School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

combat14

shesty wrote: »

Probably reluctant to commit to cater for the minority that may not be able to manage a mask for medical or other reasons. I think it would be reasonable to ask for a doctor letter (and not a parent's note) if a teenager genuinely cannot wear a mask for asthmatic and other reasons. It's like the herd immunity concept - everyone else wear a mask so those that can't have some bit of protection. Might be worth seeing could clarity be sought from the Department on whether a school can enforce this.


Adding as I said before I am not a teacher, but I don't see it as reasonable to consider the person at the top of the room projecting their voice should be the only to have a mask on for protection - I struggle to make myself heard at the butcher counter in a local shop, so expecting a teacher to do it is not reasonable.


I suspect common sense evades the Dept of Education on some fronts however. Maybe I am too black and white in my thinking. But equally, in situations such as this, I think you probably should just be black and white and have a blanket approach. Shades of grey will cause the problems, they make people think they have options.

there cant be options during a global pandemic..
students and staff need crystal clear enforceable guidelines

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

In my school the furniture is fixed to the wall.

The idea of having pods in a class is daft as the teacher is moving between them and then the SET teacher. As it stands from conversations prior to the holidays I am moving between a number of classes at one level, helping in the first few weeks settle in Junior infant children and also covering sick leave at all the other levels if necessary.

But magically I wont carry any possible infection from pod to pod.

It will be interesting to read the full report. They seem to think we are falling over sub teachers. Who would come back from abroad to help the teaching crisis after watching how they treated the medical staff? Who would want to return from retirement? Maybe a few on career breaks might come back but not enough to fill the gaps

Anyone on a contract abroad would be stupid to come home unless they have a a guaranteed full hours for secondary or guaranteed 12 month contract with full pay for primary. Doubt many retired teachers would be willing to come back into this mess as they've already done their time(I wouldn't in the current scenario).

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Anyone on a contract abroad would be stupid to come home unless they have a a guaranteed full hours for secondary or guaranteed 12 month contract with full pay for primary. Doubt many retired teachers would be willing to come back into this mess as doing their time(I wouldn't in the current scenario).

I can’t see retired teachers coming back into this situation - I can see those close to going weighing up their options - in a slightly more vulnerable age bracket and little to no protection.

combat14

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Anyone on a contract abroad would be stupid to come home unless they have a a guaranteed full hours for secondary or guaranteed 12 month contract with full pay for primary. Doubt many retired teachers would be willing to come back into this mess as doing their time(I wouldn't in the current scenario).

any young staff I kno abroad are extremely reluctant to come back...

Rosita

shesty wrote: »

Probably reluctant to commit to cater for the minority that may not be able to manage a mask for medical or other reasons. I think it would be reasonable to ask for a doctor letter (and not a parent's note) if a teenager genuinely cannot wear a mask for asthmatic and other reasons. It's like the herd immunity concept - everyone else wear a mask so those that can't have some bit of protection. Might be worth seeing could clarity be sought from the Department on whether a school can enforce this.


Adding as I said before I am not a teacher, but I don't see it as reasonable to consider the person at the top of the room projecting their voice should be the only to have a mask on for protection - I struggle to make myself heard at the butcher counter in a local shop, so expecting a teacher to do it is not reasonable.


I suspect common sense evades the Dept of Education on some fronts however. Maybe I am too black and white in my thinking. But equally, in situations such as this, I think you probably should just be black and white and have a blanket approach. Shades of grey will cause the problems, they make people think they have options.

I totally get your point about black and white but then if someone "forgets" their mask (I've seen people come in having forgotten their schoolbags) what's to be done with them if there's a blanket insistence on mask-wearing and they don't have one?

Colm O'Rourke on the radio this morning suggesting that teachers will have to operate behind a Perspex screen. The next four/five weeks will be a fascinating watch.

Murple

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Use of pods, liberal use of the words if/where followed by possible, 'bespoke' local solutions/arrangements. This looks like a total clusterfcuk.

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the ASTI response to this.

If what has been printed this morning is what's in the plan, sorry, "plan", is true, I hope the unions don't fall into the trap of using highly emotional responses. If they just focus on pointing out what many posters here have pointed out as glaringly obvious stumbling blocks, contradictions and f*ckups, it will show up the department "plan" for what it is.

wirelessdude01

Rosita wrote: »

Colm O'Rourke on the radio this morning suggesting that teachers will have to operate behind a Perspex screen. The next four/five weeks will be a fascinating watch.

Not workable at primary whatever about secondary.

SligoBrewer

combat14 wrote: »

surely students will be required to wear masks In the classroom ..

if it is not safe to enter shop now for 2 minutes without a mask and they are introducing legislation regarding same .. students will have to wear masks or at least visors while in same room all day......... ???

Visors are not safe and should be accepted by anyone.

Rosita wrote: »

I totally get your point about black and white but then if someone "forgets" their mask (I've seen people come in having forgotten their schoolbags) what's to be done with them if there's a blanket insistence on mask-wearing and they don't have one?

You will have to give out masks at the door.

This is a mess. We all know our buildings cannot handle this. We do not have the physical space even if every unemployed person was dragged in off of the street to teach.

khalessi

Murple wrote: »

If what has been printed this morning is what's in the plan, sorry, "plan", is true, I hope the unions don't fall into the trap of using highly emotional responses. If they just focus on pointing out what many posters here have pointed out as glaringly obvious stumbling blocks, contradictions and f*ckups, it will show up the department "plan" for what it is.

Popcorn ready for the "teachers are preventing schools from opening" argument and its all about pay theories.

combat14

unions seem optimistic about plans so far... ??

Icyseanfitz

combat14 wrote: »

unions seem optimistic about plans so far... ??

From what we are reading to call it a plan is akin to calling a cat a donkey

Rosita

combat14 wrote: »

unions seem optimistic about plans so far... ??

Unions should appear optimistic at all times while pointing put rational issues to be addressed. There's no need to be overtly pessimistic. The impossibility of the scenario being envisaged will reveal itself if given the space to do so. As outlined by the comment from a "senior source" in Pat Leahy's Irish Times article the other day, the next four weeks is about who gets the blame rather than schools opening. The unions just need to hold their heads. Optimistic is good.

wirelessdude01

Wonder if the NPC will call it out as a mess when it is released?

shesty

Rosita wrote: »

I totally get your point about black and white but then if someone "forgets" their mask (I've seen people come in having forgotten their schoolbags) what's to be done with them if there's a blanket insistence on mask-wearing and they don't have one?
.

What do they do if they go to a shop and don't have a mask?Or get on a bus and don't have a mask?What will they do if they come in with a temperature?

It's a moot point really, since the Dept are not insisting, but personal responsibility might have to come back into vogue.Get rid of the shades of grey on the topic and don't what if - this is public health after all.Have your mask or go home and get it.Will their parents go into work without one for themselves?

At worse case a school could have an emergency stash of them, maybe with a small charge attached to deter repeat offenders.

However as I said, it is a bit irrelevant to debate, as it doesn't seem that it will be a requirement for students.

Random sample

I’d rather a Perspex screen around my desk than wearing a mask all day.

Random sample

Double classes would mean only meeting a max of 4 groups a day too. It could cut contacts in half lol

khalessi

Random sample wrote: »

I’d rather a Perspex screen around my desk than wearing a mask all day.

I would like both

Alex86Eire

Random sample wrote: »

I’d rather a Perspex screen around my desk than wearing a mask all day.

Most of our desks aren't in front of our whiteboards so don't think it would work for schools like ours.

Murple

All the talk to date has been about how wearing a mask protects others but not the mask wearer, unless you have a medical grade one. So what would be the point in a teacher wearing a mask in the classroom if none of the children are?

khalessi

Murple wrote: »

All the talk to date has been about how wearing a mask protects others but not the mask wearer, unless you have a medical grade one. So what would be the point in a teacher wearing a mask in the classroom if none of the children are?

Well there could be asymptomatic carriers in the class or the teacher could be one.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Random sample wrote: »

Double classes would mean only meeting a max of 4 groups a day too. It could cut contacts in half lol

We've moved to 1 hours classes, jesus I hope there won't be 2 hr doubles

Postgrad10

I’d wear a mask and I’d like a screen. I’m always on the move so will use my tablet only instead of a pc keyboard. And yes it’s my own tablet.

maynooth_rules

morebabies wrote: »

1m social distancing is hardly worth bothering with at all, and impossible to police and maintain. IMHO it effectively means no social distancing.

Yep, it's equivalent of just saying don't touch one another

alroley

Moving teachers desks to by the whiteboard and putting a protective screen up would be beneficial for protection. I don't feel comfortable circulating around the room like I used to anyway.

ClydeTallyBump

The way it is going I will be moving to a lecture style of teaching for this forthcoming academic year.

There is very little way that my school can implement even 1m SD with our tiny classrooms.

jimmytwotimes 2013

ClydeTallyBump wrote: »

The way it is going I will be moving to a lecture style of teaching for this forthcoming academic year.

There is very little way that my school can implement even 1m SD with our tiny classrooms.

We'd have 2 students at each of those double desks. Presume the double desks have to go and be replaced by single desks?

Timetabling will have to be redone if double classes to be maximised as well?

Postgrad10

alroley wrote: »

Moving teachers desks to by the whiteboard and putting a protective screen up would be beneficial for protection. I don't feel comfortable circulating around the room like I used to anyway.

I know what you mean. And it’s a squash to get past others to get to them. Not going to work this year.

killbillvol2

It's a bit early to react to the leaks so far but a few observations.

The unions need to shut the **** up and let the flaws in the 'plan' become obvious to even the most half-witted journalists. Let them pick holes in it. That clown in the ASTI who likes his soundbites should be locked in a room for a couple of weeks.

Retired teachers are not going to return to classrooms. Nor are young teachers who've been treated like sh1t and are earning good money abroad. They saw what happened to the medics who answered the call.

Has anybody tried to get a builder or plumber recently? Minor works grant isn't much use if you can't spend it.

Alex86Eire

Does anyone else have rooms where nothing is movable? Teachers desks, student desks (old fashioned fixed rows), cupboards etc are all nailed down? I'm pretty worried about it.

Coneygree

Rosita wrote: »

Colm O'Rourke on the radio this morning suggesting that teachers will have to operate behind a Perspex screen. The next four/five weeks will be a fascinating watch.

Christ above do they think teachers are like priests preaching from a lectern and that they never move around. I'd rather wear an astronaut suit and be able to move around than to be confined behind a screen. I'm a teacher, not a till worker.