Gambling - what is the appeal?

Mad_maxx

Zaph wrote: »

Pretty much straight after the election on 3rd November.




It would only be a tiny fraction the size it is now if it did exist. But greyhound racing would probably be gone altogether. That almost seems to exist just to fill the gaps between horse races so there's something to bet on.




I had a friend who definitely was a problem gambler. He was the proverbial "bet on two flies up a wall" sort of guy. Then he discovered stock options. He diverted all his funds and energy away from the horses and into options, and basically lost his arse doing so. Several times I pointed out to him that if he actually bought the shares instead of options, even if the price fell he'd still have an asset he could sell to mitigate some of his losses, but he was always chasing the big score he felt he could make on options. He never did.

Gamblers definitely have a different mindset to non-gamblers. I was in town with the same guy one day and he wanted to pop into a bookies as a horse he liked was running. There was a race on TV before his race, and one of the horses was 100/1. I jokingly said I should stick a quid each way on it, and he was adamant I should. I pointed out that the horse was 100/1 for a reason and didn't bother. Obviously it romped home. As far as he was concerned I had just lost £125 (this was pre-euro), as opposed to not having won that amount. He couldn't understand why I wasn't bothered and it nagged at him and he kept bringing it up for the rest of the day in the pub. As far as I was concerned I wouldn't have even known the race was on if I hadn't been with him, and I was more likely to have lost a couple of quid on the race than have won a decent amount.

sounds like your friend was constantly engaging in options buying ( or selling ) ?

i do it about three times per month , usually no more than fifty euro and never more than one hundred and fifty

Truthvader

Every problem gambler I ever knew won big when he was young and spent the rest of their lives trying to get back that winning feeling

ExMachina1000

The only way to have any hope of possibly winning a football bet is when one side is odds on and at home and st home and in form and at full strength VS a team out of form with a terrible away record.

You need to be watching the game and seeing what is going on. Should the favs have scored etc.

Hope that it is nil nil at halftime and in the fiftieth minute place an in play bet if the odds are 1/2 or better.

Even at that you are leaving it to luck.
Sport is popular because it is unpredictable.

JupiterKid

Motivator wrote: »

You’re a recovering alcoholic yet you question why gambling appeals to people?

Sure. Does the fact that I became an alcoholic due to a series of crises in my life just over a decade ago - and used drink as a means to numb crippling anxiety mean that I am not permitted to comment about gambling? Addictions are addictions - whether it be alcohol, the slots, the bookies, the ciggies, weed, cocaine etc.

Hmmm..last I checked it was a free country.

Still trying to get that pound back that they lost thirty years ago

weldoninhio

JupiterKid wrote: »

Just watching a TV programme on a bookies in the UK and it seems to me that the regular customers are gambling addicts who spend all their money on fruit machines and betting on the horses and greyhounds. The high streets of very deprived parts of England are awash with bookies.

Also, isn’t it funny how bookies always seem to be located right beside pubs?

It seems that the house always wins. Don’t get me wrong, if people want to gamble, it’s their business and their life, but personally I have never seen the appeal. The odds are too high and it seems that like substance addictions, it just destroys lives and especially those of the families of compulsive gamblers.

Online gambling is seriously insidious and it is just so easy to gamble away all your money with just a few clicks on your smartphone or tablet.

I am a recovering alcoholic - and when I was in rehab there were a couple of gambling addicts in there with me. The amount of money they went through was truly shocking, and in one case the poor chap tried to take his life after spending almost a half million euro of money he took out of his brother’s business. He is now in recovery and will be paying back a massive debt for years to come.

Anyone here enjoy gambling? Or anyone else that struggles with a gambling compulsion?

I like gambling. Taken quite a bit off PP in the last month. I don’t ever gamble anything I can’t afford. It’s good craic waiting for a result. Currently waiting on Napoli and Barca for a few quid.

Ted_YNWA

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

I bet this thread won't last long...

The house always wins here.

declanflynn

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

The house always wins here.

Had a friend who opened an account with an Irish bookie, he owned a share in a horse, the horse won its second race at 5/1, he had 100 on it, left the winnings in the account. It won its 4th race friend had 300 on at 3/1, he now had 1500 in the account, for its next race he wanted 500 on the horse, bookie would only take 20.
Bookies dont like winners

POKERKING

Adele Aggressive Slang wrote: »

There is generally no statutory minimum percentage. 80% +/-5 or 10, would be a fairly accurate, and even market competitive ballpark figure from the likes of IGT/P'Tech and so on, even state backed lotteries recent unfortunate adventures into gaming, and very old school pub bandits would likely, on average be in this region.

Are you claiming the average (majority) are all either high 90+, or lower, e.g. sub 70%?

Im claiming most slot games come in at around 95%, esp in the uk market. At best its a couple of percent either way. In asian markets and eastern europe you can get slots closer to 90%. You may get a slot with a lower RTP in the UK if it has a jackpot attached to it. The jackpot is taken out of the RTP and its usually around 90-92%.

The biggest online game in the world now is probably Starburst(netent) and RTP is 96.09%.

Similarly book of dead(play n go) is 94.25%, Bonanza(big time gaming) is 96% and pretty much all of the biggest games in the market follow the same.

Playtechs biggest game at the min buffalo blitz is a touch off 96% and Cleopatra IGTs biggest ever game is 95.7%.

Back on topic, gambling if done responsibly is a perfectly fine past time. But like other vices such as alcohol when not done responsibly can have devastating consequences.

Someone mentioned earlier they couldnt see anything positive about gambling, the tax income for the exchequer is huge esp in regulated markets like the UK. Also it creates huge employment for countries, in ireland not only do we have high street bookmakers but we have Paddy Power online headquartered here and we have pokerstars with a huge base here(albeit recently owned by the same company). Xanadau(matchbok) down in cork, game on media based in dublin city centre and loads of other small ones dotted around the place creating employment.

And someone else said their wasnt much skill in poker, thats clearly nonsense too.

ILoveYourVibes

n the United States, men are about three times as likely to become pathological gamblers compared with women during their lives (0.64% vs. 0.23%). They're also about twice as likely to develop "subclinical" pathological gambling, a less severe form of the problem,

Insecurity.

Most problem gamblers are men. Men are 3 times more likely to become problem gamblers/ pathological gamblers . They are also twice as likely to become subclinical problem gamblers.

I think its a 'manly' thing to do. Nerds not comfortable with being nerds over compensating with hypermasculinity instead of being actual men which is harder.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/substance-abuse-addiction-recovery/are-women-men-pathological-gamblers

Men and women also tend to gravitate toward different forms of gambling: women are more likely to play bingo, slots, and keno; men seem to prefer gambling on the stock market, and table casino games, such as roulette.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4875054/

For males, risk factors included: 18–24 years old, not speaking English at home, low education, living in a group household, unemployed or not in the workforce, gambling on EGMs, table games, races, sports or lotteries, and gambling for reasons other than social reasons, to win money or for general entertainment.

Pedro K

weldoninhio wrote: »

I like gambling. Taken quite a bit off PP in the last month. I don’t ever gamble anything I can’t afford. It’s good craic waiting for a result. Currently waiting on Napoli and Barca for a few quid.

Do you have an account with PP? If so, I can absolutely assure you that while you may have taken quite a bit off them in the last month, they've taken more off you than they've given you overall.

JohnnyFlash

Pedro K wrote: »

Do you have an account with PP? If so, I can absolutely assure you that while you may have taken quite a bit off them in the last month, they've taken more off you than they've given you overall.

You can record a history of all your bets. If you start winning then they start by limiting the amount you can bet. Then they will close the account if you keep winning. Happened to loads of people after a very bad Cheltenham for the bookies a few years back. They closed my account immediately. PP are a shower of pricks even by the low standards you’d expect from bookies.

weldoninhio

Pedro K wrote: »

Do you have an account with PP? If so, I can absolutely assure you that while you may have taken quite a bit off them in the last month, they've taken more off you than they've given you overall.

They may have, but I’ve enjoyed it. I also enjoy reading, but I don’t go around thinking the bookstore has taken more off me than I’ve gotten back from them. Even if I do buy the odd shyte book.

Doctors room ghost

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You can record a history of all your bets. If you start winning then they start by limiting the amount you can bet. Then they will close the account if you keep winning. Happened to loads of people after a very bad Cheltenham for the bookies a few years back. They closed my account immediately. PP are a shower of pricks even by the low standards you’d expect from bookies.

But but but pp are great craic johnny.
Have you not seen their ads on tv?sound bunch of laaads.






Fcukin vultures tearing at the belly of society and appealing to and preying on the vulnerable.

Specialun

i have been gambling for 10+ years at a reasobly high stake. not soo much now as i had to reel in in to get mortgage and never took it back up. i play poker but i dont get the same buzz

what i will say is thats its very difficult to make good money. as you win you struggle to get bets on and that becomes a job in itself. years ago i was having 10k on ahorse. it was a plot horse that was i was close to. i remember having to organise people to put bets on across the county. it was madness

these days booking have gone up a level. the second you win any amount they close you fown. traders have shop workers watching out for shrew ones

i still miss the joy of the horse crossing the line or the “ we cant pay you now come back at closing” . if you havnt gambled its impossible to know the feelings behind it.plus horse racing is unreal dodgy now

Pedro K

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You can record a history of all your bets. If you start winning then they start by limiting the amount you can bet. Then they will close the account if you keep winning. Happened to loads of people after a very bad Cheltenham for the bookies a few years back. They closed my account immediately. PP are a shower of pricks even by the low standards you’d expect from bookies.

Yeah, I know. I used to work in the industry. Got out of it nearly ten years ago, and never looked back. It's nasty.

riclad

Theres people who have a few bets on horseraces every week.its like a hobby .if they lose they can afford it .if they win its good news
Then theres people who have a serious problem .they bet on poker machines .if they win it goes on more bets
i know someone who bets on soccer matchs .he makes a few grand every year .its done in a logical manner to make a profit .he records every bet on a laptop.
For some people its a compulsive habit
They get no joy from it .most of the time they lose. Its a problem as now you can click on an
app anytime .you can make a bet without even going outside your gaff

Pedro K

riclad wrote: »

Theres people who have a few bets on horseraces every week.its like a hobby .if they lose they can afford it .if they win its good news
Then theres people who have a serious problem .they bet on poker machines .if they win it goes on more bets
i know someone who bets on soccer matchs .he makes a few grand every year .its done in a logical manner to make a profit .he records every bet on a laptop.
For some people its a compulsive habit
They get no joy from it .most of the time they lose. Its a problem as now you can click on an
app anytime .you can make a better without even going outside your gaff

I'd be skeptical of this. When you win on a regular basis your account is restricted. Continue winning and your account will be closed completely.

freak scence

Pedro K wrote: »

I'd be skeptical of this. When you win on a regular basis your account is restricted. Continue winning and your account will be closed completely.

could be betting on the exchange

Andrew00

Having a winner on the horses is the best feeling in the world

I can't describe it but like if you've had 100 quid on a 7/1 winner you've the most incredible feeling for a few hours

Ubbquittious

Heidi Quaint Smack wrote: »

I never gamble apart from a couple of lotto tickets over the years, but I kind of understand betting on horses or football or being involved in a poker game. And I can see the fun of taking part in the various offerings in Vegas or similar. But all those ads for virtual casinos just baffle me. Betting money on random number generators and fake fruit machines while you sit on your couch. Bizarre.

Even the real fruit machines are fake now. Betting against the Windoze kernel rng

stratowide

Used to work as a mechanic in a garage years ago on the old Dublin-Waterford road.

Small horse box pulls in one morning.Driver says that it is barely driving and wont make it to Tramore for the racing.Hes in a bit of a panic.

Gave a quick look and changed the fuel and pump filter.A quick spin and it's as good as new.
Yer mans delighted.

I wont give ye any money but put your house on the horse in the back of this truck he says.
Guaranteed to win but dont be telling everyone.

The horse won at odds of 14/1 or so.
Only time I've ever backed a horse.

Few of the local wags said they were holding back the horse for a while waiting to make a killing and we just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I've never gambled since...:D

Mad_maxx

stratowide wrote: »

Used to work as a mechanic in a garage years ago on the old Dublin-Waterford road.

Small horse box pulls in one morning.Driver says that it is barely driving and wont make it to Tramore for the racing.Hes in a bit of a panic.

Gave a quick look and changed the fuel and pump filter.A quick spin and it's as good as new.
Yer mans delighted.

I wont give ye any money but put your house on the horse in the back of this truck he says.
Guaranteed to win but dont be telling everyone.

The horse won at odds of 14/1 or so.
Only time I've ever backed a horse.

Few of the local wags said they were holding back the horse for a while waiting to make a killing and we just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I've never gambled since...:D

great story

phantasmagoria

The appeal is easy money. Money earned without much effort is like heroin. I have been on all sides of the table - have been betting since about the age of 8. Worked for years in the betting industry and that was managing shops, working behind the scenes in audit/security, worked as a successful professional gambler for about 2 years. It is getting more and more difficult to get an edge with bots and with the pandemic, the lack of sport at times makes me glad that I didn't pursue it to the detriment of all else. I have knocked it on the head recently as I felt my discipline was waning but have a timeframe to return refreshed at the beginning of next year to have one last look before deciding on the futility or not. In saying that, it is still very easy to make small amounts with discipline but the time spent doing so is too sapping when you are used to covering your living expenses.

valoren

The appeal is "if only I..."

The thing that irks me is the granular bets and the "in game" betting. For example, Odds given on how many corners there will be in a Champions League qualifier match in Belgium. I would think anyone betting on stuff like that is a problem gambler. Reading reports on them shutting down winners is testament to how singular they are in their core goal; making money. The lad culture marketing of the bookmakers is also nefarious, disingenuous and should be prohibited. I get the appeal of having some skin in the game e.g. backing a golfer to finish top 5 in a Major and cussing him out when he missed a short putt but I feel that the genesis of problem gambling is a big win from a small outlay. The incredible buzz from that plants the seed. Picture an 18 year old betting some of his first paycheck, winning big and the euphoria induced by getting something big from something small. Someone mentioned earlier betting a fiver and winning over 1500 euro on an accumulator. I think pay offs like that are that first taste which leads to problem gambling. The "if only I" mind-set would be that I bet a fiver that time and got 1500 back. If only I had bet a tenner then I'd have got three grand....I think that leads to someone upping their initial bets for the greater pay off and, if they do get a pay off, then that initial fiver is now a fifty and over time it leads to financial problems. Remember the stories about Leicester winning the Premier League in 2016? A key aspect was reporting that bookies gave odds of 5000 to 1 on them winning. It expounds the idea a small bet could have won a life-changing sum of money. "If I put a tenner on Leicester, I'd have won 50 grand, I could have paid off my mortgage!"

One thing I do regret is doing some brief contract testing with PP in 2009 and seeing how abuzz their office was. My own personal "if only". If I had my head screwed on I would have invested in their stock. I then watched the price increase tenfold over the next couple of years. That valuation increase was obviously created by millions losing a fiver here and there, those "two euro" accumulators to nothing, filling the coffers and making bookies money making machines.

Feisar

I won €500 one time on Johnstown Lad. I went and bought something nice for my GF at the time. I didn't get any winners buzz or the desire to go at it again. Each to their own I suppose.

Richard Hillman

This carry on of shutting down successful accounts needs to be cracked down on. If you enter into the free market, losing money is the pitfall. The cash movement can't be just one way.

Niallof9

valoren wrote: »

The appeal is "if only I..."

The thing that irks me is the granular bets and the "in game" betting. For example, Odds given on how many corners there will be in a Champions League qualifier match in Belgium. I would think anyone betting on stuff like that is a problem gambler. Reading reports on them shutting down winners is testament to how singular they are in their core goal; making money. The lad culture marketing of the bookmakers is also nefarious, disingenuous and should be prohibited. I get the appeal of having some skin in the game e.g. backing a golfer to finish top 5 in a Major and cussing him out when he missed a short putt but I feel that the genesis of problem gambling is a big win from a small outlay. The incredible buzz from that plants the seed. Picture an 18 year old betting some of his first paycheck, winning big and the euphoria induced by getting something big from something small. Someone mentioned earlier betting a fiver and winning over 1500 euro on an accumulator. I think pay offs like that are that first taste which leads to problem gambling. The "if only I" mind-set would be that I bet a fiver that time and got 1500 back. If only I had bet a tenner then I'd have got three grand....I think that leads to someone upping their initial bets for the greater pay off and, if they do get a pay off, then that initial fiver is now a fifty and over time it leads to financial problems. Remember the stories about Leicester winning the Premier League in 2016? A key aspect was reporting that bookies gave odds of 5000 to 1 on them winning. It expounds the idea a small bet could have won a life-changing sum of money. "If I put a tenner on Leicester, I'd have won 50 grand, I could have paid off my mortgage!"

One thing I do regret is doing some brief contract testing with PP in 2009 and seeing how abuzz their office was. My own personal "if only". If I had my head screwed on I would have invested in their stock. I then watched the price increase tenfold over the next couple of years. That valuation increase was obviously created by millions losing a fiver here and there, those "two euro" accumulators to nothing, filling the coffers and making bookies money making machines.

To me though the last part of what you're talking about is part of the story. Not saying you mean it that way but the idea some people at the bottom of the system should be demonized for betting while some make absolute fortunes off "gambling" in the market, only that its legitimized and encouraged by the powers that be, is wrong. To me its no different in its core principal. Making money. Only one is built on dreams that rarely come true, facilitated by the latter - no different than the "american dream" only its facilitated by Paddy and the boys.

Gambling addiction or problem gambling is multi layered, but like alot of things in life it comes down to one simple thing. Money. As you say a big win off a small lay could pay off a mortgage. Personally i missed out on a 10k winnings this year by a close margin of about ten seconds, i could park it and move on. Some can't.

MAde money off crypto and some other stock, its just the same thing, gambling. Investment is gambling, lottery, scratch cards, its all gambling and risk. Obviously investment is more of a science but its still risk. Most of the people i know in professional trades don't invest even people involved in the industry due to the risk involved.

I don't think there's a huge mystery to it all. Humans desire and need money. And making or taking or even spending money feeds the beast within. We need money more than ever particularly seeing a 30k job in Ireland doesn't get you very far. And making that money either through stealing, bonuses, sales, winnings, flipping, antiques whatever it is its a bloody rush. I sold an old book from my attic last year for about 150 euro. It was a serious thrill.

So personally i think people should stop thumbing their noses at gamblers. It annoys me that we live in a World governed by risk takers and winners and facilitated by it all and then people talk about a few euro bets as a "slippery slope". Obviously at risk gamblers need help, and maybe we need more education around it. But i think in a country where somebody like McManus can make fortunes doing it (apparently a big win at 15 kickstarted it all) then we need to be really honest about it.

also some have beat the system:

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2150721/how-american-gambler-unlocked-secret-hong-kong

Pedro K

Richard Hillman wrote: »

This carry on of shutting down successful accounts needs to be cracked down on. If you enter into the free market, losing money is the pitfall. The cash movement can't be just one way.

I doubt the bookies can be mandated to take all comers' bets, though.

Just to add to the successful accounts being shut down and restricted, unsuccessful accounts are given priority. Their calls are diverted, at times of high traffic, past queues of low staking customers. Likewise, if they're a huge loser, a whale in Vegas terms, they'll literally be helicoptered over to Cheltenham or some such huge event by the bookie.

The degree of loser is also categorised, from your whales, right down to your low stakers.

costacorta

JupiterKid wrote: »

Just watching a TV programme on a bookies in the UK and it seems to me that the regular customers are gambling addicts who spend all their money on fruit machines and betting on the horses and greyhounds. The high streets of very deprived parts of England are awash with bookies.

Also, isn’t it funny how bookies always seem to be located right beside pubs?

It seems that the house always wins. Don’t get me wrong, if people want to gamble, it’s their business and their life, but personally I have never seen the appeal. The odds are too high and it seems that like substance addictions, it just destroys lives and especially those of the families of compulsive gamblers.

Online gambling is seriously insidious and it is just so easy to gamble away all your money with just a few clicks on your smartphone or tablet.

I am a recovering alcoholic - and when I was in rehab there were a couple of gambling addicts in there with me. The amount of money they went through was truly shocking, and in one case the poor chap tried to take his life after spending almost a half million euro of money he took out of his brother’s business. He is now in recovery and will be paying back a massive debt for years to come.

Anyone here enjoy gambling? Or anyone else that struggles with a gambling compulsion?

I’d highly recommend you read Tony10 as one of the best books I’ve read and a great insight into a guy who lost total control with horrific consequences

The Tetrarch

taytobreath wrote: »

Just wondering, would horse racing exist as a sport if there was no gambling does anyone think?

There has been a gradual change over centuries from the time when two aristocrats raced their best horse in a match (two horse race) with a little wager between themselves.
Then their friends who came along to support and spectate, and people who heard there was a race and came to watch, had wagers among themselves.
In the beginning racing was chiefly in Yorkshire and Newmarket.
Horse racing would exist without organised betting, but there would be fewer horses and racecourses.
It is a very popular sport that has expanded greatly. It is popular because you can view the horses, the races, and also bet on it if you wish.

dennyire

My brother is a heavy gambler. never gambled until about 19 or 20...now in his 50s. First ever bet he was naive and went to a bookies from construction site at lunchtime. Not knowing much he stuck a shilling or 5p whatever it was on a horse in a 2 horse race. He came back to the site and his mate said he should have backed the other one.
He went back to to the bookies and duly stuck shilling or whatever on the other horse.
Unbelievbly it was a dead heat

My brother couldnt believe it and since then has been convinced he is a lucky gambler.
Unfortunately if you looked at the stats over the years I would say he has lost a lot more than he has won

Cake Man

costacorta wrote: »

I’d highly recommend you read Tony10 as one of the best books I’ve read and a great insight into a guy who lost total control with horrific consequences

After reading your post I went and downloaded the book and now nearly half way through it. Good read and frightening how crazy it all happens, 1 and 2 euro bets all of a sudden turn into a few grand on a football match or horse race. Mental stuff.

The Tetrarch

Pedro K wrote: »

I doubt the bookies can be mandated to take all comers' bets, though.

Just to add to the successful accounts being shut down and restricted, unsuccessful accounts are given priority. Their calls are diverted, at times of high traffic, past queues of low staking customers. Likewise, if they're a huge loser, a whale in Vegas terms, they'll literally be helicoptered over to Cheltenham or some such huge event by the bookie.

The degree of loser is also categorised, from your whales, right down to your low stakers.

I went to the head office of the leading Irish bookmaker, paid my few Euro and requested information.
They e-mailed me the information. When I opened it their iesnare spying software downloaded onto my PC. I found it later, and the date on it was the date of their e-mail.
They got the money wrong, leaving out three four figures cheques they paid me. When these were included I was in profit.
I had stopped betting with them a few years earlier.
The most interesting feature was they had no personal information on me, other than basics like name and address.
Hard to believe they keep no information on their customers. :pac:

topper75

topper75 wrote: »

One thing I've found universal to gamblers is their keenness to report wins and their utter reluctance to talk about losses.

I don't know if that deceit is also internal. If so, it's selective thinking taken to an extreme level. Their brain must be 'broken'.

I think that's why it holds no appeal for me. I am very hard on myself and would be disgusted at myself for being such an eejit if I lost money.

The Tetrarch

topper75 wrote: »

One thing I've found universal to gamblers is their keenness to report wins and their utter reluctance to talk about losses.
I don't know if that deceit is also internal. If so, it's selective thinking taken to an extreme level. Their brain must be 'broken'.

"I had 14 losers in the first two days x Euro 5."
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058086785&page=8 (post 117)

On the racing forum it is the practice to post your bets and the reasons why you bet before the race.
Posting after the event (aftertiming of wins) is not allowed.

fryup

topper75 wrote: »

I don't know if that deceit is also internal. If so, it's selective thinking taken to an extreme level. Their brain must be 'broken'.

their brain is wired in a certain way, a personality disorder of sorts, genetics

The Tetrarch

fryup wrote: »

their brain is wired in a certain way, a personality disorder of sorts, genetics

Do you have research to support your statement?