School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

snor

I’m a teacher in a high demand subject. qualified for years but not currently working as a teacher.

Planned on going back but Teaching Council Put conditions on my registration. Basically wanted me to completed Droichead. In addition, TC would not register me for JC Science, despite having a degree and phD in Science. Also have a Masters in Business, but won’t register me To Teach any Business subject. They certainly don’t make things easy. Things will have to change.

am_zarathustra

That rubbish with needing 10 ECTS credits in all three sciences to teach kids to graph and understand a reading comprehension (the new course) is nonsense. Great money spinner for the colleges.

If it's any help, I teach Honours Maths without being fully qualified in maths. I had 10 hours a week of maths lecture in first and second year of college, and roughly a quarter of the rest of my degree. I then did a master almost exclusively I statistics. When I asked they said I didn't have two statistics modules, I tutored statistics in college to undergrads. When I looked it was going to cost 6 grand to sit an exam.....I did not need the lectures. This was the bad years in 2013-2015 so random subbing, much worse py etc so I just didn't! No principal ever had an issue employing me in maths and generally a month after I was in a school they were asking me to take more classes.

The teaching council are a joke, the person I was talking to couldn't have told you what discrete statistics were with a gun to their head

shesty

am_zarathustra wrote: »

That rubbish with needing 10 ECTS credits in all three sciences to teach kids to graph and understand a reading comprehension (the new course) is nonsense. Great money spinner for the colleges.

If it's any help, I teach Honours Maths without being fully qualified in maths. I had 10 hours a week of maths lecture in first and second year of college, and roughly a quarter of the rest of my degree. I then did a master almost exclusively I statistics. When I asked they said I didn't have two statistics modules, I tutored statistics in college to undergrads. When I looked it was going to cost 6 grand to sit an exam.....I did not need the lectures. This was the bad years in 2013-2015 so random subbing, much worse py etc so I just didn't! No principal ever had an issue employing me in maths and generally a month after I was in a school they were asking me to take more classes.

The teaching council are a joke, the person I was talking to couldn't have told you what discrete statistics were with a gun to their head

I looked into secondary school teaching after completing a 4 year Level 8 Engineering degree a few years ago.I was told not a hope, I would need to do a full time Maths course in DCU over a couple of years to "make up" the mathematical knowledge to become a maths teacher.The teaching element of training, I get that, no problem in my doing training in how to actually teach.The maths element - I was at a loss as to understand what 3 years of pure maths, in addition to a number of other conplex mathematical subjects didn't teach me.

I understand keeping standards high in education but it felt like a college money spinner to me.

combat14

the good news is that it looks like schools might not have to worry about the seasonal nature of covid 19 for winter

WHO warns Covid-19 pandemic is 'one big wave', not seasonal

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0728/1155918-coronavirus-global/

snor

am_zarathustra wrote: »

That rubbish with needing 10 ECTS credits in all three sciences to teach kids to graph and understand a reading comprehension (the new course) is nonsense. Great money spinner for the colleges.

If it's any help, I teach Honours Maths without being fully qualified in maths. I had 10 hours a week of maths lecture in first and second year of college, and roughly a quarter of the rest of my degree. I then did a master almost exclusively I statistics. When I asked they said I didn't have two statistics modules, I tutored statistics in college to undergrads. When I looked it was going to cost 6 grand to sit an exam.....I did not need the lectures. This was the bad years in 2013-2015 so random subbing, much worse py etc so I just didn't! No principal ever had an issue employing me in maths and generally a month after I was in a school they were asking me to take more classes.

The teaching council are a joke, the person I was talking to couldn't have told you what discrete statistics were with a gun to their head

Good to hear - thanks a mil. Agree Teaching Council are a joke. A friend of mine, same degree and H Dip and experience as k have, didn’t have to go through Droichead at all! Mad system.

snor

shesty wrote: »

I looked into secondary school teaching after completing a 4 year Level 8 Engineering degree a few years ago.I was told not a hope, I would need to do a full time Maths course in DCU over a couple of years to "make up" the mathematical knowledge to become a maths teacher.The teaching element of training, I get that, no problem in my doing training in how to actually teach.The maths element - I was at a loss as to understand what 3 years of pure maths, in addition to a number of other conplex mathematical subjects didn't teach me.

I understand keeping standards high in education but it felt like a college money spinner to me.

Exactly. Once you are a qualified teacher, you are obviously competent to teach and a level 8 degree Ensures your subject skills ensure competency also? A real Money spinner. Certainly puts people off going into/back to teaching - that’s for sure!

am_zarathustra

shesty wrote: »

I looked into secondary school teaching after completing a 4 year Level 8 Engineering degree a few years ago.I was told not a hope, I would need to do a full time Maths course in DCU over a couple of years to "make up" the mathematical knowledge to become a maths teacher.The teaching element of training, I get that, no problem in my doing training in how to actually teach.The maths element - I was at a loss as to understand what 3 years of pure maths, in addition to a number of other conplex mathematical subjects didn't teach me.

I understand keeping standards high in education but it felt like a college money spinner to me.

But also not qualified for Physics or Engineering probably. It's very frustrating.during the recession a few of my engineering friends would have thought about teaching. Two I can think of would have been amazing too but the hoops were prohibitive. Both would have an equal or better standard of maths than me. The new course is also so practical in parts I'd see an engineering degree as a massive advantage

am_zarathustra

snor wrote: »

Good to hear - thanks a mil. Agree Teaching Council are a joke. A friend of mine, same degree and H Dip and experience as k have, didn’t have to go through Droichead at all! Mad system.

I don't know where you are located but if you are in Dublin or anywhere near you would be absolutely fine. The subbing in good up here for PMEs too so you'll earn a bit of money, especially in the second year. I know it seems mad on here but I do completely love my job, I worked other jobs before I requalified, the department can generally be ignored. Even with all the nonsense I cant wait to see the kids again and get back to it

shesty

am_zarathustra wrote: »

But also not qualified for Physics or Engineering probably. It's very frustrating.during the recession a few of my engineering friends would have thought about teaching. Two I can think of would have been amazing too but the hoops were prohibitive. Both would have an equal or better standard of maths than me. The new course is also so practical in parts I'd see an engineering degree as a massive advantage

Nope, neither.Or applied maths.
What can you do.Their loss moreso than mine I suppose.

combat14

what we need in sept is intensive remote (blended) learning for all teachers even if this delays start of school by a week of two

the reality is that if there is a second wave at any stage teachers need to be adequately trained to teach online perhaps for the rest of the academic year if needs be

mirrorwall14

combat14 wrote: »

what we need in sept is intensive remote (blended) learning for all teachers even if this delays start of school by a week of two

the reality is that if there is a second wave at any stage teachers need to be adequately trained to teach online perhaps for the rest of the academic year if needs be

God please just let it be differentiated at least if we had to do something like that. I cannot sit through another inservice where I end up teaching everyone around me without learning anything new for myself

Polka_Dot

lulublue22 wrote: »

Well I would look at that as if there were robust plans in place to protect teachers then that would also protect the children. The current public narrative / gov stance ( as far as I can tell ) is that children are not vectors nor do the get the disease. So net result no SD in schools or use of face coverings. I understand your frustration and indeed the frustration of those who have health concerns but will not fall into the high risk category but as a group they are not large enough or vocal enough to count.

We're still only beginning to understand how the disease spreads/presents in children. A recent large study in Korea found that children aged 10-19 spread the disease just as much as adults do - https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

And yet secondary school students won't be required to wear masks

Teach30

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Going on the drawings of classroom scenarios, walking the room isn't possible anymore.

Homework will presumably be submitted by email, a picture of their copy page or whatever.

Dunno where an SNA will fit, or else they arrive in full PPE.

Any photocopied notes would have to be photocopied (handled with sanitised hands) and placed on desks before they arrive to the room

Don't know if desks also have to be wiped down in between each lesson

I hadn’t even considered that handing out photocopying would pose a risk.

It’ll be all fresh in our heads for the first week or two but I know myself I’ll get lax about things after a while, particularly when I’m tired, so seriously can’t see myself wiping down at end of day. When we are into the dark wet evenings in winter the last thing I’ll be doing is waiting to sanitise the room.

Also can foresee students in my school complaining to parents if teachers don’t sanitise in front of them. So I’ll be expecting complaints on that after a few weeks. They’ll be waiting to catch us out.

SligoBrewer

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/

In May, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated its guidelines to clarify that while COVID-19 spreads easily among speakers and sneezers in close encounters, touching a surface “isn’t thought to be the main way the virus spreads.” Other scientists have reached a more forceful conclusion. “Surface transmission of COVID-19 is not justified at all by the science,” Emanuel Goldman, a microbiology professor at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, told me. He also emphasized the primacy of airborne person-to-person transmission.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Teach30 wrote: »

I hadn’t even considered that handing out photocopying would pose a risk.

It’ll be all fresh in our heads for the first week or two but I know myself I’ll get lax about things after a while, particularly when I’m tired, so seriously can’t see myself wiping down at end of day. When we are into the dark wet evenings in winter the last thing I’ll be doing is waiting to sanitise the room.

Also can foresee students in my school complaining to parents if teachers don’t sanitise in front of them. So I’ll be expecting complaints on that after a few weeks. They’ll be waiting to catch us out.

Does sanitising have to happen every class change, every 40 mins or an hour?Presume students wud wipe down their own desks if that was the case.

KathleenGrant

SligoBrewer wrote: »

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/

But for every argument against airborne transmission there is one claiming there is evidence for it.
For every study showing children are non-transmitters there is at least one saying they do transmit.
For every study saying surfaces don't matter, there will be one saying it does.

Wouldn't know who or what to believe so it's up to everyone to act like all could be true and practice safety advice.

maynooth_rules

40 cases today. The only way the complete lassez faire attitude from DES yesterday might work is if the virus is virtually nil in community. Those numbers are worrying.

Icyseanfitz

maynooth_rules wrote: »

40 cases today. The only way the complete lassez faire attitude from DES yesterday might work is if the virus is virtually nil in community. Those numbers are worrying.

Just saw that too, this is an absolute disaster waiting to happen

am_zarathustra

Teach30 wrote: »

I hadn’t even considered that handing out photocopying would pose a risk.

It’ll be all fresh in our heads for the first week or two but I know myself I’ll get lax about things after a while, particularly when I’m tired, so seriously can’t see myself wiping down at end of day. When we are into the dark wet evenings in winter the last thing I’ll be doing is waiting to sanitise the room.

Also can foresee students in my school complaining to parents if teachers don’t sanitise in front of them. So I’ll be expecting complaints on that after a few weeks. They’ll be waiting to catch us out.

I spent today in the school printing out everything until October for the first of my classes and putting it in plastic folders to be given out the first day. I actually can't face trying to think about it everyday, when I'm back I know I won't have time to be organised.

Polka_Dot

KathleenGrant wrote: »

But for every argument against airborne transmission there is one claiming there is evidence for it.
For every study showing children are non-transmitters there is at least one saying they do transmit.
For every study saying surfaces don't matter, there will be one saying it does.

Wouldn't know who or what to believe so it's up to everyone to act like all could be true and practice safety advice.

What we know for certain is that the virus is spread by airborne transmission. The jury still seems to be out on surface transmission. Why, then, is there a focus on cleaning surfaces but not on wearing masks or face shields? Social distancing will not be possible in a majority of schools, therefore we need to address the primary method of transmission. Surface cleaning etc should of course still be done, and good hand hygiene practised. But put a load of children into a room/building together and the virus will spread.

Your point about not knowing what to believe is fair if you're a layperson hearing different headlines or facts all the time (which is the case for most of us) but our leaders should be paying attention to the most recent, robust data on the virus and following advice from the likes of the WHO and CDC.

For example, the study I quoted earlier about 10-19 year-olds spreading the disease as much as adults do was published by the CDC and looked at 59,073 contacts of 5,706 COVID-19 positive patients. That's a pretty huge and convincing dataset. Yet when I searched on Google for other information (I know Google is not the best source for scientific journals but it's what most people will have access to) I found this article with the reassuring-sounding title "No evidence of secondary transmission of COVID-19 from children attending school in Ireland, 2020." The numbers in that study? 3 adults and 3 children who had tested positive, and a combined total of 1,155 contacts. Of these, 2 people tested positive and were linked with one of the adult cases. They therefore concluded that since there were no secondary cases linked to the children, there was no evidence to suggest transmission. i have students in first year who could point out the flaws in that conclusion.

shesty

maynooth_rules wrote: »

40 cases today. The only way the complete lassez faire attitude from DES yesterday might work is if the virus is virtually nil in community. Those numbers are worrying.

Em, you will have to meander to the Covid forum for the full explanation but I believe for the last 4 Tuesdays they have published number of positive cases over the last 72 hours and not over the last 24 hours.Possibly something to do with making sure weekend tests are not missed or double-counted??It seems today's new cases are actually 16 in the last 24 hours.Not 40

Benimar

shesty wrote: »

Em, you will have to meander to the Covid forum for the full explanation but I believe for the last 4 Tuesdays they have published number of positive cases over the last 72 hours and not over the last 24 hours.Possibly something to do with making sure weekend tests are not missed or double-counted??It seems today's new cases are actually 16 in the last 24 hours.Not 40

That’s true, but the Sunday/Monday numbers are understated by 24 cases. The total of those was 23 (12 + 11) but should have been 47.

Monotype

Polka_Dot wrote: »

I found this article with the reassuring-sounding title "No evidence of secondary transmission of COVID-19 from children attending school in Ireland, 2020." The numbers in that study? 3 adults and 3 children who had tested positive, and a combined total of 1,155 contacts. Of these, 2 people tested positive and were linked with one of the adult cases. They therefore concluded that since there were no secondary cases linked to the children, there was no evidence to suggest transmission. i have students in first year who could point out the flaws in that conclusion.

Is that the same Ciara Kelly that pushed for the leaving cert to be cancelled?

Ngannou54

I had 31 in my 4th Class last year. We were crammed into the classroom...'pods' with sufficient spacing in between each is unworkable with a class and room of that size..there seems to be no mention at all of reducing even the largest of classes. Creating two classes of 15 and 16 in two classrooms would work but I just cannot see this 'pod' idea working with classes of 28+

Bobtheman

snor wrote: »

I’m a teacher in a high demand subject. qualified for years but not currently working as a teacher.

Planned on going back but Teaching Council Put conditions on my registration. Basically wanted me to completed Droichead. In addition, TC would not register me for JC Science, despite having a degree and phD in Science. Also have a Masters in Business, but won’t register me To Teach any Business subject. They certainly don’t make things easy. Things will have to change.

That sounds terrible. Why won't they register you for business subjects? Years ago schools were allowed to be more flexible in hiring. After ten years out of college how relevant is anybody's degree?
There are a lot of subjects at JC level that most teachers could have a go at.
Plus the standard you need to teach kids is lower than Third level anyway.
Id get onto union rep on teaching Council and push the issue. It's worth a shot.

Bobtheman

My advice get totally drunk between now and then. Never sober up. Thus you will be too hungover to tune into this. Its beyond our control. You will get communications from your local principal. Then and only then can you judge if the situation works for you.
Asti president on prime time tonight.

snor

Bobtheman wrote: »

That sounds terrible. Why won't they register you for business subjects? Years ago schools were allowed to be more flexible. After ten years out of college how relevant is anybody's degree?
There are a lot of subjects at JC level that most teachers could have a go at.
Plus the standard you need to teach kids is lower than Third level anyway.
Having a PhD in anything also doesn't mean you can teach!

Agree having a PhD doesn’t make you a good teacher but I have a first class hons H. Dip Ed (preceeded
PME) also.
To teach a subject. You need to have a degree in that subject the TC tells me - a Masters won’t give sufficient credits - Even to teach JC business.
I also have 2 years Geography in my degree(Science subject in TCD) But guess what - won’t register me to teach JC geography either.

They certainly don’t encourage you back to the classroom!

Polka_Dot

Monotype wrote: »

Is that the same Ciara Kelly that pushed for the leaving cert to be cancelled?

I'm not sure, I tried doing some digging but couldn't figure it out. It's a common name in fairness.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Prime Time done.

Mostly waffle bar the students they had speaking who addressed some of the realities on the ground

am_zarathustra

I wonder would the young girl with glasses have any interest in being Minister for Finance?