School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

am_zarathustra

km79 wrote: »

Reversing the money grab to make it a two year course would also help

This was a disaster from the start. I did my PGDE the year before they made it two years. I worked hours in the school, had a weekend job, and came out with a 1st. It did not need to be two years, I've have much rather timetables team teaching/observation for the first year to support behaviour management and planning.

It was also a huge socioeconomic issue, SUSI has only recently become available in certain circumstances. Young people from backgrounds where money in scarcer and access to credit is not a guarantee where completely locked out, even though we desperately need more of them as role models.

I'm loath to say it but Harris's profile and access has meant he seems to be getting good traction in the new ministry. It's a step in the right direction

am_zarathustra

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As predicted. Send them into schools full-time.

Does it say that somewhere? I assume most of them will be flat out with subbing in Dublin as usual but I'd like to see the government acknowledge that that is where a lot of the "capacity" they are talking about is coming from.

km79

am_zarathustra wrote: »

This was a disaster from the start. I did my PGDE the year before they made it two years. I worked hours in the school, had a weekend job, and came out with a 1st. It did not need to be two years, I've have much rather timetables team teaching/observation for the first year to support behaviour management and planning.

It was also a huge socioeconomic issue, SUSI has only recently become available in certain circumstances. Young people from backgrounds where money in scarcer and access to credit is not a guarantee where completely locked out, even though we desperately need more of them as role models.

I'm loath to say it but Harris's profile and access has meant he seems to be getting good traction in the new ministry. It's a step in the right direction

100% agree
No amount of theory prepares you for your first full day in the class room .

Postgrad10

They could do with setting up a fund for those who are teaching , renting in cities , and disadvantaged as a result.

TheValeyard

km79 wrote: »

100% agree
No amount of theory prepares you for your first full day in the class room .

By the end of the first class you realise 98% of theory was BS

wirelessdude01

Postgrad10 wrote: »

They could do with setting up a fund for those who are teaching , renting in cities , and disadvantaged as a result.

Similar to the pay bands in London.

am_zarathustra

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Similar to the pay bands in London.

the 1M announced will help but it's probably not enough and won't solve the immediate crisis coming this winter. Hopefully it's only the start. I agree with regards the Dublin tax, rent is completely mad. We hire a few teachers early every summer who then leave when they get a job closer to home. We got a Home Ec teacher from Dublin and we may as well have hired a unicorn!

I still think paying overtime might be the only way out of this. I think we have the teachers we have, that's it. I have taught a few hours over my timetable a few times in my career for various reasons. It's definitely tough, mad preparation has to be done in advance but for a year you might entice young staff with very little nightlife paying big rent to do it. In particular subjects this might work.

SligoBrewer

Postgrad10 wrote: »

They could do with setting up a fund for those who are teaching , renting in cities , and disadvantaged as a result.

Costs of living are a factor for all workers, not just teachers tbf.
The Government throwing money at teachers to keep us quiet would be better off building new houses for all.

wirelessdude01

Beginning to see announcements from secondary schools that they are implementing mask wearing for everyone.

am_zarathustra

That doesn't solve the problem of having to staff our schools this year.

A lot of subs went home from Dublin to country areas, we lost 2. They aren't coming back, live at home rent free and do a bit of subbing in the local school or get a 10 hour contract. They are way better off. We had randomers with degrees in the school this years, woeful supervision, no work done in class when work was left, kids were playing music and dancing around, letting kids go early repeatedly. This is not acceptable legally in a normal time, never mind a pandemic. The staffing issue has to be solved by October, probably utilizing staff we already have, we have to stop pretending there is a magic teacher tree. By Ocotber we will see retirements and most urban schools will have used up S and S

Rosita

TheValeyard wrote: »

By the end of the first class you realise 98% of theory was BS

I always remember a workshop when I was doing the teaching Dip where we were doing the micro-teaching and the lecturer played the "disruptive" student by tapping a pen against the desk...........the mad thing! Have to laugh thinking back on it from the perspective of an actual classroom.

I've seen actual physical fights in class, people throwing books, bags, equipment out the window, pulling chairs from under the guys in front, pushing their desks up forcefully against his seat, putting a drawing pin on his chair, choosing a Kahoot team name which suggests his Ma is into what might be delicately described as non-mainstream sexual activities, tying unopenable knots in sleeves of jumpers/coats, to name just some of the stuff I've encountered over the years.

Thankfully they haven't yet moved onto the really extreme stuff like pen-tapping. But at least I have been prepared.

maynooth_rules

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Beginning to see announcements from secondary schools that they are implementing mask wearing for everyone.

Only right. Supposedly ASTI are going to push for it. There will have to be a tough approach on it too, because you will have difficult parents saying their poor Jonny doesn't like masks

r93kaey5p2izun

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Costs of living are a factor for all workers, not just teachers tbf.
The Government throwing money at teachers to keep us quiet would be better off building new houses for all.

But there is a de facto Dublin allowance in private sector salaries.

Any increase in subbing or actual posts availability outside Dublin this year due to Covid arrangements will just exacerbate the crisis in Dublin, at a time more subs needed there too. Dublin schools will be a mess this year. And nobody will be willing to do casual subbing unless living at home in Dublin, because if schools close suddenly again they will be left with no pay and not entitled Covid payment. You can't commit to rent on that.

Rosita

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Beginning to see announcements from secondary schools that they are implementing mask wearing for everyone.

Not saying it shouldn't happen but it will surely make school an utterly joyless and uncommunicative experience.

wirelessdude01

Rosita wrote: »

Not saying it shouldn't happen but it will surely make school an utterly joyless and uncommunicative experience.

But ultimately safer place for everyone. Which is more important given the current state of things? Being safe or being able to see a mouth?

shesty

Rosita wrote: »

Not saying it shouldn't happen but it will surely make school an utterly joyless and uncommunicative experience.

To be fair, many things are joyless and uncommunicative these days, the way things are both in and out of work.It's not just reserved for teaching.

combat14

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Only right. Supposedly ASTI are going to push for it. There will have to be a tough approach on it too, because you will have difficult parents saying their poor Jonny doesn't like masks

no mask no little johnny

shesty

I would go for no mask, no doctor's letter (NOT parent's note)....no little Johnny.

am_zarathustra

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

But there is a de facto Dublin allowance in private sector salaries.

Any increase in subbing or actual posts availability outside Dublin this year due to Covid arrangements will just exacerbate the crisis in Dublin, at a time more subs needed there too. Dublin schools will be a mess this year. And nobody will be willing to do casual subbing unless living at home in Dublin, because if schools close suddenly again they will be left with no pay and not entitled Covid payment. You can't commit to rent on that.

Completely agree, its going to be a bloodbath in secondary schools. There is not anything near the capacity to staff any of these solutions. I couldn't, in good conscience even tell a young teacher to stay in Dublin. Also we frequently share subs across schools, two weeks here, 4 there. This is hardly ideal either.....though I don't expect to have the option of a subject expert for two weeks anyway...


If hospitals couldn't staff themselves or we suggested that anyone with a degree can go and administer medication people would go mad.

I honestly can't see any other option than removing the overtime restriction in Post Primary and hope that the cost of living in Dublin encourages young staff to take on a few extra hours. Giving them a few weeks notice of this would help with planning. We have quite a young staff but I'm sure some other schools will be in serious trouble with retirements in October....there won't be an available sub in Dublin in any subject by that stage I'd imagine

petejmk

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Only right. Supposedly ASTI are going to push for it. There will have to be a tough approach on it too, because you will have difficult parents saying their poor Jonny doesn't like masks

https://www.asti.ie/news/asti-requests-minister-to-seek-review-of-medical-advice-for/

am_zarathustra

petejmk wrote: »

https://www.asti.ie/news/asti-requests-minister-to-seek-review-of-medical-advice-for/

It's good to see this. I can see a lot of our students volunteering to wear them anyway but how awful that they will be protecting the people in their class who can't be bothered. At secondary level this is manageable. Not easy but managable

scrubs33

There will have to be a policy around masks if they do become mandatory or else you'll have all sorts of weird and not so wonderful designs appearing in front of you. Also discipline will be hugely important: no mask no entry. Unfortunately senior management in our place have it as a very low priority (usually AOB at staff meetings) but I think something like this might actually provoke a response.

Polka_Dot

scrubs33 wrote: »

There will have to be a policy around masks if they do become mandatory or else you'll have all sorts of weird and not so wonderful designs appearing in front of you. Also discipline will be hugely important: no mask no entry. Unfortunately senior management in our place have it as a very low priority (usually AOB at staff meetings) but I think something like this might actually provoke a response.

I can just picture it now, school branded official uniform masks :pac:

wirelessdude01

scrubs33 wrote: »

There will have to be a policy around masks if they do become mandatory or else you'll have all sorts of weird and not so wonderful designs appearing in front of you. Also discipline will be hugely important: no mask no entry. Unfortunately senior management in our place have it as a very low priority (usually AOB at staff meetings) but I think something like this might actually provoke a response.

I had dealings with a sportswear company at the end of the school year and was told at that time that they had orders from secondary schools both north and south of the border for over 50k cloth masks.

SligoBrewer

2 huge clusters in places where social distancing is impossible to implement.
Guess where else that will be.

shesty

If the Dail isn't back til Sept 15th but cases are rising, will they just go reopen schools anyway?
I am not a teacher lads, and my kids are small, but I am finding the uncertainty of the whole thing very stressful.It is not just the possibility of homeschooling again, it is my child's education, i cannot give her the classroom environment.Reopening schools means worrying endlessly about infections and do we visit grandparents and who do we mix with.
Very worried.

Random sample

shesty wrote: »

If the Dail isn't back til Sept 15th but cases are rising, will they just go reopen schools anyway?
I am not a teacher lads, and my kids are small, but I am finding the uncertainty of the whole thing very stressful.It is not just the possibility of homeschooling again, it is my child's education, i cannot give her the classroom environment.Reopening schools means worrying endlessly about infections and do we visit grandparents and who do we mix with.
Very worried.

I’m not an expert, but I don’t think cases will keep rising. I think there will be outbreaks in different settings, which will be managed as they happen. Depending on the size of the setting, the numbers will vary. A factory with people working in close proximity, and staff living in at least two different direct provision centres was prime for an outbreak. I am hoping that as outbreaks like that happen similar settings will learn from them and improve practices.

The cabinet will make decisions about reopening (schools and wider society), on advice from nphet. The dail does not need to be sitting for any of that to happen. They’re only involved if new legislation needs to be passed.

Rosita

shesty wrote: »

If the Dail isn't back til Sept 15th but cases are rising, will they just go reopen schools anyway?
.

I'd say they'll open them anyway. Rising cases will be explained away as "clusters" and off we'll go.

lulublue22

Rosita wrote: »

I'd say they'll open them anyway. Rising cases will be explained away as "clusters" and off we'll go.

I think to be fair rising cases at the moment are clusters. Community transmission is very low. Of course it remains to be seen if this continues to be the case. The gov seem fairly confident that schools reopening won’t impact community transmission.

Bobtheman

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think to be fair rising cases at the moment are clusters. Community transmission is very low. Of course it remains to be seen if this continues to be the case. The gov seem fairly confident that schools reopening won’t impact community transmission.

I'd take anything the Government says with a pinch of salt particularly in education. Firstly it's an evolving situation. Secondly the state has a dismissal record on planning anything and is often grossly out of touch with situation on the ground.
But this was always the way. Those of us old enough to remember the 1980s recall being told there was no major tax evasion. An amnesty in 1988 was meant to yield 30m. The actual yield was over 300 million. Barry Desmond (Labour /the elder lemon) was laughed off many a Today tonight show for saying tax evasion was rife.
But yet the avg voter continued to vote FF/FG