School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

r93kaey5p2izun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Are there limits on how many people can use public transport at the moment? As in a max number that can be on a bus? Or is it just your must wear a mask’? Can imagine that they’ll just apply that rule to school buses.

Dublin Bus is officially 50% capacity, (37 on a double decker) plus mandatory masks. Reality not always in line with this though.

mirrorwall14

Irish times article https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/education/plan-to-fully-reopen-schools-at-the-end-of-august-to-be-unveiled-1.4312182%3fmode=amp

The Government intends to open schools fully at the end of August and will unveil a plan in the coming days aimed at allowing all pupils to return to class safely.

Tens of millions of euro will be made available to schools to fund structural alterations to classrooms and improve bathrooms for hand-washing, along with daily cleaning and hygiene routines, it is understood.

In addition, enhanced supervision and substitution will be provided to cover an expected increase in teacher absences. This is in light of official guidance that states teachers with any symptoms should stay away from the classroom.

Taoiseach Micheál Martin is to meet Minister for Education Norma Foley on Friday morning at the Department of Education to discuss the plans. It is expected the plan will be brought to Cabinet for approval early next week and published afterwards.

...

Detailed guidelines will be issued to schools next week with templates on safe classroom layouts and protocols for a Covid-19 outbreak.

Large quantities of hand sanitiser and personal protective equipment are being contracted centrally and will be distributed to schools.

Bobtheman

I think we should think back to the LC and the flip flops that occurred there thus until I get a letter from my principal with a start date I won't believe a word the Government says.

I just don't understand how they will create a 1m rule in your typical class of 25 students. Especially in older schools.
If a few students have to be moved out - who the hell is going to teach them ! Various subjects
Id prefer if we just abandon the 1m rule and get on with it..allow teachers with underlying conditions to go into resource.
Because- perhaps I'm stupid but I can't see how else schools can open. Unless - we divide years into two??!

Bobtheman

I think we should think back to the LC and the flip flops that occurred there thus until I get a letter from my principal with a start date I won't believe a word the Government says.

I just don't understand how they will create a 1m rule in your typical class of 25 students. Especially in older schools.
If a few students have to be moved out - who the hell is going to teach them ! Various subjects
Id prefer if we just abandon the 1m rule and get on with it..allow teachers with underlying conditions to go into resource.
Because- perhaps I'm stupid but I can't see how else schools can open. Unless - we divide years into two??!

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think we should think back to the LC and the flip flops that occurred there thus until I get a letter from my principal with a start date I won't believe a word the Government says.

I just don't understand how they will create a 1m rule in your typical class of 25 students. Especially in older schools.
If a few students have to be moved out - who the hell is going to teach them ! Various subjects
Id prefer if we just abandon the 1m rule and get on with it..allow teachers with underlying conditions to go into resource.
Because- perhaps I'm stupid but I can't see how else schools can open. Unless - we divide years into two??!

Presumably in the case of a class of 25 a one-metre rule renders that number impossible, in a regular classroom anyway. In that sense the word "fully" as in "reopening fully" is a bluff.

Schools can open, just very differently to what has gone before. And yes, school will have to be reimagined. There'll still be plenty of anger to come when the details and their implications will filter through I'd say. The 'schools will reopen fully' is the headline. Expect plenty of journalists looking earnestly at the camera telling you that the "devil is in the detail".

I'd prefer if there was no social distancing anywhere but the idea that because you're a teacher rather than someone working in a hardware shop or a factory different protocols can be applied is crazy.

But your point about flip flops and waiting for confirmation is well made. There also a reality that some schools are better placed space-wise than others to cope. And as outlined by another poster here yesterday there are a thousand "what ifs" in a school scenario that the "just get on with it" people outside couldn't imagine. So lots to play for still I think.

scrubs33

Taken from this mornings Independent article: quote from Taoiseach in advance of meeting the Minister this morning. "We will be in a position, hopefully, next week to announce the measures that are designed to enable our schools to reopen."
:eek::eek:

pandoraj09

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Irish times article https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/education/plan-to-fully-reopen-schools-at-the-end-of-august-to-be-unveiled-1.4312182%3fmode=amp

The Government intends to open schools fully at the end of August and will unveil a plan in the coming days aimed at allowing all pupils to return to class safely.

Tens of millions of euro will be made available to schools to fund structural alterations to classrooms and improve bathrooms for hand-washing, along with daily cleaning and hygiene routines, it is understood.

In addition, enhanced supervision and substitution will be provided to cover an expected increase in teacher absences. This is in light of official guidance that states teachers with any symptoms should stay away from the classroom.

Taoiseach Micheál Martin is to meet Minister for Education Norma Foley on Friday morning at the Department of Education to discuss the plans. It is expected the plan will be brought to Cabinet for approval early next week and published afterwards.

...

Detailed guidelines will be issued to schools next week with templates on safe classroom layouts and protocols for a Covid-19 outbreak.

Large quantities of hand sanitiser and personal protective equipment are being contracted centrally and will be distributed to schools.

Are the sick leave arrangements going to be changed to allow for these extra absences?? The 7 uncertified days every 2 years could be used up very quickly if we are to stay at home in the event of not feeling very well. If I stayed at home any time I didn't feel 100% I'd be out a lot! If a teacher is in the school and has a cough/cold will they be asked to go home? I hope, but doubt, that this is clarified in the Government guidance when it comes out. I've an operation I will need to have done in the next 12 months. If it's during the school year it's 3 weeks of my certified leave used up.

JPF82

https://twitter.com/Niall___Murphy/status/1286417753755267072?s=19

Saw this last night. Interesting to see how it would look.

mirrorwall14

JPF82 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Niall___Murphy/status/1286417753755267072?s=19

Saw this last night. Interesting to see how it would look.

God the space 😂😂😂

Bobtheman

I think essentially social distancing in schools just won't work.
However collegially I would back anybody who feels schools are not safe. However I doubt many younger staff ( under 40) know what collegiality is or even how to spell it !

Bobtheman

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Are the sick leave arrangements going to be changed to allow for these extra absences?? The 7 uncertified days every 2 years could be used up very quickly if we are to stay at home in the event of not feeling very well. If I stayed at home any time I didn't feel 100% I'd be out a lot! If a teacher is in the school and has a cough/cold will they be asked to go home? I hope, but doubt, that this is clarified in the Government guidance when it comes out. I've an operation I will need to have done in the next 12 months. If it's during the school year it's 3 weeks of my certified leave used up.

I think COVID sick leave is not included in calculating regular sick leave. I think this arrangement is already in place in the public sector.

Bobtheman

I can see schools " opening," but later

Rosita

On the RTÉ website there's a report which quotes the Minister as saying the plan will mean "all students and all teachers on campus". It stops short of saying "at all times". I suppose if that were to be the case there'd be no need for any guidance on reopening schools other than buying a few hand sanitisers. Likely its just spin in anticipation of the reaction. Otherwise it means no social distancing.

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

I can see schools " opening," but later

Assuming schools are having extra sanitising facilities put in and other adjustments it would be sensible to defer a few weeks. Would also allow school staff to work out how they will adjust to new arrangements. At a minimum new smaller classes will have to be formed and timetables configured. All takes time.

mirrorwall14

Rosita wrote: »

On the RTÉ website there's a report which quotes the Minister as saying the plan will mean "all students and all teachers on campus". It stops short of saying "at all times". I suppose if that were to be the case there'd be no need for any guidance on reopening schools other than buying a few hand sanitisers. Likely its just spin in anticipation of the reaction. Otherwise it means no social distancing.

If there is no social distancing in second level it’s a disgrace. And I will be up the walls. We won’t be able to see my parents for the next nine months if that’s the case (one is immunocompromised) nor the in-laws as both would be at risk. Heck I’m asthmatic myself

Rosita

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

If there is no social distancing in second level it’s a disgrace. And I will be up the walls. We won’t be able to see my parents for the next nine months if that’s the case (one is immunocompromised) nor the in-laws as both would be at risk. Heck I’m asthmatic myself

Plenty of students have underlying conditions too. It would be unthinkable that one sector could be singled out in such a manner. But like I said they left out the phrase "at all times" which is important given that they are in the business of selling ideas and policies to the public. That would have been the ultimate sales pitch but they didn't use it.

mirrorwall14

Rosita wrote: »

Plenty of students have underlying conditions too. It would be unthinkable that one sector could be singled out in such a manner. But like I said they left out the phrase "at all times" which is important given that they are in the business of selling ideas and policies to the public. That would have been the ultimate sales pitch but they didn't use it.

Yeah I noticed that alright

emmaro

It would be much easier for teaching if it was all students at all times for secondary, but I feel incredibly uncomfortable with that idea from a health point of view. Like Mirrorwall14 said, I won't be able to see my parents for the entire school year if that is the case. Both are elderly and my father has several medical conditions. My sister is also a teacher, so they could go 9 months without seeing either of us

Teenagers can spread the virus just as much as adults, yet they'd expect 30 students + a teacher + an SNA to be in a tiny room.

I will easily put up with the extra work of blended learning/teaching half classes if it keeps everyone safer.

emmaro

I feel like the government will present a completely unsafe plan which includes everyone going back at once with magical hot water in the taps and bottles of hand sanitiser. However, they'll secretly be hoping that the unions will shut it down so that teachers can be the scapegoat yet again.

wirelessdude01

This will be the ultimate PR spin for the govt. Schools back, leaked to the media that they put those pesky unions in their place but if and when things go tits they'll have left enough rope to then hang the unions/teachers for it. This whole thing is about optics. After that 'interview' I'm guessing Norma has been pretty much relieved of her duties and that Simon is orchestrating things behind the scenes. Meanwhile Norma is being put through a rigorous bookcamp in how to conduct herself and answer questions without shooting herself in the foot.

grind gremlin

emmaro wrote: »

I feel like the government will present a completely unsafe plan which includes everyone going back at once with magical hot water in the taps and bottles of hand sanitiser. However, they'll secretly be hoping that the unions will shut it down so that teachers can be the scapegoat yet again.

I think you are right. We will take the fall for this. It’s little wonder all of our newly qualified teachers leave the country.....

I am interested to see their suggested classroom layout. I doubt it will be similar to the tiny classrooms that exist around the country with no bathrooms and children cramped together.

It is most likely that there will be a pattern of classes being sent home due to an inability to supervise them as a result of staff illness.

What happens when lots of worries little children arrive into our classes complaining of sore tummies? We will need a whole row of isolation booths to isolate every child that complains about feeling unwell.

I worry so much about the safety of my students, my children and also my colleagues this September.

emmaro

My classroom is so small that I cannot get around to most of the desks, and the kids have to step over the chairs to sit in them because they have to be so close to the desks behind them due to lack of space. The windows also don't open wide (due to safety), so it's very stuffy and warm. We'll be in the dream covid breeding environment.

redunited

Whilst not a teacher I hope you dont mind if I just chip in.

My wife works in a creche, they are not allowed to wear masks in the pods and their is no social distancing. They literally feel like they have been left to fend for themselves. Already children are starting to cough and splutter with runny noses.

I think its a disgrace that the schools will be placed in the same prediciment, meanwhile this government rent a huge building everyday to do their business so they can be safe because the Dail is too small.

Either the virus is dangerous or it isnt, and if it is dangerous the govemrment should be putting the lives of people first, absolutely nothing wrong with blended learning.

As a parent, teachers and schools have my full backing for whatever action they decide to take.

wirelessdude01

redunited wrote: »

Whilst not a teacher I hope you dont mind if I just chip in.

My wife works in a creche, they are not allowed to wear masks in the pods and their is no social distancing. They literally feel like they have been left to fend for themselves. Already children are starting to cough and splutter with runny noses.

I think its a disgrace that the schools will be placed in the same prediciment, meanwhile this government rent a huge building everyday to do their business so they can be safe because the Dail is too small.

Either the virus is dangerous or it isnt, and if it is dangerous the govemrment should be putting the lives of people first, absolutely nothing wrong with blended learning.

As a parent, teachers and schools have my full backing for whatever action they decide to take.

Why aren't they allowed to wear masks?

redunited

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why aren't they allowed to wear masks?

Scares the young children!


Part of Zappones origional plans.


Face masks for children would not be mandatory and it may not be practical for childcare workers, she said.

“Our initial preliminary advice is that the wearing of face masks for children under six is unlikely to contribute to improved infection control. It may be the case that children would not use them consistently without a degree of re-enforcement or coercion. This would not be desirable.

https://www.thejournal.ie/creche-pod-system-social-distancing-5103998-May2020/


Personal protective equipment (PPE) is not required to be worn when staff are interacting with children, however when not caring for children staff should follow public health advice around the wearing of face coverings, the guidance states.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-childcare-criteria-to-include-parents-who-need-it-for-work-from-june-29th-1.4265897

wirelessdude01

redunited wrote: »

Scares the young children!


Part of Zappones origional plans.


Face masks for children would not be mandatory and it may not be practical for childcare workers, she said.

“Our initial preliminary advice is that the wearing of face masks for children under six is unlikely to contribute to improved infection control. It may be the case that children would not use them consistently without a degree of re-enforcement or coercion. This would not be desirable.

https://www.thejournal.ie/creche-pod-system-social-distancing-5103998-May2020/

Sorry I misunderstood. Thought you meant your wife and co-workers weren't allowed to use them.

redunited

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Sorry I misunderstood. Thought you meant your wife and co-workers weren't allowed to use them.

Thats correct, workers are not allowed to use them in the pods when with children.

Can use them when not interacting with children, but when in a pod ( children in a classroom) they are not allowed to wear masks and social distancing rules do not apply.


Personal protective equipment (PPE) is not required to be worn when staff are interacting with children, however when not caring for children staff should follow public health advice around the wearing of face coverings, the guidance states.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...29th-1.4265897

lulublue22

redunited wrote: »

Whilst not a teacher I hope you dont mind if I just chip in.

My wife works in a creche, they are not allowed to wear masks in the pods and their is no social distancing. They literally feel like they have been left to fend for themselves. Already children are starting to cough and splutter with runny noses.

I think its a disgrace that the schools will be placed in the same prediciment, meanwhile this government rent a huge building everyday to do their business so they can be safe because the Dail is too small.

Either the virus is dangerous or it isnt, and if it is dangerous the govemrment should be putting the lives of people first, absolutely nothing wrong with blended learning.

As a parent, teachers and schools have my full backing for whatever action they decide to take.

If I could thank this post 1000 times I would. I want to go back to school in September. I'm not a fan of blended learning though it was necessary at the time. However it boggles me that TD's are not safe in the Dail , wfh is still being promoted and other workplaces are subjected to social distancing and masks and or visors.
Why then is it perfectly acceptable to have large volumes of people in poorly ventilated rooms with often inadequate bathroom facilities for 5 hours + a day.
It's either safe or not safe

mirrorwall14

It’s probably naive of me but if they open them fully while simultaneously applying 2m social distancing to themselves could a work place relations case be taken? Seems mad that one employer (even the state) would be allowed ignore its own advice and regulation

Polka_Dot

Here's an interesting account of the result of re-opening schools in Israel, which other posters have said have a similar set up to our schools. After 10 days of reopening, there was a major outbreak. https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext