David McWilliams sprouting nonsense again

Fred Cryton

This time he wants the Irish state to somehow obtain Equity options in the multinationals, and use that to build a sovereign wealth fund


He thinks because these companies pay less than a 12.5% effective corporation tax here, they would willingly give us the difference as equity.



Let's pull this apart for a moment.


Why would they do this? No-one gives away an equity stake in their business without a very compelling reason to do this. Is he seriously suggesting we can threaten these companies into giving us their wealth?



Secondly, in very few places do companies actually pay the full headline corporation tax rate. Many big companies in France for example, pay an effective rate of only 6%, compared to a headline rate of 30%+.


McWilliams showing himself up again as a populist charlaton and chancer. Just as Trump is what stupid people think a successful businessman looks like, McWilliams is what stupid people think an economist looks like.



If the Irish State wants an ownership stake in these companies, it can go out and buy it like everyone else.

Piriz

can you add a link to his comments?

Fred Cryton

Paywall
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-it-s-time-for-a-new-irish-economic-model-1.4276819?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fdavid-mcwilliams-it-s-time-for-a-new-irish-economic-model-1.4276819

CBear1993

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This time he wants the Irish state to somehow obtain Equity options in the multinationals, and use that to build a sovereign wealth fund


He thinks because these companies pay less than a 12.5% effective corporation tax here, they would willingly give us the difference as equity.



Let's pull this apart for a moment.


Why would they do this? No-one gives away an equity stake in their business without a very compelling reason to do this. Is he seriously suggesting we can threaten these companies into giving us their wealth?



Secondly, in very few places do companies actually pay the full headline corporation tax rate. Many big companies in France for example, pay an effective rate of only 6%, compared to a headline rate of 30%+.


McWilliams showing himself up again as a populist charlaton and chancer. Just as Trump is what stupid people think a successful businessman looks like, McWilliams is what stupid people think an economist looks like.



If the Irish State wants an ownership stake in these companies, it can go out and buy it like everyone else.

What’s your opinions on Paschal Donohoe as a finance minister? Listened to McWilliams podcast two weeks ago and he didn’t seem to have much time for him as far as economics were concerned, but a nice fellow

Rodney Bathgate

Has Ruth Coppinger died and been reincarnated as David McWilliams?

donvito99

David McWilliams - the man famous for predicting 2 of the last 28 recessions.

Silentcorner

Only in Ireland would that man make a living...what is it with us and spoofers!!!

one world order

Trump is a successful businessman and a very good leader for a country. Ability to renegotiate trade agreements, stop manufacturing jobs offshoring abroad, reduce regulations on small businesses, tax incentives for startups, tax rebates for creating jobs, etc.

McWilliams is a media guy and so talks nonsense. If a multinational had political interference taking a slice of equity ownership, they would leave Ireland, maybe head back to the US where their corporation tax was cut from 35% to 21% and so are more competitive on the international stage than before.

CBear1993

David has a big enough following. Lots of people pay €5/10+ per month on his Patreon platform from what I see and hear. He also does economics course on there which he advertises on podcast

SHOVELLER

A Garda Inspector tells McWilliams that Rovers fans organised and took part in the Love Ulster riots. He not only believes this laughable nonsense but he prints it.

I get the impression that this happens a lot with him. People of that ilk tend to believe their own hype after a while. Another example would be Eddie Hobbs.

SHOVELLER

one world order wrote: »

Trump is a successful businessman and a very good leader for a country. Ability to renegotiate trade agreements, stop manufacturing jobs offshoring abroad, reduce regulations on small businesses, tax incentives for startups, tax rebates for creating jobs, etc.

:D:D:eek:

Fred Cryton

CBear1993 wrote: »

What’s your opinions on Paschal Donohoe as a finance minister? Listened to McWilliams podcast two weeks ago and he didn’t seem to have much time for him as far as economics were concerned, but a nice fellow

Donohoe is a pharamacist by training right?



Most Irish politicians are of poor calibre when it comes to economics, there's not a single TD with an expertise in the subject as far as i'm aware.



What's important is can they make good evidence based judgements when the data is put forward by the team around them.

antimatterx

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Donohoe is a pharamacist by training right?



Most Irish politicians are of poor calibre when it comes to economics, there's not a single TD with an expertise in the subject as far as i'm aware.



What's important is can they make good evidence based judgements when the data is put forward by the team around them.

Donohoe studied Economics and Politics. I think he's our best finance minister in a long time. You could argue he has cost him a lot of money going into politics, as he became a Director at Procter & Gamble in his 20s. He also gave up job security.

Richard Bruton also has an economics background, and would have been finance minister instead of Noonan (a teacher like) if he didn't attempt to become FG leader.

Silentcorner

antimatterx wrote: »

Donohoe studied Economics and Politics. I think he's our best finance minister in a long time. You could argue he has cost him a lot of money going into politics, as he became a Director at Procter & Gamble in his 20s.

Richard Bruton also has an economics background, and would have been finance minister instead of Noonan (a teacher like) if he didn't attempt to become FG leader.

Donohue is actually impressive, I didn't know that about him, that is public service.

antimatterx

Silentcorner wrote: »

Donohue is actually impressive, I didn't know that about him, that is public service.

Indeed, he has a very impressive background and I think he is a very safe per of hands to have control over finance.

He should probably be the next FG leader.

The J Stands for Jay

one world order wrote: »

Trump is a successful businessman and a very good leader for a country. Ability to renegotiate trade agreements, stop manufacturing jobs offshoring abroad, reduce regulations on small businesses, tax incentives for startups, tax rebates for creating jobs, etc.

LOL

aido79

donvito99 wrote: »

David McWilliams - the man famous for predicting 2 of the last 28 recessions.

How far back are you going with 28 recessions?

Outkast_IRE

aido79 wrote: »

How far back are you going with 28 recessions?

For the David McWilliams haters on this forum , dont apply logic. Rather than engage in a lively debate most of them will just say the idea doesnt work and leave it at that.



To be honest by starting threads like this they are actually doing him a favour and advertising his article. Its hidden behind a paywall that 99% of the country wont be able to access but these lads have brought attention to it.

ExMachina1000

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This time he wants the Irish state to somehow obtain Equity options in the multinationals, and use that to build a sovereign wealth fund


He thinks because these companies pay less than a 12.5% effective corporation tax here, they would willingly give us the difference as equity.



Let's pull this apart for a moment.


Why would they do this? No-one gives away an equity stake in their business without a very compelling reason to do this. Is he seriously suggesting we can threaten these companies into giving us their wealth?



Secondly, in very few places do companies actually pay the full headline corporation tax rate. Many big companies in France for example, pay an effective rate of only 6%, compared to a headline rate of 30%+.


McWilliams showing himself up again as a populist charlaton and chancer. Just as Trump is what stupid people think a successful businessman looks like, McWilliams is what stupid people think an economist looks like.



If the Irish State wants an ownership stake in these companies, it can go out and buy it like everyone else.

Never a truer word written

wally1990

antimatterx wrote: »

Donohoe studied Economics and Politics. I think he's our best finance minister in a long time. You could argue he has cost him a lot of money going into politics, as he became a Director at Procter & Gamble in his 20s. He also gave up job security.

Richard Bruton also has an economics background, and would have been finance minister instead of Noonan (a teacher like) if he didn't attempt to become FG leader.

I actually quite like Paschal, I find him a easy and interesting listen.

At a basic level, I think he has great common sense to our economy and overall economics and really has our finances at heart.

Now... I can't say that for many others at all, but paschal I do like.

I listen to the Mcwilliams podcast, and do agree with another poster he is a bit of a '' media'' guy with these' great ideas'

I like Mcwilliams too, but don't necessarily agree with everything.

EmptyTree

aido79 wrote: »

How far back are you going with 28 recessions?

To a time before recessions began

Silentcorner

I think he is from a very insular part of this country and he never manages to beat that insular mindset it always gets the better of him....he can be interesting at times, but I'd trust my tea leaves quicker than his economic predictions.

Chinasea

I try hard each time to listen to what he has to say. I drift, I loose I interest. Paid fence sitter.

Give me Karl Dieter anyday. Come back please. We need you urgently.

jam_mac_jam

donvito99 wrote: »

David McWilliams - the man famous for predicting 2 of the last 28 recessions.

He is an economist not a fortune teller.

He was one of the few who warned us about relying too much on property and in that I think he has been proven right.

I don't agree with him on many of his points but I think there is a misconception of what an economists job is.

FVP3

donvito99 wrote: »

David McWilliams - the man famous for predicting 2 of the last 28 recessions.

FFS. The phrase should go the other way. As in "predicted 28 of the last 2 recessions". Obviously

As you phrased it he would have to be 300+ years old to have failed to predict 26 of the last 28 recessions, and incredibly optimistic about the economy

( and yet, 7 thanks for that).

FVP3

Anyway its a bit odd that people hate on McWilliams who was successful in predicting what was going to happen in 2008, while eulogising the "proper" economists who did not.

Mr Meanor

FVP3 wrote: »

Anyway its a bit odd that people hate on McWilliams who was successful in predicting what was going to happen in 2008, while eulogising the "proper" economists who did not.

To be honest an awful lot of people from all walks of life knew the 2008 recession was coming long before he said anything, they just chose not to see it or in some cases, if they could, insulated themselves from it.

Manach

Mostly in agreement with OP. Companies run on profits for their shareholders, with any pretence of being caring/value signalling being a facade to gull consumers into a mis-placed sense of virtue. These companies would leave Ireland overnight if they got a better deal, hence the low taxes with high taxes on the workers who do not have that mobility.

purifol0

FVP3 wrote: »

Anyway its a bit odd that people hate on McWilliams who was successful in predicting what was going to happen in 2008, while eulogising the "proper" economists who did not.

Many people tried to warn us about the banks in 2008 and they were shouted down and in some cases publicly ridiculed.

Prime example Morgan Kelly

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Kelly_(economist)

There was so much money at stake, no one on the make was going to inform Joe Public.

CageWager

This is hardly something to get worked up over. The chap is throwing out some creative ideas, some big picture thinking. Same goes for moving Dublin port that he’s always going on about. Maybe some of it would work, some of it wouldn’t, but at least he’s coming the table with ideas. I‘d venture that expansive thinking is something we have sorely lacked in this country since time immemorial.

purifol0

Few weeks ago on his podcast McWilliams was advocating borrowing more into the national debt and insisting that it could be paid off easily because of inflation. Now I don't know as much about economics but if theirs that much inflation what happens to anyones who isn't rich or lucky enough to own property and land. Your cash savings suddenly ain't worth what they used to