School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

rainbowtrout

shesty wrote: »

But setting that aside, my question still stands - what are other countries doing that we can do, might be the better way to phrase it?? Are they doing anything that we could adapt and tweak to suit us?Is anybody even looking at solutions or are we still just at "no, that won't work here??".I just get the feeling that we are drifting slowly back to where we were around early May, when I got the distinct impression that they just couldn't be a%^ed putting the effort into reopening schools, and a similar attitude will prevail for Sept.We are going through the motions buying books and uniforms as instructed, but I have no faith at all that we will be using them.

I do believe schools will be open. Not necessarily on health grounds (despite what the government might say at the time). If they are not open it will create huge problems in lots of parents going back to work (including teachers).

Money is one of the biggest problems here. One big elephant in the room is the Leaving Cert/Junior Cert. They didn't happen this year. Millions has to have been saved in not running the exams. Where will all of this money go? If it was redirected into the Dept of Health a few months ago, I'd say fine, but who knows?

Packages have been announced left, right and centre for getting businesses back up and running, grants are available, covid payment for unemployed etc. Plane loads of PPE for the health service. These are all necessary and important.

At a guess there are about 800,000 students in full time education from junior infants to Leaving Cert in any one academic year. Possibly more. It's in the best interests of the government to get this sector of society moving again for want of a better phrase. Yet no package has been announced for schools. We keep hearing about local arrangements.

Why can't the government provide a grant to each school based on size / number of teachers/number of student/ etc for PPE? Or given that they are able to bulk buy it presumably far cheaper than any individual school can, bulk buy PPE and other resources, work out a list of possible strategies that can be put in place in schools (with input from principals and/or teachers), release that list to schools and set a budget for them and say, 'here is your budget, you can order whatever you want from that list within your budget, to best suit your schools needs.'

It can't be that hard.

But schools are chronically underfunded. I am the green schools coordinator in my school and we had an energy audit from the SEAI just before we shutdown looking at all aspects of energy usage to try and cut costs. The auditor asked me how long the hot water was available in the school toilets (staff and students) during the day. I laughed and told him 'Never, it's never switched on'. This is unfortunately the norm in schools rather than the exception. We are coming from a very low base in terms of funding so providing the basics for next year would be a step in the right direction.

shesty

Absolutely.My husband would argue that solar panels should be on every school - and retrofitted where needed - simple yet effective to provide some level of hot water.

My project manager brain tells me the Dept should really be doing all those types of things though, not the individual schools.Which is where I think many parents fall down, in not realising that the teaching staff are doing things like looking into SEAI grants, rather than Dept looking at a country-wide programme.It probably suits individual schools to some degree to have that level of control, but it strikes me that it is fast reaching a point where the Dept should be taking greater responsibility for school infrastructure and prioritising it.

In the current times though, it is not rocket science to realise there are a selection of X number problems, there are Y number potential solutions depending on a school's set-up, here's a budget for each school (now) and get moving fast on whatever you need to kit the school out to start with in Sept by way of technology, PPE, sanitising facilities, extra cleaners, signage, the works - then allowing the nitty, gritty details of timetabling, staffing, how distancing will work, etc, to start to be worked out in detail.

It is already late in the day for all this, and still no sound.....

mirrorwall14

Yeah. I just posted in the coronavirus forum but at this stage in my opinion the delay is financial. They do not want to fund anything. Even though they have poured money into other sectors. Businesses have spent thousands to get their premises compliant with Covid regulations but the department can’t organise their own schools? The ONLY reason I can see for the delay and avoidance is they don’t want to fund it. I’m secondary school

What they should be doing IMO

Fund sanitiser In every room
Fund masks, visors and partitions for the desks at second level since our class sizes are so high
Fund classroom microphones so teachers can be heard by all when teaching through masks
Fund the building costs to knock doors into every ground floor classroom in the country which can be left open all day and used to keep corridor use to a minimum
Fund the building cost for additional sinks at the entry to the school
Pay for an analysis of each school to advise them how to be Covid compliant
Pay for panels of vetted subs (Even if they just have a degree in the subject) to be on call for illnesses as classes cannot be split and teachers will have to stay home
Pay for every curriculum to be adjusted for the coming year and the years afterwards to deal with the legacy of closures (and the possibility of more in the coming year)
Fund a full teaching portal for every subject at every level for the students who cannot attend due to pre-existing conditions
Put on extra school buses or put an adult on every bus to ensure mask compliance


That would go a hell of a long way towards getting us open and keeping us open

scrubs33

I know I’m stating the obvious here but I was just looking at the calendar and Friday week is the August bank holiday weekend which, to the best of my knowledge is when most civil/public service staff take their break, and we still have no definitive or even draft guidelines about going back. I despair, even more so when looking at the previous post about what should be done beforehand...

wirelessdude01

scrubs33 wrote: »

I know I’m stating the obvious here but I was just looking at the calendar and Friday week is the August bank holiday weekend which, to the best of my knowledge is when most civil/public service staff take their break, and we still have no definitive or even draft guidelines about going back. I despair, even more so when looking at the previous post about what should be done beforehand...

Here's a thought. The dreaded circular comes out at 5pm on that Friday. The department goes on holiday and there can be no discussion about the circular.

This occuring wouldn't surprise me.

km79

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Here's a thought. The dreaded circular comes out at 5pm on that Friday. The department goes on holiday and there can be no discussion about the circular.

This occuring wouldn't surprise me.

100% happening

scrubs33

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Here's a thought. The dreaded circular comes out at 5pm on that Friday. The department goes on holiday and there can be no discussion about the circular.

This occuring wouldn't surprise me.

That would mean not getting guidance until the 4th (at the earliest)which is exactly three weeks before we go back for a staff meeting??? Sweet baby Jebus...Hopefully someone is thinking ahead during the next week/10 days

shesty

See this is my panic (and again I am a parent...but with knowledge of how the public sector works as regards procurement, contracts and all that good stuff....)even just knowing what schools will need as regards procuring sanitiser/cleaning services/signage/kitting out rooms and staff alone - all these things take time to source and secure and as far as I can see...there is no time.Never mind in addition to the timetabling/distancing/how the fcuk do we do this debacle on top of that.

Sorry, this is why I am getting angry and frustrated, as I am sure many of you are.There is just silence.If I can see the basic problems while standing outside and looking in as an observer, why isn't there more movement on it from the people up at the front of the problem making the decisions?

mirrorwall14

Did I dream it or was there an acknowledgement that the incoming 6th years would need exam paper adjustments? I'd like to know any sections that are becoming optional ASAP for planning. I had been ahead with my 5th years before the closure but we're not anymore and I'm doing my yearly plans now

Treppen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Did I dream it or was there an acknowledgement that the incoming 6th years would need exam paper adjustments? I'd like to know any sections that are becoming optional ASAP for planning. I had been ahead with my 5th years before the closure but we're not anymore and I'm doing my yearly plans now

I don't think they could omit anything, maybe just give a little more choice within sections.

km79

Treppen wrote: »

I don't think they could omit anything, maybe just give a little more choice within sections.

I think all practical elements will not be examined
And
To compensate for this they will give more choice on exam papers

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

I think all practical elements will not be examined
And
To compensate for this they will give more choice on exam papers

God that would be a total disaster for music, the practical is worth 50%! If there's gonna be choice on the paper thats what I'd like to know

ethical

The problem with funding is the requirement by law to get so many tenders for whatever goods/work you require and unfortunately this does not happen until the schools are back...how many of you have had the Summer Works Scheme done over the last few years,really it should have been re named the Autumn Works Scheme,as by the time it was sorted out from a tender point of view the work was done during Mid Term in October. Countless years of underfunding is coming back to bite successive Governments now.
Ask yourselves how many of you have purchased essential items for your own classes other than waiting for school to provide them?


Teachers,for the most part ,are a caring bunch and the Dept,ETB or who ever relies on such assistance but never acknowledge it.
The way to look at it presently is "if the pubs are open,the schools will most definitely be open" and sure we'll buy a mask or two and some shields and sanitizer as well!

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

God that would be a total disaster for music, the practical is worth 50%! If there's gonna be choice on the paper thats what I'd like to know

Choice on the exam would be a far more logical solution because no matter what section of any course was cut out, there would be some teachers who had already covered it, and still have to make up time on what remains.

r93kaey5p2izun

Choice on the paper would be my preference for Maths. But the way questions can involve combining several major topics to solve, I think it will require very careful consideration. Most important thing is that it's sorted quickly and communicated clearly to teachers and students asap.

rainbowtrout

shesty wrote: »

Sorry, this is why I am getting angry and frustrated, as I am sure many of you are.There is just silence.If I can see the basic problems while standing outside and looking in as an observer, why isn't there more movement on it from the people up at the front of the problem making the decisions?

Please contact your local TDs and explain your concerns as a parent. We as teachers are not listened to when it comes to practical solutions, and we are vilified by the media.

When the question of reopening was raised some weeks back the unions raised the question of safety precautions for teachers - will we be provided with PPE as many people in other workplaces are, we come into contact with 100s of people in each and spend long time periods in classrooms with lots of students. The media ran with 'teachers don't want to go back to work' and if you look at the other thread on this forum about the Irish Examiner survey the question which was in it until it was removed due to complaints was 'Do you think teachers should be paid a full salary if they go back part time in September?' There has never been talk of us going back part time, students might be part time but we will be full time.

We can offer plenty of suggestions, but we won't be listened to, we'll just be demonised.

rainbowtrout

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

Choice on the paper would be my preference for Maths. But the way questions can involve combining several major topics to solve, I think it will require very careful consideration. Most important thing is that it's sorted quickly and communicated clearly to teachers and students asap.

Ya, they can't really drag the arse out of it for months (although they probably will) and expect students to prepare for an exam of unknowns.

shesty

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Please contact your local TDs and explain your concerns as a parent. We as teachers are not listened to when it comes to practical solutions, and we are vilified by the media.

When the question of reopening was raised some weeks back the unions raised the question of safety precautions for teachers - will we be provided with PPE as many people in other workplaces are, we come into contact with 100s of people in each and spend long time periods in classrooms with lots of students. The media ran with 'teachers don't want to go back to work' and if you look at the other thread on this forum about the Irish Examiner survey the question which was in it until it was removed due to complaints was 'Do you think teachers should be paid a full salary if they go back part time in September?' There has never been talk of us going back part time, students might be part time but we will be full time.

We can offer plenty of suggestions, but we won't be listened to, we'll just be demonised.

Oh I will.I contacted them and higher levels up too, in recent months over one or two things related to this whole mess, and I have emails half drafted as it is about school return.TDs, Ministers for Education and probably Health too. No point in aiming low.No answer is ever really received obviously but I don't care, I will contact and I know a few friends with kids who already have too.

khalessi

Survey for teachers on VFT

Bobtheman

khalessi wrote: »

Survey for teachers on VFT

What the f is VFT? I can see school openings delayed. I really couldn't care less because I can't really influence it. I will turn up when they are ready .
I know a delay might seem far fetched but I recall many saying the same when I said varadker was talking **** about the LC going ahead by hook or by crook. Whose laughing at me over that now!!

wirelessdude01

Bobtheman wrote: »

What the f is VFT? I can see school openings delayed. I really couldn't care less because I can't really influence it. I will turn up when they are ready .

Voice for teachers on Facebook.

shesty

Who defines "delay" though?When does "delay" stop?

Nobody really knows how the winter will play out.For any of us.Myself, I am beginning to wonder will I still have a salary in 6 months time, the way things are beginning to shape up again.Wouldn't be banking on a vaccine as a solution any time soon.If we keep going as is, "delay" just becomes an indefinite situation, where nobody is ar%$d coming up with proper solutions and kids end up falling behind drastically in their education.

MacGyver007

khalessi wrote: »

Survey for teachers on VFT

Here is the link:
https://forms.gle/EETVquyXN6kSsyKW8

Neleven

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Here is the link:
https://forms.gle/EETVquyXN6kSsyKW8

Thanks for posting this; hope it does some good. My preference is for as close to a full return as possible with the focus on hygiene, mask wearing, screens, movement protocols, testing and with local closures and temporary remote learning if a positive test in the school community demands it.

The Wordress

To be honest, at this rate of going, I want to enjoy my bit of summer. I refuse to worry about school in July. I really hope there will be a solid plan released in early August to relieve our pressure and worries.

I think it is a constantly evolving situation as it is.

If the children are only attending school for part time hours, I will panic as a mother about childcare.

However, like I said the summer holidays need to be enjoyed now for all.

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

I can see school openings delayed. I really couldn't care less because I can't really influence it. I will turn up when they are ready .
I know a delay might seem far fetched but I recall many saying the same when I said varadker was talking **** about the LC going ahead by hook or by crook. Whose laughing at me over that now!!

In fairness the phrase “phased basis” has become central to the Pandemic lexicon, and that’s jut another word for delay. So you won’t be far wrong.

It seems to me impossible that schools will operate at full capacity n the foreseeable future and even if they get somewhere close to it there’s always the threat of more spikes down the road. I’d say the first quarter of the year will be spent trying to work out what he hell is happening. The rest will be dealing with the slow dropping realization that the Leaving Cert and Junior Cert as we know them will not be happening and wondering when the Department is going to provide alternative guidelines.

Rosita

The Wordress wrote: »

. I refuse to worry about school in July.

Being honest I find it far more interesting than worrying to see people in management and government departments who so often get away with pretending that doing mere administrative work somehow is “showing leadership” actually have to demonstrate the latter. Not confident about the outcome but interested in it. And not worried.

Bobtheman

I'm worried on two fronts. Firstly there were a lot of kids who did not engage with distance learning. They might continue to fall behind. That being said a lot of them and their parents must take responsibility. Not popular to say that - responsibility. But there are cases where the house didn't have broadband.
Secondly I fear that arrangements would be too akward to teach. Safe perhaps but not practical.
I really can't see enough subs being recruited.

mirrorwall14

The Wordress wrote: »

To be honest, at this rate of going, I want to enjoy my bit of summer. I refuse to worry about school in July. I really hope there will be a solid plan released in early August to relieve our pressure and worries.

I think it is a constantly evolving situation as it is.

If the children are only attending school for part time hours, I will panic as a mother about childcare.

However, like I said the summer holidays need to be enjoyed now for all.

I’m not worried, I’m irritated and cranky. I like to do my yearly plans, sort out the department folder, lesson prep and resource creation at a nice leisurely pace over the summer. The pace of work in term time is insane. So it’s lovely to be able to take my time and design things. I wrote books several summers!

But I’m finding it hard to produce this summer because it feels pointless. I don’t know what type of resource I need. I could spend my time making lovely music resources only to find out that actually I need recorded distance learning lessons or that I can’t do any singing or I can’t use the instruments. And then I’ll end up under pressure finding/creating resources when they eventually bother to actually get their **** together and tell us what their plan A, plan B etc is. So I keep getting distracted wondering if whatever work I’m doing will actually be useful this year and then I get more irritated

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

I'm worried on two fronts. Firstly there were a lot of kids who did not engage with distance learning. They might continue to fall behind. That being said a lot of them and their parents must take responsibility. Not popular to say that - responsibility. But there are cases where the house didn't have broadband.
Secondly I fear that arrangements would be too akward to teach. Safe perhaps but not practical.
I really can't see enough subs being recruited.

Parental responsibility is a interesting one. I read, it was Jennifer O'Connell in the Irish Times I'd say, in recent weeks the Education Act being quoted to point out that we were all partners in education and that parents and students have rights.

The difficulty with asserting rights is that some killjoy will point out the flipside which is responsibility. And funnily enough that is catered for in the law too - the constitution declares that "The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family", which in fairness in some of the
experience I have is a scary scary thought and the very reason many kids are doomed from the start.

As a parent with two children who have not been in school since March I totally get the issue. But if the "we are all partners" thing really holds true (as opposed to everything is down to the teachers) then I await with absolute breathless anticipation the chairperson of the Parents' Association coming into one of our meetings and giving us feedback on reasons for bad behaviours of kids, properly explained reasons for absences (maybe - like teachers have to do - with doctor's certs to prove that they are not lying).

There's about as much chance of the latter scenario unfolding as there is of anyone in public office mentioning that parents need to step up to the plate as well. Maybe if we are still in the same situation in five years time and it is apparent that the "new normal" is actually a way of life and not a slogan they will have no choice. But it'll probably take that for it to happen.