School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

mirrorwall14

ClydeTallyBump wrote: »

I am hoping that they also include specific reference to the teaching of practical subjects such as home economics.

They better include music. I’ve signed myself up to a sing Ireland virtual seminar on Thursday to try and figure out what to do about school choir. But do I use instruments, what’s the cleaning regime etc wtc

lulublue22

deiseindublin wrote: »

How much actual education will actually happen if we have to constantly split groups, ferry X group down before Y time, then repeat with groups A, B, C, D, E on a staggered basis, then bring everyone on a hand washing trip, then start the whole thing again before lunch break up.

Really, there will be nada done in lots of schools where there isn't an academic culture.

I'm really dreading it. It'll be like S&S all day every day.

Sanitising and ensuring respiratory hygiene in primary will eat up a huge amount of curriculum time.

s1ippy

https://voiceforteachersblog.wordpress.com/2020/07/26/representation-and-trust/?fbclid=IwAR1uxdBWg4dSJmttzMDgdGl1fQv-eQj1OS-s5gqHf_skrPftohtdDJYMV-k

Informative post by VFT about teachers' confidence in the DES and unions. Appalling stuff. I can't imagine tomorrow's announcement will fill anyone with confidence seeing as there's now not enough time to actually implement virtually any of the measures required to make schools safe.

I work across several schools and I was told officially by my manager at the end of May that we will be working remotely to Sept '21. Usually we would visit schools several times during the year. Tacitly, this is because schools are not going to be safe environments. Incidentally, we are responsible for allocating staff and funding, and we have not yet been given any instructions on an increase in resources ahead of tomorrow's announcement.

milosh

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

They better include music. I’ve signed myself up to a sing Ireland virtual seminar on Thursday to try and figure out what to do about school choir. But do I use instruments, what’s the cleaning regime etc wtc

Clear guidance is needed for a range of activities. Can choirs continue? Can extra curricular sport take place? Can we do a school musical with the local convent school? What does Transition Year look like. These are all important parts of Secondary education that I would thing the DoE have no interest in but are part of the fabric of schools. Guidance has to go beyond maintaining 1 social distancing.

Alex86Eire

ClydeTallyBump wrote: »

I am hoping that they also include specific reference to the teaching of practical subjects such as home economics.

I really hope so too. We need to know how/if kids can share equipment. We usually have groups of 5/6 for practical activities in my classes due to equipment shortages. I don't know if this is going to work.

mirrorwall14

Nearly there. One more sleep. It’s like a bad version of Christmas Eve.

Oh and I follow norma foley on Instagram. It looks like that Simpson’s screenshot was accurate since it appears to have been edited since 🀦*♀️

Murple

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I know that the INTO has suggested that a school be provided with one permanent sub(for the year) for either every 5 or 8 teachers. If no teacher was absent then it was suggested that this additional teacher was to be used to help extend SET on an ad-hoc basis.

Seems like a good plan until you think where will these subs be based. They can't be inclass. No school will have spare rooms to allow them to do withdrawal support. Corridor dwelling isn't a possibility anymore, neither is using the staffroom or principals office.
One theory I have is that they will use final year BEds, who usually have a 10 week placement, as subs when necessary, similar to how they upgraded student nurses. It may be they will do online lectures and be attached to schools as well. This may be used especially in Dublin where huge rental rates and low availability has led to a shortage of teachers in many areas.

abacus120

4th year for the kids is going to be awful,two trips for september already cancelled they will ne the year left at home maybe!

s1ippy

Here's a strangely early release.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-pupils-will-not-be-required-to-wear-face-masks-1.4313995?mode=amp

I took the liberty of copying it in case they jumped the gun (I'm seeing a lot of articles heavily and hastily edited lately so, for posterity):

School pupils will not be required to wear face masks
Government set to approve €350m school reopening plan on Monday

Secondary school students will have the option of wearing face masks if they wish in cases where physical distancing is difficult to maintain.

Pupils will not be required to wear face masks in class under public health guidelines to be issued to schools this week, it is understood.

While face coverings are not regarded as suitable at primary level, secondary school students will have the option of wearing them if they wish in cases where physical distancing is difficult to maintain.

Similarly, teachers will not be required to wear face masks, as they conceal facial expression and can make communication difficult. However, they may be used in cases where physical distancing is not possible in classrooms or where a teacher is involved in prolonged close contact with pupils.

The recommendations are contained in public health guidance for the State’s 4,000 primary and schools, which will be issued following a Cabinet meeting on Monday.

Minister for Education Norma Foley is due to seek approval at Cabinet for a financial package in excess of €350 million aimed at fully opening all schools on a full-time basis from late August.

Students' wellbeing
The package is understood to include hundreds of additional teachers and alterations to classrooms, along with administrative supports for principals. In addition, it is expected there will be additional guidance counsellors and psychologists hired to help support students’ wellbeing.

It will include a range of provisions for special education schools, including an enhanced cleaning grant worth about €4 million, and each special school will get a budget for a staff member specifically focused on return to school planning.

Sources have indicated that the curriculum will be adjusted to take account of learning loss since the closure of schools, with greater choice of questions in State exams. There will be less emphasis on sharing learning materials and, for classes such as transition year, less emphasis on work experience or putting students in situations where they could be exposed to coronavirus.

The reopening guidance to schools is expected to include templates for safe classroom layouts and guidance on how to maintain physical distancing between pupils of different ages. The advice on social distancing will see different rules apply, depending on the age of pupils.

No social distancing will be required for younger primary pupils – junior infants to second class – on the basis that it is difficult to enforce and that emerging research indicates these children are less likely to transmit the virus.

Older primary pupils will be kept in separate pods in each classroom, with desks spaced at least 1m apart.

Second-level students will have to remain at least 1m apart, and 2m where possible.

Teachers’ desks
The guidelines will state that all available space should be availed of to maximise physical distancing and that lockers or store cupboards should be removed from classrooms if necessary.

At second level, the advice is that double classes should be planned where possible – to limit movement – and that cohorts of students should remain together where possible.

Teachers’ desks should be one to two metres away from pupils, in both primary and secondary schools.

Schools will also be advised to consider staggered drop-off or pick-up times for children where possible, to avoid crowds.

In relation to drop-off of forgotten items such as books or lunch boxes, schools are advised to have designated delivery points that will not require interactions with staff.

Outside of the measures to be announced on Monday, the department is examining ways to increase the number of substitute teachers available to provide sick leave cover. Policies under consideration include offering increased hours to part-time or job-sharing teachers, as well as increased flexibility in the recognition of qualifications achieved abroad, and placements from teacher training colleges.

Transport?

PPE contracts?

Modernising buildings?

Sub hub?

Underlying conditions?

Sick leave for staff?

Class sizes?

I'm really hoping that the Irish Times is having a joke. I wouldn't even be angry about what a poor taste joke it is.



No not lolling, the other thing. Screaming.

mirrorwall14

To be honest I’ll worry about the rest so long as this is there


Second-level students will have to remain at least 1m apart, and 2m where possible.

Teachers’ desks
The guidelines will state that all available space should be availed of to maximise physical distancing and that lockers or store cupboards should be removed from classrooms if necessary.

At second level, the advice is that double classes should be planned where possible – to limit movement – and that cohorts of students should remain together where possible.

Teachers’ desks should be one to two metres away from pupils, in both primary and secondary schools.


All the talk seemed to be leaning to a full return to school for all students immediately. That could not happen with social distancing. I had actually resigned myself to not being able to see my mum until next summer. If there is actually social distance then it isn’t a full return full time for all pupils but it will be safer. I’ve no problem decreasing social distancing over time if it proves safe. But not immediately

km79

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40022555.html?type=amp&__twitter_impression=true

“By hook or by crook “ comes to mind
Looks like a full return for all straight away which is very risky
No mention of remote teaching /communication guidelines either

lulublue22

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

To be honest I’ll worry about the rest so long as this is there


Second-level students will have to remain at least 1m apart, and 2m where possible.

Teachers’ desks
The guidelines will state that all available space should be availed of to maximise physical distancing and that lockers or store cupboards should be removed from classrooms if necessary.

At second level, the advice is that double classes should be planned where possible – to limit movement – and that cohorts of students should remain together where possible.

Teachers’ desks should be one to two metres away from pupils, in both primary and secondary schools.


All the talk seemed to be leaning to a full return to school for all students immediately. That could not happen with social distancing. I had actually resigned myself to not being able to see my mum until next summer. If there is actually social distance then it isn’t a full return full time for all pupils but it will be safer. I’ve no problem decreasing social distancing over time if it proves safe. But not immediately

I think I may be reading this differently - what I ‘m taking from this is SD if possible but if not able masks to be worn at secondary level. At primary no masks unless teachers unable to maintain SD. I could be wrong but it’s like do your best to SD and if not wear a mask ? Now the money is good as is the idea of building adaptations -not sure how they are to be completed by Sep though.

ETA - if they are going for a full return with the best will in the world there will be no effective SD in schools.

alroley

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think I may be reading this differently - what I ‘m taking from this is SD if possible but if not able masks to be worn at secondary level. At primary no masks unless teachers unable to maintain SD. I could be wrong but it’s like do your best to SD and if not wear a mask ? Now the money is good as is the idea of building adaptations -not sure how they are to be completed by Sep though.

I am reading it that way aswell. The focus on social distancing is to please the public who know nothing about the size of classrooms. If everyone is back, which it looks like is the plan, there will be no social distancing. They've covered themselves by saying we may wear masks.

combat14

surely students will be required to wear masks In the classroom ..

if it is not safe to enter shop now for 2 minutes without a mask and they are introducing legislation regarding same .. students will have to wear masks or at least visors while in same room all day......... ???

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40022555.html?type=amp&__twitter_impression=true

“By hook or by crook “ comes to mind
Looks like a full return for all straight away which is very risky
No mention of remote teaching /communication guidelines either

Head fully in the sand. Did we really expect anything different?

wirelessdude01

combat14 wrote: »

surely students will be required to wear masks In the classroom ..

if it is not safe to enter shop now for 2 minutes without a mask and they are introducing legislation regarding same .. students will have to wear masks or at least visors while in same room all day......... ???

Wonder can schools implement a mask rule?

lulublue22

combat14 wrote: »

surely students will be required to wear masks In the classroom ..

if it is not safe to enter shop now for 2 minutes without a mask and they are introducing legislation regarding same .. students will have to wear masks or at least visors while in same room all day......... ???

Looks like no SD and no masks from ji to 2 nd class and magically 1 m SD ( when we remove our cupboards) with no masks from 3rd to 6th class at primary level.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Wonder can schools implement a mask rule?

If guidelines say no mask at primary or masks optional in the senior side of the school I’d say not. It will prob be a situation where some wear masks and others not.

grind gremlin

I’m reading the 1m SD in third up as a meter between pods....
So if we remove all storage, where do week keep resources needed for learning? Concrete materials? Art supplies? Where do we store them all?

kevin12345

lulublue22 wrote: »

Looks like no SD and no masks from ji to 2 nd class and magically 1 m SD ( when we remove our cupboards) with no masks from 3rd to 6th class at primary level.

I'm really struggling to see how they can have a "full reopening" of primary schools if SD is in place from 3rd to 6th class. There's no way I'll be able to fit all students into my room at the one time maintaining a 1m distance between desks. Unless they are going to suggest that SD will be optional for these classes?

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

Looks like no SD and no masks from ji to 2 nd class and magically 1 m SD ( when we remove our cupboards) with no masks from 3rd to 6th class at primary level.

Pods and then 1m between the pods in the classroom.

This idea that rooms have excess furniture is being put out I think to start a narrative that schools waste money on non-essentials.

Only additional furniture in my room is the desk where the SNA leaves her stuff. To me that is essential. She is part of our class.

shesty

I think secondary schools should. No mask, stay home. Can't wear a mask for medical reasons - show us your doctor's letter.

wirelessdude01

kevin12345 wrote: »

I'm really struggling to see how they can have a "full reopening" of primary schools if SD is in place from 3rd to 6th class. There's no way I'll be able to fit all students into my room at the one time maintaining a 1m distance between desks. Unless they are going to suggest that SD will be optional for these classes?

Use of pods, liberal use of the words if/where followed by possible, 'bespoke' local solutions/arrangements. This looks like a total clusterfcuk.

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the ASTI response to this.

maynooth_rules

shesty wrote: »

I think secondary schools should. No mask, stay home. Can't wear a mask for medical reasons - show us your doctor's letter.

I assumed this would be an absolute given. I'm utterly shocked and a bit disgusted that it's not going to be.

Postgrad10

I can’t see myself returning to school ( post primary teacher) if I can’t wear ppe.

wirelessdude01

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I can’t see myself returning to school ( post primary teacher) if I can’t wear ppe.

What PPE do you want to wear?

morebabies

1m social distancing is hardly worth bothering with at all, and impossible to police and maintain. IMHO it effectively means no social distancing.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Pods and then 1m between the pods in the classroom.
l

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Use of pods, liberal use of the words if/where followed by possible, 'bespoke' local solutions/arrangements. This looks like a total clusterfcuk.

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the ASTI response to this.

Classic dep all smoke and mirrors. Lots of current buzzwords but totally undercut by the if possible , taking local arrangements into a/c etc etc
seems to be a total cluster **** as usual.

Edited to fix multi quote.

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Pods and then 1m between the pods in the classroom.

This idea that rooms have excess furniture is being put out I think to start a narrative that schools waste money on non-essentials.

Only additional furniture in my room is the desk where the SNA leaves her stuff. To me that is essential. She is part of our class.

In my school the furniture is fixed to the wall.

The idea of having pods in a class is daft as the teacher is moving between them and then the SET teacher. As it stands from conversations prior to the holidays I am moving between a number of classes at one level, helping in the first few weeks settle in Junior infant children and also covering sick leave at all the other levels if necessary.

But magically I wont carry any possible infection from pod to pod.

It will be interesting to read the full report. They seem to think we are falling over sub teachers. Who would come back from abroad to help the teaching crisis after watching how they treated the medical staff? Who would want to return from retirement? Maybe a few on career breaks might come back but not enough to fill the gaps

shesty

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I assumed this would be an absolute given. I'm utterly shocked and a bit disgusted that it's not going to be.

Probably reluctant to commit to cater for the minority that may not be able to manage a mask for medical or other reasons. I think it would be reasonable to ask for a doctor letter (and not a parent's note) if a teenager genuinely cannot wear a mask for asthmatic and other reasons. It's like the herd immunity concept - everyone else wear a mask so those that can't have some bit of protection. Might be worth seeing could clarity be sought from the Department on whether a school can enforce this.


Adding as I said before I am not a teacher, but I don't see it as reasonable to consider the person at the top of the room projecting their voice should be the only to have a mask on for protection - I struggle to make myself heard at the butcher counter in a local shop, so expecting a teacher to do it is not reasonable.


I suspect common sense evades the Dept of Education on some fronts however. Maybe I am too black and white in my thinking. But equally, in situations such as this, I think you probably should just be black and white and have a blanket approach. Shades of grey will cause the problems, they make people think they have options.