School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

Bananaleaf

Hi all

Hope we are all well. I sat down with the road map and a pot of tea yesterday evening. I made a note of all the questions it raised for me. 2 Microsoft Word pages full. The entire document managed to answer only one of my questions!!

The way I see it re: opening up again .... we have tried to explain to others how this might not work. Not many care. They just want the schools back up and running.

I think at this stage, all we can do is go back and let the inevitable happen.

We need to do our best to try of course. But we need to stop being martyrs to the cause. Varadkar basically said on national radio last week that sure it'll be grand cause teachers will shut up and put up.

Nobody outside of teaching has the first clue about the numbers of teachers who turn into work while sick, because we all keep going in. I'd imagine that shools themselves are vastly underestimating the level of cover they are going to need, unless they are a school where every staff member is already in the habit of calling in sick the minute they start sneezing.

Covid aside, it will be carnage in most schools with cold and flu virus alone if we all start staying home with a sniffle.

I know a lot of us used to go in with a cold, but we can't be doing that anymore.

Think of that day in your school where things are mental. We all have one or two days like that a year where a couple of things that are happening on the same day mean that numbers are really down.There are 2 matches on, 3 or 4 absences and an inservice or two. You are running to catch your tail all day, barely get a chance to use the toilet and probably spend half your lunch break doing photocopying.

Those days are going to become the norm, definitely from about mid september until Christmas at least. The longer that goes on, the more run down we start getting and the numbers of absent teachers just keeps rising.

That extra 1.3 of a teacher that the government are providing for each school is basically a super sub per school. Due to the nature of subbing, I'd say your super sub will be one of the first to get sick too.

We can return and we can try. But we must not put ourselves at risk or be martyrs for the cause. Our school was already working with a teacher deficit last year and I know we were not the only school doing so. We all know what happens behind the closed doors of a school when there aren't enough teachers. The only way it will be any different this year is if we start saying no and looking after ourselves.

Is there anyone who has read the roadmap and is interested in a chat about certain points? Would a new thread just to discuss roadmap be of interest to anyone?

mirrorwall14

I suggested perhaps it is time to close this or leave it for general discussion. And have two threads, one for primary and post primary for the document discussion and implementation only

ETA: I know our principal is at a principals meeting today so I’m hoping things will start to become clearer and we can get down to nitty gritty planning then

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

I'd imagine most of these will not equate to real discrete jobs, but in reality will mean extra hours for existing teachers in schools. It's just a con job really for the government to imply that there are loads of new teachers coming on stream. Because even if there were it's a shockingly inadequate number.

Yep, 1000 teachers sounds amazing as a soundbite in the media, but when you start adding more detail to it like there's more than 700 schools in the country and not all of them will even get one full teacher it's not that amazing.

And when they try and spin the 'there's 2000 teachers registered with the Teaching Council so we are going to tap into that source' when in reality if they wanted to teach in Ireland they would already be teaching, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

jimmytwotimes 2013

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yep, 1000 teachers sounds amazing as a soundbite in the media, but when you start adding more detail to it like there's more than 700 schools in the country and not all of them will even get one full teacher it's not that amazing.

And when they try and spin the 'there's 2000 teachers registered with the Teaching Council so we are going to tap into that source' when in reality if they wanted to teach in Ireland they would already be teaching, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

The 1000 was mentioned as being 600 actual teachers on Prime Time. Less than 1 per school, they got it all covered

rainbowtrout

I see job sharing teachers can sub in their own school this year for hours they wouldn't be on, and it will count towards incremental credit. DES must really know how screwed schools are.

ricero

Are the inspectors all going back into the classroom ? Has this been confirmed ?

Delighted if true. Should be top grades for all their students.

snor

What’s the story with the Guidance Counsellors promised? 120 I heard/read. How will these be distributed across schools? Then will certainly be needed I’d imagine.

F5500

ricero wrote: »

Are the inspectors all going back into the classroom ? Has this been confirmed ?

Delighted if true. Should be top grades for all their students.

I havent seen any official word of it, just an idea thrown out here.

It would be far too good to be true!

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And when they try and spin the 'there's 2000 teachers registered with the Teaching Council so we are going to tap into that source' when in reality if they wanted to teach in Ireland they would already be teaching, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

Exactly. They say that as if it's a given they're all champing at the bit to go back teaching. You'll have plenty of people who'll have maintained registration simply because the TC make it hell on earth in terms of paperwork for anyone who has to re-register. Doesn't mean they're desperate to join the classroom again particularly at a time when it'll be so chaotic.

Random sample

snor wrote: »

What’s the story with the Guidance Counsellors promised? 120 I heard/read. How will these be distributed across schools? Then will certainly be needed I’d imagine.

They’re part of the 1080.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I see job sharing teachers can sub in their own school this year for hours they wouldn't be on, and it will count towards incremental credit. DES must really know how screwed schools are.

Again, this has its limits. If people wanted to be there full time they wouldn't be on career break.

Random sample

Allowing job sharers to sub is a good idea. I just hope strategic timetablers don’t give them a random period 9 class after 5 frees.

wirelessdude01

Random sample wrote: »

They’re part of the 1080.

Though it was 1080 teachers plus 120 guidance.

Random sample

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Though it was 1080 teachers plus 120 guidance.

I’m not sure where I read that they were included.

jimmytwotimes 2013

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Though it was 1080 teachers plus 120 guidance.

No, the 1080 includes guidance and psychologists

Teacher number bout 600

Rosita

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Think of that day in your school where things are mental. We all have one or two days like that a year where a couple of things that are happening on the same day mean that numbers are really down.There are 2 matches on, 3 or 4 absences and an inservice or two./quote]

I realise that there are teachers in schools for whom "the match" is the most important thing they'll deal with in the course of the year but I think in the context of the challenges in schools and in wider society this stuff should be shelved this year. Not fair that the same people will have to put their shoulders to the wheel in the school all the time.

Same with pointless inservices.

beveragelady

F5500 wrote: »

I havent seen any official word of it, just an idea thrown out here.

It would be far too good to be true!

I had an inspection last year, a small little fella who was clearly very wary of my class of first years, all of whom were behaving impeccably. He addressed them briefly and his voice was shaking. Despite his obvious inability to communicate with teenagers he still had the cajones to tell me everything I was doing wrong. In the difficult months ahead I will find comfort in the notion that he has to stand in front of classes all day, the only adult in the room, in terror of perfectly harmless students. It's a lovely thought, but I'd hate for anybody I know to have him as a teacher.

wirelessdude01

Rosita wrote: »

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Think of that day in your school where things are mental. We all have one or two days like that a year where a couple of things that are happening on the same day mean that numbers are really down.There are 2 matches on, 3 or 4 absences and an inservice or two./quote]

I realise that there are teachers in schools for whom "the match" is the most important thing they'll deal with in the course of the year but I think in the context of the challenges in schools and in wider society this stuff should be shelved this year. Not fair that the same people will have to put their shoulders to the wheel in the school all the time.

Same with pointless inservices.

Funny how I think that sport plays a very important part for some children in helping them to get through school but I agree that all inter school activities might possibly have to go the wayside this school year.

Treppen

Micheal Martin and Norma Foley were teachers weren't they?

Maybe they can take out of Leo's book and roll up the old sleeves.

Rosita

Treppen wrote: »

Micheal Martin and Norma Foley were teachers weren't they?

Maybe they can take out of Leo's book and roll up the old sleeves.

But that would just leave them in the office answering the phone like he did.

rainbowtrout

ricero wrote: »

Are the inspectors all going back into the classroom ? Has this been confirmed ?

Delighted if true. Should be top grades for all their students.

No there's some waffle in the guidelines released about the inspectorate being their to offer support in an advisory role this year to schools. Presumably they've figured out that they'll be given short shrift if they enter a school and start whinging about diverse teaching strategies. Can't be made go back into the classroom as they are not seconded.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

Again, this has its limits. If people wanted to be there full time they wouldn't be on career break.

Oh I agree, I'd imagine it will only work for teachers on job share who are doing, say three days a week and only to make themselves available for subbing during the free slots on those days - if they want to do it.

Bobtheman

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m so torn on this. On the one hand I’m a parent and I want my child back at school and like every other parent my childcare is planned around the school. I’m sick of teaching online. I want to be back in school with my students teaching and learning properly and not some farce of blended learning

However I also cannot agree with the ridiculous scenario that would mean we would be the only work place in the country where the rules don’t apply? What makes us immune that we don’t need PPE or social distancing? I can’t go to the hairdressers without social distancing and PPE but I can get up close and personal with 30 students at a time....

Its not true to say we will be the only workplace in the country to not practice social distancing. Ask around.

Bobtheman

beveragelady wrote: »

I had an inspection last year, a small little fella who was clearly very wary of my class of first years, all of whom were behaving impeccably. He addressed them briefly and his voice was shaking. Despite his obvious inability to communicate with teenagers he still had the cajones to tell me everything I was doing wrong. In the difficult months ahead I will find comfort in the notion that he has to stand in front of classes all day, the only adult in the room, in terror of perfectly harmless students. It's a lovely thought, but I'd hate for anybody I know to have him as a teacher.

I recall meeting an SEC inspector who told me that I was the most disorganised person she ever met. I looked her in the eye and said " I always wanted to be top of something" She wasn't impressed. Unless you are in a fee paying school these inspection reports don't get as much attention as you think. But I always find it amusing how many colleagues treat them as the gestapo.

Bananaleaf

Rosita wrote: »

I realise that there are teachers in schools for whom "the match" is the most important thing they'll deal with in the course of the year but I think in the context of the challenges in schools and in wider society this stuff should be shelved this year. Not fair that the same people will have to put their shoulders to the wheel in the school all the time.

Same with pointless inservices.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Funny how I think that sport plays a very important part for some children in helping them to get through school but I agree that all inter school activities might possibly have to go the wayside this school year.

I was just using matches as an example. The point I was making was that pre-Covid there would be an odd day where there could be 2 or 3 teachers gone on a match, another 2 or 3 on inservice and 2 or 3 out sick. I always remember those days as being dreadfully draining, usually days where I would come home and just sleep or have to take a migraine tablet because the day was so long and stressful. Days where I might have also had to take 2 TY classes into the one room cause there was nobody free to cover. And those days you could have had 5-6 staff members who were feeling unwell but were in school, working.

I'm saying that between the threat of Covid and the fact that if you have a cold you will have to stay at home now, we could be facing into these kinds of days a lot more regularly. It won't matter that the 3 that should have been at the match are there and the 3 that should have been at inservice are there. The 6 feeling unwell will be at home, and probably for a couple of days too

FishOnABike

Bobtheman wrote: »

I don't blame her personally. She is only there a, month. Its the set up of the department. They have outsourced running schools to the voluntary sector and now its coming back to haunt them.
Instead of bull**** programmes the last ten years a real effort to get class sizes down would have been better.
I really wonder where schools will get builders?

Maybe the DoES thinks they can get all the Construction Studies teachers back a bit early and do a few nixers?

FishOnABike

SligoBrewer wrote: »

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/

And yet no facemasks are required in stuffy, crowded rooms? The mind boggles.

Postgrad10

Part of the governments plan to alleviate sub teacher issue. PME Student Assistance Fund.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/cc1fd-1m-in-supports-for-professional-master-of-education-pme-students-to-assist-with-financial-costs/

km79

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Part of the governments plan to alleviate sub teacher issue. PME Student Assistance Fund.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/cc1fd-1m-in-supports-for-professional-master-of-education-pme-students-to-assist-with-financial-costs/

Reversing the money grab to make it a two year course would also help

wirelessdude01

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Part of the governments plan to alleviate sub teacher issue. PME Student Assistance Fund.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/cc1fd-1m-in-supports-for-professional-master-of-education-pme-students-to-assist-with-financial-costs/

As predicted. Send them into schools full-time.