Garda Accidentally Shoots Himself

trashcan

archer22 wrote: »

And one in his foot as well.

:D. Post of the day !

archer22

Garda guns are special issue, the manufacturer has to engrave "HOLD OTHER END" on the barrels.

Heckler

One saying that stuck with me since I started shooting, albeit in a civilian situation, is "The Devil loads a gun once a year". It means check, check and check again when handling firearms. Its why on a range the shooter next to you or an RO will clear the firearm too and not just leave it up to the individual.

Thankfully the member of AGS is ok.

shamrockvilla

archer22 wrote: »

Garda guns are special issue, the manufacturer has to engrave "HOLD OTHER END" on the barrels.

You seem to have a bit of a thing about the Guards throughout your posts on several topics. Did you ever consider joining?

Edgware

GreeBo wrote: »

Why?
How often does a guard have occasion to discharge his weapon while on duty in Ireland?

What has that got to do with anything.
If a garda is carrying a weapon then it is deemed that an occasion may arise where he has to use it. If you have only five rounds in a six round chamber with no round under the hammer there will be a delay. Squeeze the trigger to get the round into position and then squeeze again to fire. You are giving advantage to the opponent. This is a life or death situation not the teddy bears picnic. If weapons are treated with respect and handled carefully there will be no mistakes

archer22

shamrockvilla wrote: »

You seem to have a bit of a thing about the Guards throughout your posts on several topics. Did you ever consider joining?

I was rejected for being honest..they said they had a guy like that before and he caused mayhem.

shamrockvilla

archer22 wrote: »

I was rejected for being honest..they said they had a guy like that before and he caused mayhem.

Don't think you're telling the truth

No doubt it will somehow end up with him getting a compensation claim out of the incident.

archer22

shamrockvilla wrote: »

Don't think you're telling the truth

Personally I find that statement to be disgusting

shamrockvilla

archer22 wrote: »

Personally I find that statement to be disgusting

a sniper rather than an archer

archer22

Deleted User wrote: »

No doubt it will somehow end up with him getting a compensation claim out of the incident.

He will end up loaded.

Edgware

archer22 wrote: »

I was rejected for being honest..they said they had a guy like that before and he caused mayhem.

Was that at the interview and you were asked what was your weakness and you said
I'm too honest or at least my psychiatrist thinks I am

mouldybiscuits

archer22 wrote: »

He will end up loaded.

Hopefully it doesn't cause insurance rates to shoot up again like they did during the boom.

Heckler

Edgware wrote: »

What has that got to do with anything.
If a garda is carrying a weapon then it is deemed that an occasion may arise where he has to use it. If you have only five rounds in a six round chamber with no round under the hammer there will be a delay. Squeeze the trigger to get the round into position and then squeeze again to fire. You are giving advantage to the opponent. This is a life or death situation not the teddy bears picnic. If weapons are treated with respect and handled carefully there will be no mistakes

Would be pretty sure AGS don't use revolvers anymore. Semi automatics would be what they have. The analogy and timing between sqeezing on an empty chamber and racking a semiauto slide is fair enough though.

Heard horror stories of AGS certified firearms holders at my range without a wit of knowledge. Older detectives with revolvers not knowing how to unload/reload etc.

ShatterAlan

Feisar wrote: »

I know familiarity can breed complacency but come on! Does anyone know how much training these people receive? As a firearms enthusiast myself I can say that the fact I'm handling/using a lethal device is always tucked away in the corner of my mind. Maybe that comes from being taught from an early age.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0611/1146938-garda-gun-accident/

I hope the man makes a full recovery. He could have ruptured his femural artery and bled to death very quickly. He also may have badly damaged his femur which could cause a life changing injury. Hopefully he's left with no permanent damage other than the obvious scars.

Edgware

Heckler wrote: »

Would be pretty sure AGS don't use revolvers anymore. Semi automatics would be what they have. The analogy and timing between sqeezing on an empty chamber and racking a semiauto slide is fair enough though.

Heard horror stories of AGS certified firearms holders at my range without a wit of knowledge. Older detectives with revolvers not knowing how to unload/reload etc.

Thats a real maker upper.

Manic Moran

archer22 wrote: »

You're never supposed to have a live round in the chamber unless there is an imminent threat.
And if an imminent threat does suddenly materialise it only takes a split second to rack the slide.

There is also a device called a safety catch fitted to all guns which should always be on safe, unless again in an imminent threat scenario.

So you see guns are quite safe if handled correctly and proper procedures are followed..those procedures should be second nature to anybody entrusted with a firearm or indeed any other potentially dangerous tool.

But then the most dangerous tool in those type of accidents is always the one handling the implement.

Paragraphs 3 and 4 are perfectly correct.

Speaking someone who wears a sidearm every day, 1 & 2 are "what are you waffling about?"

archer22

Manic Moran wrote: »

Paragraphs 3 and 4 are perfectly correct.

Speaking someone who wears a sidearm every day, 1 & 2 are "what are you waffling about?"

I am talking about firearms safety as I was taught it...jeez isn't that obvious :rolleyes:

If Police are walking around everywhere every day in civilian areas with guns cocked loaded and only a few pounds of trigger pressure away from discharging, then that is a worrying situation.

At least in a relatively peaceful country like Ireland.

archer22

archer22 wrote: »

I am talking about firearms safety as I was taught it...jeez isn't that obvious :rolleyes:

If Police are walking around everywhere every day in civilian areas with guns cocked loaded and only a few pounds of trigger pressure away from discharging, then that is a worrying situation.

At least in a relatively peaceful country like Ireland.

You clearly don't even know what type of guns the Gardai carry.
You seem to believe that all guns have a 'safety catch'!

archer22

bubblypop wrote: »

You clearly don't even know what type of guns the Gardai carry.
You seem to believe that all guns have a 'safety catch'!

So do tell us, what type do they carry?

And yes I know perfectly well revolvers don't have safety catches...I did not consider them relative to the story, as what police force in the world carries them in this day and age!

Signore Fancy Pants

Sh1t happens.

I have no idea about the AGS policy on weapon readiness. Pistols can have one up the breach with the hammer decocked which requires a deliberate trigger squeeze to fire the weapon.

Thankfully, the round didnt go into genpop.

Manic Moran

archer22 wrote: »

I am talking about firearms safety as I was taught it...jeez isn't that obvious :rolleyes:

If Police are walking around everywhere every day in civilian areas with guns cocked loaded and only a few pounds of trigger pressure away from discharging, then that is a worrying situation.

At least in a relatively peaceful country like Ireland.

Most modern pistols do not come with external safety switches. I believe a standard Garda sidearm is the SIG P226. No external safety.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71u1RDSY%2BvL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

They instead have three or four internal ones. If you asked Glock or SIG to go and build a pistol with an external safety, they will do so, but those are requests normally of organization administrators afraid of liability, not firearms experts. Systems like decockers or internal strikers make the old issues of 'cocked and loaded' reduntant. I would not carry a 1911 ready to fire, it has to be carried in the cocked position. My SIGs, I do. Indeed, "Israeli Carry" as it is often known, of carrying unchambered, gained prominence because of the diversity of old, questionably designed pistols that the Israelis started with.

The actions on contact are identical both in a relatively peaceful country like Ireland, or a dangerous locale like a Brazilian Favela. You will just be less likely to encounter it in Ireland. Once the threat warranting drawing a firearm has presented itself, the relative likelihood of the event happening in the first place is irrelevant, because it has already happened.

Racking the slide requires the use of both hands, which isn't necessarily possible and prevents the possibility of as rapid an engagement. There is absolutely no reason to not carry chambered, and as a result, basically nobody who carries a defense weapon does it. There are plenty of websites which discuss the merits or otherwise of a chambered round. Few advocate it.

As for being a few pounds of trigger pressure away, that only applies once the trigger is exposed. This is akin to my daily holster. https://www.crossbreedholsters.com/media/catalog/product/s/u/supertuck-main_full2018.png

If you can explain how a few pounds of trigger pressure will be applied through the holster, I'll give you the argument. I don't see it, myself.

As you say at the end, the danger comes when handling it irresponsibly. Daily carry these days is fairly safe.

riffmongous

It should be fairly straightforward, get them to do a report themselves on how many Guards haven't been shot because they used that extra second of readiness versus how many accidentally shot themselves and see

How many of the "plenty of websites" will be American? We should be very wary of following their lead

Tokyo

Mod: @archer22 - your description of firearms and their usage certainly doesn't tally with the knowledge I'd expect someone to have who states they've had "firearms training", and it's hard to see that you're not trying to wind people up. Consider your next posts carefully.

Manic Moran

riffmongous wrote: »

It should be fairly straightforward, get them to do a report themselves on how many Guards haven't been shot because they used that extra second of readiness versus how many accidentally shot themselves and see

How many of the "plenty of websites" will be American? We should be very wary of following their lead

Most will be, because that's the country which has the largest raw number of people who carry a sidearm, and in the English language. I'm sure the Czech firearms community has a couple of websites on the matter, but I don't speak a word of the language. Perhaps you can look up some European police manuals, though we seem to have plenty of evidence that they carry chambered as well, presumably for a reason. This video of French police training, by way of example, has the instructor very specifically stating the round is chambered, then the pistol holstered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmqbEKv6BYY

However, just because you don't like how Americans tend to approve of firearms is no reason to conclude that we don't know what we're talking about when it comes to the practical realities of using the things. We have had a lot of experience to learn by. What's the effective difference between an American gunfight and one outside the Israeli embassy in Dublin, where this Garda was posted? What if the Garda is in physical contact with the opponent and has to physically push him away to draw his sidearm, or if he has to get out of the car? What's his left arm doing at such a time? Or maybe he was ambushed but, unlike, say Det Sgt McCabe, merely wounded in one arm, or better yet, is quick enough to draw while seated?

The bottom line, if someone is shot because he accidentally shot himself, it's his own bloody fault, and has absolutely no bearing on the tactical needs of an officer in a live situation.

miniture22

archer22 wrote: »

You're never supposed to have a live round in the chamber unless there is an imminent threat.
And if an imminent threat does suddenly materialise it only takes a split second to rack the slide.

There is also a device called a safety catch fitted to all guns which should always be on safe, unless again in an imminent threat scenario.

So you see guns are quite safe if handled correctly and proper procedures are followed..those procedures should be second nature to anybody entrusted with a firearm or indeed any other potentially dangerous tool.

But then the most dangerous tool in those type of accidents is always the one handling the implement.

Not all side arms have a safety as far as I know the garda use sigs and some sig models dont have a safety, they have a switch that decocks the weapon but it can still be fired if needs be.

Odds are he was getting into the vehicle and it wasnt in the holster properly and the trigger got caught on something

Heckler

Edgware wrote: »

Thats a real maker upper.

Maybe. Range is full of experienced shooters including ex Garda and ex DF. I lean towards what the long timers tell me they have seen.

Don't underestimate negligence. That's why a Guard shot himself in the foot that we are talking about right now.

Its not an accidental discharge. The gun didn't fire itself. It was a negligent discharge and he should be held accountable.

GrumpyMe

archer22 wrote: »

You can have five in the chamber and the hammer resting on an empty chamber as well for safety.

Anyhow surely they are not carrying revolvers guarding the Israeli embassy..if Hezbollah turned up they would be very impressed

The idea that the Israeli embassy is relying on AGS for their security would appear to me to be naive.