatives it brings with it and shouting down anyone who has the temerity to suggest that it's a failed experiment, not least for the non native populations even many generations in.

What will these quotas be based on? Race/religion? Working-age population? Citizenship?

Chicoso

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What will these quotas be based on? Race/religion? Working-age population? Citizenship?

Race

Hotblack Desiato

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Looks like it is in the programme for government to have a quota for ethnic minorities in the civil service.

Irish speakers?

ThunbergsAreGo

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Irish speakers?

I assume its the travellers. We could create a Department for them and employ them all. Tarbets are fine, quotas are a problem.

To hear the far right being thrown around in here by a poster is laughable. There is noone saying to stop immigration or social supports, merely it can't be a free for all. If that is far right, then I am far right.m, and I am pro immigration

Saying that, I dont think boards is representative of Irish society, but neither are MASI (who need to have serious question asked of them, who love dogwhistling more than anyone). Most are firmly in the centre and don't care till it affects them (water charges for example).

It will be interesting to see if this changes over the next year with the pro immigration/no deportation Pro increased government involvement push/agenda in the media at the moment, if there is a reaction from the people, or if anyone can take advantage of it. You would expect for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I hate the terms left and right wing, but there is a massive space in the centre for a new party with all of the existing ones moves left and being guided by Twitter. Massively disappointed in FG myself as this would /should be their ground but they have let workers down time and time again for "likes" and pats on the back.

Sorry for the disjointed mess

Chris_Heilong

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Lastly China does not really have an immigration policy, I have lived there myself in the North East and yes there are non Chinese people there but they are not settled and never will be, forieners can only get temporary status unless they have invested a great deal of money into the Chinese economy, China is very xenophobic and make it really hard if not impossible for foreigners to settle down and get a nation ID, there is an idea about "We of Chinese blood and the rest of the world" instilled by the government. In a moment the public/chinese friends can turn against you or your race simple based on bad international relations with the CCP as has happened when Canada arrested the Hua Wei Chair women China found two Canadians to imprison as retribution and all the problems blaming Africans living in China for Covid 19.

You missed the Koreans who were allowed entry and the Han are in the process of integrating then?

With China, I find that foreigners (that us) have very different experiences. Personally, while I can agree in spirit with a lot of what you said, it bypasses most of the reasons and loopholes that goes on with China. China does have an immigration policy. I know foreigners who hold residency, and they've made it easier for people to get through the process. Once a foreigner, always a foreigner... but that's the same across all of Asia. Anyone who thinks different is fooling themselves (I've lived in S.Korea, Japan, and China)

Still, this thread isn't about China, so we won't argue experiences.

Edit: I'd go with Australia's visa process for Ireland. Less prone to abuse.

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I hate the terms left and right wing, but there is a massive space in the centre for a new party with all of the existing ones moves left and being guided by Twitter. Massively disappointed in FG myself as this would /should be their ground but they have let workers down time and time again for "likes" and pats on the back.

IMHO all western democracies need serious review of their political parties and the processes involved. Ireland needs parties which represent more than the political/wealthy elite, rather than just picking one because there's no better options, or going with an independent you have little hope of achieving anything substantial. I'm hoping that the corruption being shown in the US politics will encourage reform throughout Europe, in terms of politics. I doubt it, but I can hope.

jmayo

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Kylie Minogue is some bird.

I would ya.

Unlike the front row at her concerts.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It’s like a white person who gets to the top of Nigerian politics calling out the whole country for their public service being very “black”. Like no shít Leo. This is Ireland. I didn’t see a black man here until I was nearly a man.

Yeah us Irish are so fooking racist that the historically 2nd biggest political party in the state is led by a mixed race son of an immigrant who also happens to be openly gay.

FFS I mean come on.
How many other countries out there can say the same?
They all must be ultra racist in comparison to us.

Deleted User wrote: »

IMHO all western democracies need serious review of their political parties and the processes involved. Ireland needs parties which represent more than the political/wealthy elite, rather than just picking one because there's no better options, or going with an independent you have little hope of achieving anything substantial. I'm hoping that the corruption being shown in the US politics will encourage reform throughout Europe, in terms of politics. I doubt it, but I can hope.

Ah come on.
People accuse the big political parties of being at the behest of the "rich and wealthy elite".
They may be some of it, where the connected ones (developers, businessmen, media owners, beef barons) have a lot of influence, but all our political parties (including the historical big two) have also played to what we in Ireland call the working class.
Except the rest of the world call them the unemployed wasters.

The real working classes, and that is everyone from menial jobs right up to your middle class middle management, are the ones always screwed over.

Anyone remember the PAYE marches back in the 80s.
Yeah at the same time the connected ones and wealthy were running tax dodging offshore saving accounts courtesy of our major banks.

In fact Leo the great referenced them sometime back with the statement about those getting up early to go to work.

Of course he promptly forgot about them.

There is no one really representing the interests of these people, the people that have no choice but to pay their taxes, the people who gain least back in return, the people who always end up paying for everything.
And the people who are going to be screwed over in this new great world order.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

There is no one really representing the interests of these people, the people that have no choice but to pay their taxes, the people who gain least back in return, the people who always end up paying for everything.
And the people who are going to be screwed over in this new great world order.

Agreed.

Although I wouldn't say that the political parties represent the working class, simply that they want the votes. Same as US politics secures the Black votes, without actually representing their interests. Which is why we do need a reform of the political parties, and the overall political system.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed.

Although I wouldn't say that the political parties represent the working class, simply that they want the votes. Same as US politics secures the Black votes, without actually representing their interests. Which is why we do need a reform of the political parties, and the overall political system.

Get rid of political parties and replace it with something along the lines of how juries work - pick a few hundred people from society every 4 years, preserve their jobs, rinse and repeat. Blockchain tech could easily be used to allow for actual democratic voting as they have in Switzerland, online.

The worst system is having a country run by people who want to run it, as happens from China to Washington.

Tony EH

paddyuibh wrote: »

Until this happens where left with the Open boarders far left parties of Fine Gael, Finne Fail, Sinn Feinn, PBP, Social Democrats, Greens etc.

Don't be stupid. :rolleyes:

CrankyHaus

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually "open borders" is pushed by both the "left" and the market led "right". The former because of naivete and a dream of multiculturalism, the latter because they reckon it keeps wages lower and chips at the welfare state. You can have open borders or a welfare state, you can't really have both.

A few years back Bernie Sanders was asked about open borders and responded "That's a Koch Brothers policy".
It's quite recent that the default left position has been in favour of open borders.

Tony EH

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually "open borders" is pushed by both the "left" and the market led "right". The former because of naivete and a dream of multiculturalism, the latter because they reckon it keeps wages lower and chips at the welfare state. You can have open borders or a welfare state, you can't really have both.

That said we don't have open borders or anything like it. That is right wing panic. What we do have is too much multiculturalism is great, we need multiculturalism to be a better nation, while ignoring the major negatives it brings with it and shouting down anyone who has the temerity to suggest that it's a failed experiment, not least for the non native populations even many generations in.

It's a particular idiocy of the nouveaux hard shaw internet right to constantly bleat on and on about "the left" as a label for everything that they dislike. But it's a thoroughly mindless application, when there are no actual, real, left wing entities in power to any degree.

What we do have is a mish-mash of neo-liberal right wing policy makers at the helm throughout the political world, who are wedded not too any actual social concerns, but to corporate interests and part of that interest is the importation of cheap labour, the driving down of wages and working conditions...which goes against left wing principles at a very basic level.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

It's a particular idiocy of the nouveaux hard shaw internet right to constantly bleat on and on about "the left" as a label for everything that they dislike. But it's a thoroughly mindless application, when there are no actual, real, left wing entities in power to any degree.

What we do have is a mish-mash of neo-liberal right wing policy makers at the helm throughout the political world, who are wedded not too any actual social concerns, but to corporate interests and part of that interest is the importation of cheap labour, the driving down of wages and working conditions...which goes against left wing principles at a very basic level.

Left-ish policies are generally more popular just about everywhere though. However that doesn't always translate into votes as the Left loves to trip itself up and the most Left people act as useful idiots in more than one way for the corporatist arseholes who pull the strings.