School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

F5500

deiseindublin wrote: »

How much education will actually happen while we jump through all these hoops?

I would wager that a continuation of online classes with students at home would be both safer and more beneficial to education than what is proposed.

However, as someone has already mentioned, this is about child-minding at every level.

purplecow1977

F5500 wrote: »

I would wager that a continuation of online classes with students at home would be both safer and more beneficial to education than what is proposed.

However, as someone has already mentioned, this is about child-minding at every level.

If I was a parent with a sensible head on my shoulders, I'm not sure I'd be too keen to send the kids back tbh.

meeeeh

F5500 wrote: »

I would wager that a continuation of online classes with students at home would be both safer and more beneficial to education than what is proposed.

However, as someone has already mentioned, this is about child-minding at every level.

And if you don't want to do it then maybe you picked the wrong profession.

And btw most experts I saw highlighted the importance of social interaction for kids. Looking at my own no the online learning would not be more beneficial.

ngunners

maynooth_rules wrote: »

There is nothing about students remaining in a single room in the document though is there? The fact that they are pushing for more double classes I assumed negated the idea of groups remaining in the same class. I don't see how, other than 1st years, they can stay in the same class

“As far as possible and practical, students would remain in the classroom and teachers would move between rooms.

As far as possible and practical students would be assigned to a main class cohort which would remain in the classroom for most subjects, with teachers moving between rooms.”

Yes, the document does repeat the same thing twice.

F5500

meeeeh wrote: »

And if you don't want to do it then maybe you picked the wrong profession.

Ah spare me :P

Benimar

purplecow1977 wrote: »

If I was a parent with a sensible head on my shoulders, I'm not sure I'd be too keen to send the kids back tbh.

I’m a parent, I’d like to think I have a sensible head on my shoulders and I’m certainly not keen on this plan!

I’d gladly have my kids in half the week rather than full time if it meant a (much) safer environment.

am_zarathustra

khalessi wrote: »

And they would be so right to go if they can afford to. This plan is an insult to teachers. They just do not give a damn once the kids are in school and the parents can work. By hook or crook is right, pity they didnt look after their voters

Polka_Dot wrote: »

I'm a 2nd year PME and, like most others in my class, live at home with my parents who are both in their mid 60s. I definitely don't want to risk potentially bringing anything home to them.

It's hard to do the PME financially without being forced to pay rent too.

I'd say a quarter of my staff are part time carers, live with someone immunocompromised, are not fully well themselves or a pregnant. I have a parent in a nursing home and I can categorically say I won't be putting my ability to see them at risk for any job. And I absolutely love my job and would normally do absolutely anything for the kids

The teacher holding off to retire are dead right to go, if I was in my 60s I can;t imagine having to read this rubbish and having my contribution to education in Ireland so poorly taught of and my own personal health being an afterthought.

am_zarathustra

Benimar wrote: »

I’m a parent, I’d like to think I have a sensible head on my shoulders and I’m certainly not keen on this plan!

I’d gladly have my kids in half the week rather than full time if it meant a (much) safer environment.

Another thing to consider is if I only have half a class, each student gets more attention, its much easier to teach to a really high standard and to get through work. You'd cover a nice bit more. So even tough they might be in less, even a three day week, the smaller classes and individual approach might actually work out roughly the same educationally if they are tipping away at home too

FishOnABike

F5500 wrote: »

A lot of head scratching will be done over the idea that students remain in a single room and teachers move about.

What about classes that are split in to HL/OL or streamed? Who is responsible for students in the 5 minutes it'll take for one teacher to leave, another to arrive?

It's totally unworkable for second level students to remain in a room and subject teachers move from class to class.

With the number of subject choice and level combinations it is quite possible that there would be no leaving certificate pupils who would remain in same room as each other.

Practical subjects need their own room. Even purely academic subjects need resources that can't easily be lugged around from room to room.

Pupils have moved from room to room for each subject because it works. Trying to turn a system that has worked for years on its head makes no sense.

Postgrad10

“There are 2,000 teachers who are currently registered with the Teaching Council but not working in the education sector, so we will be looking at that as a res“

Where’s that info coming from? Are the teaching council giving out data?

Mardy Bum

Did Norma make reference to an aide for the month of August to assist school management? I cannot find anything in the documents.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

What are the special measures put in place for vulnerable teachers and students?

Postgrad10

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Did Norma make reference to an aide for the month of August to assist school management? I cannot find anything in the documents.

I heard that too.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I heard that too.

Yes, was it a parent representative?

km79

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Did Norma make reference to an aide for the month of August to assist school management? I cannot find anything in the documents.

She definitely said that

Mardy Bum

Haylee Enough Locksmith wrote: »

What are the special measures put in place for vulnerable teachers and students?

Nothing for teachers unless you are VERY high risk which has very strict parameters.

r93kaey5p2izun

am_zarathustra wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/extra-secondary-teachers-ireland-coronavirus-5161504-Jul2020/

"Speaking at the post-Cabinet briefing, Minister Foley said: “Currently there are 1,300 teachers who are job-sharers, and for the first time we will lift the bar that would have been on them to do additional hours in school, which will go some way towards meeting the needs that might be there.

“There are 2,000 teachers who are currently registered with the Teaching Council but not working in the education sector, so we will be looking at that as a resource.

“I’m conscious that there are 300, for example, teachers who have trained in the UK, and we will look at speeding up their Teaching Council requirements to facilitate them returning.”

This shows a real lack of understanding from someone who was in a school. So many of the people on job sharing are carers or looking after young kids. Ii'd say we will be lucky to keep them at all with these suggestions

As one of the registered post primary teachers not working in teaching all I can say is :pac:

I've never been so glad to be gone from teaching in my life!

Postgrad10

“There are 2,000 teachers who are currently registered with the Teaching Council but not working in the education sector, so we will be looking at that as a res“

Where’s that info coming from? Are the teaching council giving out data?

wirelessdude01

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Did Norma make reference to an aide for the month of August to assist school management? I cannot find anything in the documents.

And a need for a vote of necessary.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Nothing for teachers unless you are VERY high risk which has very strict parameters.

Thanks, I am secondary school teacher. My 9y
ear old son is high risk. Was hoping for some reassurance.

Postgrad10

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

As one of the registered post primary teachers not working in teaching all I can say is :pac:

I've never been so glad to be gone from teaching in my life!

Simeon Mysterious Minibike, I’d say you’ll be getting a call !! They seem to have some list of 2000 deserters ! Where did that number come from I wonder ?

Chocolate

I was thinking of volunteering to take on the role of LWR in our school (primary school).

I'm an AP2/Special Duties Teacher/ B Postholder - call it what you want.
I figured I'd be willing to take on the role if the principal cleared me of my other duties for the year as it's obvious this role would take a huge amount of time. But as I read through the document, I felt I would be good at the job and I'd be willing to step up to the plate.

That is until I got to page 36 and read the following:
"Where the LWR/ Assistant LWR is a teacher (including a postholder), the 10 Croke Park
hours which can currently be used for planning on other than a whole school basis will be
utilised by the LWR and Assistant LWR to carry out their duties in that role."

That is an absolute insult. A measly 10 hours off our CP planning time! (But no doubt, the planning would still have to be done anyway!)

Needless to say, I will now not be volunteering for the role.
Talk about being taken for a ride!
You'd easily have spent 10/20 hours on that role in the first week alone (before you ever did any teaching.)

am_zarathustra

I'm not even sure what they are on about at secondary. Two hours a week of you timetable but basically only if you teach an easy subject to cover.....otherwise no.....and when on earth are staff going to vote on this. At best they will start at the end of August. Rubbish. There was 2 grand a piece to pay someone to type the grades into an online system

deiseindublin

I didn't see the LWR mentioned on PP doc. HOW would 2 hours a week cover it. That's basically prepping for one meeting and then attending it.

Mardy Bum

deiseindublin wrote: »

I didn't see the LWR mentioned on PP doc. HOW would 2 hours a week cover it. That's basically prepping for one meeting and then attending it.

Like most additional duties in the education sector, the only reason for taking it is the vague hope that one day you will get a promotion because of it.

s1ippy

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I was saying this today, how many are holding off for the 2%....you could end up with less teachers by November than we had last year easily with this nonsense

I know three permanent teachers in one school who drafted their resignations this evening. They were holding out until the government guidance because they had no confidence in their school management. Now that the government guidance is out and completely unacceptable, they have all decided to walk. The unions won't protect them either.

One won't be back in September, notice be damned and the other two are going to request that the BOM waive their required notice period due to the exceptional circumstances.

There are already interviews happening for two other positions in that school, so that's five permanent vacancies to be filled in one school with twelve classes.

If I were still a teacher I would be very seriously weighing up all my options.

Postgrad10 wrote: »

“There are 2,000 teachers who are currently registered with the Teaching Council but not working in the education sector, so we will be looking at that as a res“

Where’s that info coming from? Are the teaching council giving out data?

I'm still registered with the Teaching Council and there was a data breach in March where they emailed all my information (full name, number, pps, home address) to an unknown entity, so nothing new to see here really.

readysetgo

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Did Norma make reference to an aide for the month of August to assist school management? I cannot find anything in the documents.

its in the "Road Map", page 21.

Employing an aide to help with school reopening logistics
Funding will be provided to primary schools to employ an aide to assist with the physical and logistical arrangements necessary for school re-opening including movement of furniture, setting up hand sanitising stations, signage, training, engaging with parents and Funding will be provided to each primary school on a sliding scale to facilitate this work. The level of funding is based on the size of the schools and is set out in the following table:
From Enrolment Range
No. of Days
<300 2
301 -600 5
>600 10

readysetgo

i'm coming from a Primary perspective but the publications are ridiculous. not entirely useless, but fluffed up totally unnecessarily for the most part and then scant on very important bits and detail.

Laughable that there is still lots of 'aspirational' language in it; things that 'will be done' in August, i.e. online staff training not ready, procurement not ready.
Classroom diagrams are abyssmal, they could have summarised the whole return to Primary by just saying 'Keep all classes apart and wash your hands' because given the reality of school buildings and teacher ratios that is all that can be done.
Extra release days for principals?! what a joke. All the work for Covid return will be done in August. Release days are welcome though just for usual annual admin workload!!
No mention of any magic wand for getting subs, cleaners or plumbers at short notice and for august and during the year.
I'd love to know how much money the dept saved from march to june by having to pay for virtually no subs and all building/capital work and approvals grinding to a halt. no mention of those savings in the budget announced.
and 'paying' someone 10 croke park hours to be staff covid rep?! cant imagine many secret ballots being needed to separate interested parties...

And despite all this primary is actually better placed to return due to kids being in one class group at least. Secondary return document looks very sparse and missing even basic sense in how secondary schools and their subjects work at a practical level. (i know more subject guidance is on the way....in August, with the parent pamphlets!)I wouldnt swop to secondary teaching next year for all the Junes-Off in the world!!

maynooth_rules

Saw a post I think on twitter that wellbeing was mentioned 4 times as much as safety in the document 🀦*♂️
Wellbeing has been overused to the point that teachers roll their eye at the mention of it now.

shesty

purplecow1977 wrote: »

If I was a parent with a sensible head on my shoulders, I'm not sure I'd be too keen to send the kids back tbh.

The problem is that as parents we don't have much choice now.The teacher won't provide online learning (and I don't expect her to) and they have missed so much school and could stand to miss more over the winter, that I feel mine really have to go in.