School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

lulublue22

Polka_Dot wrote: »

Here's an interesting account of the result of re-opening schools in Israel, which other posters have said have a similar set up to our schools. After 10 days of reopening, there was a major outbreak. https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext

In my opinion I think opening fully in September will be ok. It's winter when there will more than likely be an uptick in cases that schools will come under pressure. Availability of testing and clear guidelines around procedures to follow if a suspected / confirmed cases arises in a school will be critical. So too will parents co-operation in keeping child off school even if they think it's just the sniffles and collecting sick children from school as a matter of priority. Deep cleaning - availability and frequency of deep cleaning will also play it's part.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

In my opinion I think opening fully in September will be ok. It's winter when there will more than likely be an uptick in cases that schools will come under pressure. Availability of testing and clear guidelines around procedures to follow if a suspected / confirmed cases arises in a school will be critical. So too will parents co-operation in keeping child off school even if they think it's just the sniffles and collecting sick children from school as a matter of priority. Deep cleaning - availability and frequency of deep cleaning will also play it's part.

We all know unless this is outlined in watertight terms by the govt and back up by a clear and detailed structure that it will be business as usual with regards to dosed up kids being dropped to the school gate. Then the phone will go unanswered. Some things never change.

am_zarathustra

Polka_Dot wrote: »

Here's an interesting account of the result of re-opening schools in Israel, which other posters have said have a similar set up to our schools. After 10 days of reopening, there was a major outbreak. https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext

The number of infections in Israel were shocking. Withing 2 weeks of full reopening 1/3 of all cases were linked to an educational setting. Then the schools were closed. I really hope that the government deliver on the 120 page document the INTO head was talking about yesterday on Prime Time and that it comes with adequate funding but my confidence in the Department wouldn't be very high

mirrorwall14

Back emailing my TDs today again. Telling them if they plan on putting me back in the classroom with no protection that they can get the hell pack into the dáil and out the 50k a day bill into schools instead.

Random sample

It’s been mentioned before, but I think SD will not be a thing for students, just for adults. So teachers behind a desk with Perspex, students mixing as normal.

To decrease mixing, longer classes, or double classes will be timetabled. I know in our school management really want 1 hour classes and staff have been resisting for a number of years. This could be a way to push it through.

4 double classes in a day rather than 8 singles would limit contacts for the teachers.

Discipline will be a big issue. There will have to be swift and severe consequences for coughing on other students or similar ‘jokes’.

Rosita

lulublue22 wrote: »

Clear guidelines around procedures to follow if a suspected / confirmed cases arises in a school will be critical.

So too will parents co-operation in keeping child off school even if they think it's just the sniffles and collecting sick children from school as a matter of priority.
.

On your first point, if there's one thing schools are good at naturally it's guidelines and procedures. Too good almost to the point where procedures take over. But it should be an area of strength in this scenario as it's really what the Dept does.

The second point you make....... all I can say is 'good luck with that.' This is an area where we will be at the mercy of human nature. It's remarkable the amount of procedures and behaviours that parents and students sign up for on registration and they are ignored in practice. It'll be hit and miss and little we can do about in schools. As long as one of the "what virus......let's get on with it?" teachers is the one willing to supervise the kid in the meantime when they are withdrawn from class it'll be okay.

lulublue22

Rosita wrote: »

On your first point, if there's one thing schools are good at naturally it's guidelines and procedures. Too good almost to the point where procedures take over. But it should be an area of strength in this scenario as it's really what the Dept does.

The second point you make....... all I can say is 'good luck with that.' This is an area where we will be at the mercy of human nature. It's remarkable the amount of procedures and behaviours that parents and students sign up for on registration and they are ignored in practice. It'll be hit and miss and little we can do about in schools. As long as one of the "what virus......let's get on with it?" teachers is the one willing to supervise the kid in the meantime when they are withdrawn from class it'll be okay.

If the dep mandate that we go back we go back simple as. I don’t know many teachers who are of the mindset virus what virus. My point is that it is very easy to open schools but much harder to keep them open and will depend on high levels of co-operation from all involved. Whether that co- operation will follow through is questionable. However given what the gov has said to date I’m fairly certain a return to school is inevitable in Sep so from my perspective I’m focusing on steps / procedures to keep schools open. If they are in place we have some hope.

Rosita

Random sample wrote: »

It’s been mentioned before, but I think SD will not be a thing for students, just for adults. So teachers behind a desk with Perspex, students mixing as normal.

To decrease mixing, longer classes, or double classes will be timetabled. I know in our school management really want 1 hour classes and staff have been resisting for a number of years. This could be a way to push it through.

4 double classes in a day rather than 8 singles would limit contacts for the teachers.

Discipline will be a big issue. There will have to be swift and severe consequences for coughing on other students or similar ‘jokes’.

I'd say one hour classes, year groups confined to different areas of the school, and teachers rather than students moving for class are a given.

I'd also say that despite the waiting for guidance next week, ultimately a huge amount will be decided locally in schools as there are so many different situations in schools. I would imagine social distancing could be mentioned in woolly "as far as is practicable" terms. Then a lot depends on how jumpy the Principal is.

I would say that the Dept, for political reasons, will steer clear of putting blended learning as an advisory, instead finding some formula of words so that schools can incorporate it while ensuring that they avoid direct responsibility themselves. In fairness to them such a motley set of solutions will be required across the country that they have little option but to have creative vagueness.

And while I abhor the weakness of many teachers who think that our workplace should be considered less important in safety terms than the local bank or hardware shop with regard to social distancing, it is fair to say that there are many counties now unaffected by Covid.

Not sure they should have to be subject to the same strictures as a densely populated place like Dublin where the majority of the albeit small number of cases are occurring.

Rosita

lulublue22 wrote: »

If the dep mandate that we go back we go back simple as. .

Yeah, that's what happens every August. Not sure I suggested not going back. Some people appear to be of the view that others are arguing schools shut v schools open. They're not. The question is the precise circumstances under which they open.

lulublue22

Rosita wrote: »

Yeah, that's what happens every August. Not sure I suggested not going back. Some people appear to be of the view that others are arguing schools shut v schools open. They're not. The question is the precise circumstances under which they open.

At this stage that’s out of our hands - it has been decided and will be announced on Monday.

ETA I’m far more interested in the steps gov will outline in relation to testing / classes being sent home if no cover and issues around ill children being sent to school , ppe and provision of deep cleaning as this will have a far greater impact on schools staying open given that it looks like SD is dead in the water.
If some thought is given to how to keep schools open then we have some chance of containing the spread in schools.

Rosita

lulublue22 wrote: »

At this stage that’s out of our hands - it has been decided and will be announced on Monday.

Indeed. However, unlike you I think the tricky thing will be opening schools rather than keeping them open. Once the initial arrangements are in place and are solid, robust, and practical, rather than idealistic and fantastical then they should hold good.

Ultimately it is only an out of control spike in the virus that'll close them and there's not a lot the school can do about that.

lulublue22

Rosita wrote: »

Indeed. However, unlike you I think the tricky thing will be opening schools rather than keeping them open. Once the initial arrangements are in place and are solid, robust, and practical, rather than idealistic and fantastical then they should hold good.

Ultimately it is only an out of control spike in the virus that'll close them and there's not a lot the school can do about that.

That’s a matter of opinion - I can’t see a widespread peak and clusters two weeks after the schools open given our relatively low cases and community transmission rate. NPHET themselves have announced that we are on track to open in September. Keeping schools open during winter will be the issue.

ETA - perhaps I’m biased I’m basing my assumption of easy opening on the measures we took in June early July bases oh HSE and july provision guidelines. Barring a major curveball by the gov we will open easily.

Rosita

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s a matter of opinion - I can’t see a widespread peak and clusters two weeks after the schools open given our relatively low cases and community transmission rate. NPHET themselves have announced that we are on track to open in September. Keeping schools open during winter will be the issue.

ETA - perhaps I’m biased I’m basing my assumption of easy opening on the measures we took in June early July bases oh HSE and july provision guidelines. Barring a major curveball by the gov we will open easily.

The difficulty in opening I mean is the practical things like timetable and organising classes if there's any suggestion of social distancing. I'd imagine that will be a big challenge. After that presumably it's just keeping the show on the road. Hopefully anyway. Would hate to go back to the post March set-up.

lulublue22

Rosita wrote: »

The difficulty in opening I mean is the practical things like timetable and organising classes if there's any suggestion of social distancing. I'd imagine that will be a big challenge. After that presumably it's just keeping the show on the road. Hopefully anyway. Would hate to go back to the post March set-up.

We’re primary so don’t have that issue. I suppose it will come down to individual schools re numbers , school building cohort , facilities etc as to how easy it will be to get up and running. I’ve no doubt that Mons announcement will raise more questions than answers but as always schools will muddle through. I’m not a fan of the post march set up either and Tbh I’m not certain that we won’t revert to it either.

SligoBrewer

Government are spoofing on the day of the ASTI convention, they haven't a clue what they want to do.

There are 33 schools in the country with over 1000 kids in them.
We can't have 201 at a football game and yet these shysters think they can have 1000 kids in tiny buildings? Let them on.

maynooth_rules

Rosita wrote: »

I'd say one hour classes, year groups confined to different areas of the school, and teachers rather than students moving for class are a given.

I'd also say that despite the waiting for guidance next week, ultimately a huge amount will be decided locally in schools as there are so many different situations in schools. I would imagine social distancing could be mentioned in woolly "as far as is practicable" terms. Then a lot depends on how jumpy the Principal is.

I would say that the Dept, for political reasons, will steer clear of putting blended learning as an advisory, instead finding some formula of words so that schools can incorporate it while ensuring that they avoid direct responsibility themselves. In fairness to them such a motley set of solutions will be required across the country that they have little option but to have creative vagueness.

And while I abhor the weakness of many teachers who think that our workplace should be considered less important in safety terms than the local bank or hardware shop with regard to social distancing, it is fair to say that there are many counties now unaffected by Covid.

Not sure they should have to be subject to the same strictures as a densely populated place like Dublin where the majority of the albeit small number of cases are occurring.

The teachers moving class will not go down well I'd imagine. It's putting teachers, who lets be honest are more vulnerable here, at a bigger risk and it simply won't work for senior classes. They will be all on different classes and different bands throughout the day. Perhaps year groups on certain areas of school may work. It's a mess

eagle eye

So what's your plan for your kids? I'm definitely not sending my kid back to school in September. My intention is to wait and see what happens. If by the end of October there are no outbreaks then I'll send him back but I'm not risking it before then.

deiseindublin

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

If there is no social distancing in second level it’s a disgrace. And I will be up the walls. We won’t be able to see my parents for the next nine months if that’s the case (one is immunocompromised) nor the in-laws as both would be at risk. Heck I’m asthmatic myself

I'm in the same boat. I'm not work shy, I never was. I've been teaching for 26 years and I can't remember what year I last had a sick day, it was 2001 I think, or I know it wasn't since then anyway, could have been 1999 or 2000 either. I don't miss school for no reason, or easily but I am concerned about this virus.

I'm a bit incredulous that our unions might agree to this. They're supposed to represent us and be our voice. Surely they wouldn't just say "we're ok Jack, don't mind us, whatever ye want?".

shesty

eagle eye wrote: »

So what's your plan for your kids? I'm definitely not sending my kid back to school in September. My intention is to wait and see what happens. If by the end of October there are no outbreaks then I'll send him back but I'm not risking it before then.

Are you a teacher...?
If not, how do you plan to educate him?I doubt teachers will be juggling online and in-school teaching to facilitate you if they are in a classroom trying to get their head around how best to work things.....
If you are going to homeschool, then sure your choice, I suppose.

lulublue22

eagle eye wrote: »

So what's your plan for your kids? I'm definitely not sending my kid back to school in September. My intention is to wait and see what happens. If by the end of October there are no outbreaks then I'll send him back but I'm not risking it before then.

I don’t know why and I’m probably way off but I genuinely think Sep will be fine( provided it is as it is now). My main concern is from around November to January.

brookers

shesty wrote: »

Are you a teacher...?
If not, how do you plan to educate him?I doubt teachers will be juggling online and in-school teaching to facilitate you if they are in a classroom trying to get their head around how best to work things.....
If you are going to homeschool, then sure your choice, I suppose.

Does anybody know if you decide to pull your children out or dont even start the school year, will you be getting told off etc, emails phone calls, accused of absentism etc. The principal and teachers would know I am a sound person and parent so would totally take my side but just wondering would the Dept. of Ed have a different view.

lulublue22

brookers wrote: »

Does anybody know if you decide to pull your children out or dont even start the school year, will you be getting told off etc, emails phone calls, accused of absentism etc. The principal and teachers would know I am a sound person and parent so would totally take my side but just wondering would the Dept. of Ed have a different view.

I think normal procedures will apply - marked absent and notification to ewb when 20 days accrued. Though realistically I’ve never seen them do anything and I’ve often had children fall into that bracket.
You do realise that there will be no educational provision if you vol opt out of a school return ? It’s simply not feasible to have parents pick and chose. Unless your child is in some way immunocompromised.

Joe Kane

My child has a medical condition where if she contracts Covid it will be curtains. It'll be interesting to see if she and others in similar situations are going to be left behind and forgotten about on Monday or when ever the Government unveils their plans.

lulublue22

Joe Kane wrote: »

My child has a medical condition where if she contracts Covid it will be curtains. It'll be interesting to see if she and others in similar situations are going to be left behind and forgotten about on Monday or when ever the Government unveils their plans.

I would expect and sincerely hope that any immunocompromised child will be catered for. However an a la carte will I won’t I send my child in will not be feasible. That is not to say that I don’t understand or appreciate parents concerns.

byhookorbycrook

Joe Kane wrote: »

My child has a medical condition where if she contracts Covid it will be curtains. It'll be interesting to see if she and others in similar situations are going to be left behind and forgotten about on Monday or when ever the Government unveils their plans.

Expect lip service.

lulublue22

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Expect lip service.

I really hope not. I fully expect any school that has such pupils will step up to the mark. I’d be very surprised if they didn’t.

deiseindublin

grind gremlin wrote: »

What happens when lots of worries little children arrive into our classes complaining of sore tummies? We will need a whole row of isolation booths to isolate every child that complains about feeling unwell.

I worry also about how we will cope with the messers when they realise just what a logical nightmare this will be. There will be a pack of them all try it on some day just to see how many hoops we have to jump through.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

I really hope not. I fully expect any school that has such pupils will step up to the mark. I’d be very surprised if they didn’t.

How do you expect a school/teacher to facilitate online learning for a kid(s) in their class while they are working normally in the school building with the other kids? Can't do two things at once. I ask this as a teacher who might have two children not coming back in September for various reasons. I've already asked my principal for a solution and tjey said that as far as they are concerned that is up to the department to sort that out.

Blondini

Very interested in the situation regarding cocooning teachers.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How do you expect a school/teacher to facilitate online learning for a kid(s) in their class while they are working normally in the school building with the other kids? Can't do two things at once. I ask this as a teacher who might have two children not coming back in September for various reasons. I've already asked my principal for a solution and tjey said that as far as they are concerned that is up to the department to sort that out.

I would be expecting SET to row in here. I would liken any child not able to return to school due to serious health concerns as a child with an additional need. I would expect the principal to allocate such children to the SET timetable and an online learning platform - edmodo , seesaw, google teams set up. Now the SET team will not be able to be online supporting such children all day but I would expect that a set time be allocated for answering parental questions. Work needs to be set and corrected with a focus on a stream lined curriculum. Parents will need to accept that the level of intervention/ support will not be comparable to if the child is in school all day. It is I know a big ask but there is a difference between an immunocompromised child unable to attend and a parent not happy to send there otherwise healthy child to school. Unfortunately for those patents I don’t see a feasible alternative.