David McWilliams sprouting nonsense again

Fred Cryton

CageWager wrote: »

This is hardly something to get worked up over. The chap is throwing out some creative ideas, some big picture thinking. Same goes for moving Dublin port that he’s always going on about. Maybe some of it would work, some of it wouldn’t, but at least he’s coming the table with ideas. I‘d venture that expansive thinking is something we have sorely lacked in this country since time immemorial.

How about suggesting stuff that actually makes sense and is workable...such as reducing the high marginal income tax rate and freezing/reducing the bloated social welfare budget.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

How about suggesting stuff that actually makes sense and is workable...such as reducing the high marginal income tax rate and freezing/reducing the bloated social welfare budget.

How about we collect the (extremely reasonable) taxes from corporations...

CBear1993

And make c*nts go to work that SHOULD be at work of any sort instead of lay abouts doing wee cash jobs here and there when they aren’t pissing about collecting their dole. You’d soon see less young lads entering the drug trade too as they’d have to get out and get a job with no dole to keep them afloat until a job comes up for the local dealer

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

How about we collect the (extremely reasonable) taxes from corporations...

We'd be far better off building an economy on indigenous companies like the rest of the developed world instead of depending on foreign corporations and tax scams....

ExMachina1000

What about Jonathan Sugarman. Where did he ever go

Fred Cryton

Deleted User wrote: »

How about we collect the (extremely reasonable) taxes from corporations...

We do. These companies pay all the taxes they are legally required to pay to the Irish state.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

We do. These companies pay all the taxes they are legally required to pay to the Irish state.

Nonsense.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

We'd be far better off building an economy on indigenous companies like the rest of the developed world instead of depending on foreign corporations and tax scams....

I totally agree.

purifol0

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What about Jonathan Sugarman. Where did he ever go

He was a whisltblower, you don't think RTE would give him a platform do you. Like everyone else who goes against the establishment he has to take to social media and earn a crust in the private sector.

blanch152

CBear1993 wrote: »

What’s your opinions on Paschal Donohoe as a finance minister? Listened to McWilliams podcast two weeks ago and he didn’t seem to have much time for him as far as economics were concerned, but a nice fellow

McWilliams is the guy who dreamed up the bank bailout, gave the idea to Brian Lenihan in his kitchen, which later resulted in this country bankrupting itself.

If I hear him suggest something ever since, my initial reaction is to consider the opposite idea to be better.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

How about we collect the (extremely reasonable) taxes from corporations...

What do you mean by that?

Ireland has one of the highest proportions in the world of its tax receipts coming from corporations and one of the lowest coming from people on the average wage.

Them's the facts.

ToxicPaddy

As has already been said by a few here, I do like David McWilliams and some of his articles are an interesting read but I don't agree or believe everything he says.

There is definitely an element of sensationalist media attention grabbing comments sometimes from him but some of his income is derived from media outlets and that's how you grab headlines and get into those media outlets and get paid. Yes I know he's also a faculty member of at least 1 x university in Dublin, but I'm sure he also makes a tidy sum from the media outlets too.

This idea of going after multi-nationals for an equity share is pipedream stuff really though as while these multinationals have a nice setup in Ireland, they would shut up shop and walk away very quickly if the government started down that path which is essentially threatening their bottom line.

Yes it would be nice to get a few quid extra in taxes from them but having 50k fairly well paid of their employees with a good chunk of them on the higher tax bracket and spending their earnings in the Irish economy is not a bad alternative either.

washman3

blanch152 wrote: »

McWilliams is the guy who dreamed up the bank bailout, gave the idea to Brian Lenihan in his kitchen, which later resulted in this country bankrupting itself.

If I hear him suggest something ever since, my initial reaction is to consider the opposite idea to be better.

You need to go back and check the facts again.
McWilliams certainly did'nt 'dream up' the infamous bank bailout.
And he totally disagreed with NAMA.

Mysterypunter

I know nothing about economics, but if you spend more than you earn you will be in dept. In school I would be in the handball alley instead of the economics class, but this dude is always shouting the economy is going to collapse, and when it does he says he told us all, it was bound to happen. The problem I had with him was he is on tv and radio all the time with the one trick, and after 4 or 5 years of his predictions, it collapses once and he claims to be right. So I looked at some of his specific advice, and he told everyone to invest in the Argentinan economy as they were an example to the world. A month later their economy collapsed, people were living in cardboard boxes, and a trillion pesos was worth about 2 quid. He could not have been more incorrect if he told us night was day. From this I concluded he was a guesser, and put him in the same bracket as that ****ing conman Eddie Hobbs, wonder where he is now?

Silentcorner

I heard a great expression from an old school Labour politician years ago...I have used this one before.

"An economist is like a one eyed javelin thrower....they hit the mark every now and again but always they keep everyone on their toes"

completedit

The role of economists is not to predict the future.

Tony EH

one world order wrote: »

Trump is a successful businessman and a very good leader for a country. Ability to renegotiate trade agreements, stop manufacturing jobs offshoring abroad, reduce regulations on small businesses, tax incentives for startups, tax rebates for creating jobs, etc.

Boards.ie needs a "This is a load of bollocks" emoji.

Successful businessman now means rich boys running companies into the ground more than once.

yosser hughes

blanch152 wrote: »

McWilliams is the guy who dreamed up the bank bailout, gave the idea to Brian Lenihan in his kitchen, which later resulted in this country bankrupting itself.

If I hear him suggest something ever since, my initial reaction is to consider the opposite idea to be better.

You're not great on facts. Peter Bacon did that.
McWilliams is a self publicist and tends to exaggerate and 'simplify' but he's not the worst.

There's a long list of bluffers in this country who are still suckling at the teat of the taxpayer and suffered no consequences for their venal behaviour during the last bubble.
Micheal Martin and Eamon Ryan were in the cabinet back that approved the bank guarantee, look at them now.
The people in this country need to look at themselves too.

JohnnyFlash

antimatterx wrote: »

Donohoe studied Economics and Politics. I think he's our best finance minister in a long time. You could argue he has cost him a lot of money going into politics, as he became a Director at Procter & Gamble in his 20s. He also gave up job security.

Richard Bruton also has an economics background, and would have been finance minister instead of Noonan (a teacher like) if he didn't attempt to become FG leader.

Paschal Donohoe is from a traditional Northside working class family (unlike some of our most vocal ‘working class’ socialists). One of the first in his extended family to go to university, and graduated from Trinity with a 1st in economics and finance. Moved to the UK and became a director of P&G. It’s not an exaggeration to say he would be CEO of a multinational by now. A man of extraordinary intellect and integrity. Even his most vocal opposition critics like the lad

saabsaab

completedit wrote: »

The role of economists is not to predict the future.

Just as well. As someone once said they can only tell you why something went wrong only after it has.


I like McWilliams


'He was the first economist to see that the Irish boom was nothing more than a credit bubble and one of the very few to accurately predict it would all end in a monumental crash with bank failures, negative equity and rising unemployment and emigration'

jams100

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How about we collect the (extremely reasonable) taxes from corporations...

We collected 10 billion corporation tax in 2018, that accounted for 19% of our total tax take.

Thats a decent chunk of money. I'd be more worried about the sustainability of these taxes. Ie when global economy tanks (which it currently is) this significant tax take is at risk of imploding.

Corporation tax and tourism will be the new construction sector when we look back in 2 or 3 years in my opinion

dd973

McWilliams is a bloviating gob****e noxiously in love with himself and his own voice, his weekly podcasts are about an hour long, the interesting bits or where he actually gets to the point comprise about 10 minutes of them.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think he is from a very insular part of this country and he never manages to beat that insular mindset it always gets the better of him....he can be interesting at times, but I'd trust my tea leaves quicker than his economic predictions.

Dalkey?

Poor_old_gill

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This time he wants the Irish state to somehow obtain Equity options in the multinationals, and use that to build a sovereign wealth fund


He thinks because these companies pay less than a 12.5% effective corporation tax here, they would willingly give us the difference as equity.



Let's pull this apart for a moment.


Why would they do this? No-one gives away an equity stake in their business without a very compelling reason to do this. Is he seriously suggesting we can threaten these companies into giving us their wealth?



Secondly, in very few places do companies actually pay the full headline corporation tax rate. Many big companies in France for example, pay an effective rate of only 6%, compared to a headline rate of 30%+.


McWilliams showing himself up again as a populist charlaton and chancer. Just as Trump is what stupid people think a successful businessman looks like, McWilliams is what stupid people think an economist looks like.



If the Irish State wants an ownership stake in these companies, it can go out and buy it like everyone else.

Give me an example of an economist that you like?

I like some of McWilliams stuff, although I dont think this idea is feasible, and I think he is able to logically follow through a train of thought with regard to economic ideas.

He's not always right but I think to be so dismissive of him is equally as idiotic as hanging on his every word.

Poor_old_gill

donvito99 wrote: »

David McWilliams - the man famous for predicting 2 of the last 28 recessions.

The joke usually is - famous for predicting 28 of the last 2 recessions- and has been used on just about every economist known to man

To answer the question as to why companies might agree to this.

Equity options are just that - options. If the state does not exercise the options then the company pockets the premium which is the price of buying the option.

Full disclosure i have not read the details but just giving very general explanation.

Poor_old_gill

Chinasea wrote: »

I try hard each time to listen to what he has to say. I drift, I loose I interest. Paid fence sitter.

Give me Karl Dieter anyday. Come back please. We need you urgently.

Paid fence sitter?

This thread has been started due to the perceived radical nature of his recent suggestion.

Add to this the fact that he has been publicly calling out the Minister of Finance and it's hard to see him as a fence sitter

Poor_old_gill

Mysterypunter wrote: »

I know nothing about economics, but if you spend more than you earn you will be in dept. In school I would be in the handball alley instead of the economics class, but this dude is always shouting the economy is going to collapse, and when it does he says he told us all, it was bound to happen. The problem I had with him was he is on tv and radio all the time with the one trick, and after 4 or 5 years of his predictions, it collapses once and he claims to be right. So I looked at some of his specific advice, and he told everyone to invest in the Argentinan economy as they were an example to the world. A month later their economy collapsed, people were living in cardboard boxes, and a trillion pesos was worth about 2 quid. He could not have been more incorrect if he told us night was day. From this I concluded he was a guesser, and put him in the same bracket as that ****ing conman Eddie Hobbs, wonder where he is now?

Eddie was flogging apartments in Bulgaria - to compare McWilliams, or any even moderately relevant economist to him is ludicrous.

CrankyHaus

I line McWilliams but you can't take his stuff seriously.
He's more of an Economics Entertainer than an Economist.
He often takes his ideas from others and presents them to his audience without much vetting.
An example would be his advocacy of moving Dublin Port "north" which is taken from the old PD proposal to move it to Meath.
The problems with this idea are obvious to anyone who bothers to look at a map; there is no comparable natural harbour near Dublin; certainly not on the Meath coast.
Clearly McWilliams didn't bother.

CrankyHaus

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Eddie was flogging apartments in Bulgaria - to compare McWilliams, or any even moderately relevant economist to him is ludicrous.

Losing his investor's money in Detroit real estate was above and beyond, even by the standards of Irish Financial Gurus.