Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

Overheal

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

While a tragic incident I feel on balance the officer used the only option left open to him.

I can think of several others that I have seen police employ live in the field - ie. not hollywood stuff. Tactics they employ all the time that you can see on Cops or LivePD (or, well you could).

Suspect was running away and at most 1 shot of the taser was a threat but the continuum of force was a leap to lethal shooting. We can all appreciate why the cops reacted the way they did but it's not to say another cop wouldn't have let him keep distance just so the taser wasn't in play, go wear him down in a chase he's drunk af he wasn't going far and the taser wasn't capable of doing more damage was it, 2 extra shots at most, and that's if a drunk man can figure out how to re-prime it. Corner him in some local patch of woods or whatever and send a dog in if he can't be talked out. You already have his car.

Overheal

Stablelad123 wrote: »

It is relevant since he was currently on probation. Probably why he resisted arrest.

It explains why he resisted arrest but doesnt justify escalation of force in itself.

Rezident

If you fight with armed police you are risking death, that's why I am always extra polite to them. No need to justify it, it cannot be justified, but fighting with the police - any police - is just stupid.


Fight with Russian police = beating/death
Fight with Chinese police = beating/death


Why would you fight against armed police? Are you that stupid!? Maybe you need an @ss whooping?

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

It explains why he resisted arrest but doesnt justify escalation of force in itself.

His choice was to escalate, it wasn't justified but he kept escalating till his death.

lawrencesummers

Rezident wrote: »

If you fight with armed police you are risking death, that's why I am always extra polite to them. No need to justify it, it cannot be justified, but fighting with the police - any police - is just stupid.


Fight with Russian police = beating/death
Fight with Chinese police = beating/death


Why would you fight against armed police? Are you that stupid!? Maybe you need an @ss whooping?

That’s probably why you should maybe run away from them then....

Danzy

It's like a sizable portion of the protesters and activists aren't even comfortable with African American communities being policed, never mind better policed.

I can understand the activists, they don't have to live with the consequences, they are safe in Suburbia.

Police are resigning in large numbers across America, the ones left will be reluctant to interact with black communities because even arresting criminals is now enough to make you notorious. So black areas will be less patrolled and the already out of control criminality in many of those areas will spread and grow, resulting in more poverty and death.

punisher5112

3 shots doesn't mean all or any hit their target....

Obviously in this circumstance he was hit but I didn't see how many.

He was escaping a lawful arrest and attacked the officers, what people don't realise is the cops don't know if he has a knife or gun on him and the big risk was he had one of their weapons which he attempted to use numerous times, he then could easily have grabbed the actual lethal firearm off one.

If he complied he wouldn't be dead.

He chose how to play the game and lost.

Don't get me wrong I'm not getting enjoyment out of people being killed but sometimes there is no choice.

Danzy

NotMOL wrote: »

I get what you're saying but I would say someones past records do come into play, he was clearly a violent person if he served 7 years for beating his kids and hasn't changed much if as soon as he get's released from jail he then goes on to assault a police officer, steal his weapon and then try to shoot him.

I think Froogs point is that his past shouldn't have had, from the police view, any bearing on his shooting. I agree with that.

From my point of view it doesn't change the validity of his shooting but I can think lucky break for his kids and neighbours.

7 years for beating your kids, torture is a more apt word.

Even if he wasn't as big a **** bag as one could find his actions that night left no choice but his being shot.

declanflynn

punisher5112 wrote: »

3 shots doesn't mean all or any hit their target....

Obviously in this circumstance he was hit but I didn't see how many.

He was escaping a lawful arrest and attacked the officers, what people don't realise is the cops don't know if he has a knife or gun on him and the big risk was he had one of their weapons which he attempted to use numerous times, he then could easily have grabbed the actual lethal firearm off one.

If he complied he wouldn't be dead.

He chose how to play the game and lost.

Don't get me wrong I'm not getting enjoyment out of people being killed but sometimes there is no choice.

'How to play the game'

patsman07

If a cop, in any country, decides that he/she is going to arrest you, the best thing to do is allow that to happen. Even if you know your innocent/if you think the cop is being racist, the best place to argue those points is in the station in the presence of your solicitor. Arguing with a policeman/garda, who has already decided that you need to be arrested, is counter productive.

Beginning a tussle with a policeman, particularly an armed policeman, is dicing with death. The policeman cannot allow himself to become overpowered in case his gun is taken from him and used against him. In the United States, where there are 300 million guns in circulation, a policeman has to assume that many of the people that he/she comes into contact with is armed.

Policemen are human, they will make fatal mistakes. The data shows that these mistakes in the US are not disproportionately affecting the black community.

Varik

The Guardian is slipping.

"Protesters set fire to Wendy's "

Too hard now to distance the destruction from the "peaceful" protesters so they're not even trying.

1800_Ladladlad

declanflynn wrote: »

A lot of rednecks around

Danzy

patsman07 wrote: »

If a cop, in any country, decides that he/she is going to arrest you, the best thing to do is allow that to happen. Even if you know your innocent/if you think the cop is being racist, the best place to argue those points is in the station in the presence of your solicitor. Arguing with a policeman/garda, who has already decided that you need to be arrested, is counter productive.

Beginning a tussle with a policeman, particularly an armed policeman, is dicing with death. The policeman cannot allow himself to become overpowered in case his gun is taken from him and used against him. In the United States, where there are 300 million guns in circulation, a policeman has to assume that many of the people that he/she comes into contact with is armed.

Policemen are human, they will make fatal mistakes. The data shows that these mistakes in the US are not disproportionately affecting the black community.

You would be called Hitler for saying that and you could be severely beaten for it as well.


It's completely rational though but the thing about this is that rationality is now toxic, go for the most bizarre aims, defund the police, abolish the Courts, give every black prisoner a retrial, pay reparations etc etc.

It's like the lunacy of the Swampies is spreading, the more unworkable your aims the better.

Overheal

Rezident wrote: »

If you fight with armed police you are risking death, that's why I am always extra polite to them. No need to justify it, it cannot be justified, but fighting with the police - any police - is just stupid.


Fight with Russian police = beating/death
Fight with Chinese police = beating/death


Why would you fight against armed police? Are you that stupid!? Maybe you need an @ss whooping?

tldr "America is doing nothing wrong by being as oppressive as china or russia"

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

His choice was to escalate, it wasn't justified but he kept escalating till his death.

I'm referring to the cop but of course you knew that.

Varik

Rezident wrote: »

If you fight with armed police you are risking death, that's why I am always extra polite to them. No need to justify it, it cannot be justified, but fighting with the police - any police - is just stupid.


Fight with Russian police = beating/death
Fight with Chinese police = beating/death


Why would you fight against armed police? Are you that stupid!? Maybe you need an @ss whooping?

Wouldn't have to go to the extreme of China/Russia, plenty of shootings in many parts of Europe. Any school trip I was on we got told not to make trouble with the police as they weren't as toothless as they are at home.

15 year old not too long ago shot in Italy, he had a fake gun and tried to rob a watch.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

I'm referring to the cop but of course you knew that.

Lol, I did but you knew that as well.


The cops didn't escalate. They probably were too easy at the start, aware of the political impact.

He drew a weapon on armed men and he paid the price

He probably didn't want to go back to jail, people who torture kids have very rough times there.

Dravokivich

Stablelad123 wrote: »

It is relevant since he was currently on probation. Probably why he resisted arrest.

The charges on the table don't match the charges on the text. It's setup to rile us.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

The cops didn't escalate.

How anyone can say this is utterly beyond me. Going from exchange of taser fire to unilateral dispensation of lethal force is escalation.

Esse85

patsman07 wrote: »

If a cop, in any country, decides that he/she is going to arrest you, the best thing to do is allow that to happen. Even if you know your innocent/if you think the cop is being racist, the best place to argue those points is in the station in the presence of your solicitor. Arguing with a policeman/garda, who has already decided that you need to be arrested, is counter productive.

.

All very good logic, unfortunately logic goes out the window when people consume alcohol and/or drugs, alcohol in this case, their decision making criteria changes and common sense diminishes.
This guy would still be alive if he hadn't chosen to drink alcohol.

UsBus

I watched the full body am footage. It took a lot to wake Brooks, no way did he just have 1.5 drinks, he was well out of it. First cop was extremely professional towards Brooks. Second cop carried out the sobriety test which he failed. Resisting arrest and taking the taser off the cop before aiming it at him. What did he expect.
So many of these incidents involve resisting arrest.? If you're being arrested and start a struggle and run with a stolen police taser what do you expect..

UsBus

Overheal wrote: »

How anyone can say this is utterly beyond me. Going from exchange of taser fire to unilateral dispensation of lethal force is escalation.

Police tried to hand cuff, Brooks escalated. What gave him the right to resist a lawful arrest.?

Overheal

Esse85 wrote: »

All very good logic, unfortunately logic goes out the window when people consume alcohol and/or drugs, alcohol in this case, their decision making criteria changes and common sense diminishes.
This guy would still be alive if he hadn't chosen to drink alcohol.

It's easy to sweep problems under the rug that way isnt it.

Overheal

UsBus wrote: »

Police tried to hand cuff, Brooks escalated. What gave him the right to resist a lawful arrest.?

Nothing gave him the right why do you need to resort to deflections to make a point?

Brooks escalated to fleeing/resisting/firing the taser. Quite a bit of escalation. Cops from here said let's do you a few degrees of escalation better, skip the pursuit and dispatch you with lethal force.

froog

patsman07 wrote: »

The data shows that these mistakes in the US are not disproportionately affecting the black community.

that's just not true. unarmed black people are much more likely to be killed by police during an interaction than white people.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

https://www.statista.com/chart/21872/map-of-police-violence-against-black-americans/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634878/

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

How anyone can say this is utterly beyond me. Going from exchange of taser fire to unilateral dispensation of lethal force is escalation.

Exchange of fire is not an option 😲

Will I Am Not

UsBus wrote: »

I watched the full body am footage. It took a lot to wake Brooks, no way did he just have 1.5 drinks, he was well out of it. First cop was extremely professional towards Brooks. Second cop carried out the sobriety test which he failed. Resisting arrest and taking the taser off the cop before aiming it at him. What did he expect.
So many of these incidents involve resisting arrest.? If you're being arrested and start a struggle and run with a stolen police taser what do you expect..

Everyone knows what can happen in a situation like that. It’s like the people that go to parts of the Middle East or Asia and get caught with enough weed for a couple of spliffs... Just don’t do it.

froog

the guy being;

1. a moron
2. a criminal

still doesn't excuse him getting killed needlessly. not sure where people are going with those arguments.

1800_Ladladlad

UsBus wrote: »

Police tried to hand cuff, Brooks escalated. What gave him the right to resist a lawful arrest.?

His ethnicity........

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Exchange of fire is not an option 😲

I agree they shouldn't have exchanged fire with him. They should have let him run a couple minutes and drunk himself into the ground.