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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

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    #632
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    He attacked the police and took their weapon and used it against them. The officers were absolutely justified in using lethal force against him, and I imagine will likely win a wrongful dismissal lawsuit when it all shakes out.

    And if he had taken pepper spray instead of a taser? Would he deserve to have been shot dead?

    What if the officer had a nut allergy and the guy was throwing peanuts at him as he was running. Would he also deserve to be shot dead?

    What about if he had taken the officer's baton and was running? I mean he could have thrown it at the officer and hit him in the eye or something... would he deserve to be shot dead in that case?

    Or in your mind is anyone who dares to resist arrest deserving of being lethally shot?


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    #633
    Pythagorean
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    The journal .ie had a recent report about Garda detectives surrounded by 15 youths who attacked them, and tried to throw them under an approaching car. One of the detectives said that he felt that one of the assailants had attempted to take his gun. So we in this country may not be as immune to these situations as we might like to think we are.


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    #634
    Luxxis
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Luxxis


    ronivek wrote: »
    And if he had taken pepper spray instead of a taser? Would he deserve to have been shot dead?

    What if the officer had a nut allergy and the guy was throwing peanuts at him as he was running. Would he also deserve to be shot dead?

    What about if he had taken the officer's baton and was running? I mean he could have thrown it at the officer and hit him in the eye or something... would he deserve to be shot dead in that case?

    Or in your mind is anyone who dares to resist arrest deserving of being lethally shot?

    But he didn't. He took the TASER and they knew that.


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    #635
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Danzy wrote: »
    Statistical evidence shows us he would be more likely to be shot dead.

    wrong as i showed earlier. unarmed black people are much more likely to be shot dead.


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    #636
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    ronivek wrote: »
    And if he had taken pepper spray instead of a taser? Would he deserve to have been shot dead?

    What if the officer had a nut allergy and the guy was throwing peanuts at him as he was running. Would he also deserve to be shot dead?

    What about if he had taken the officer's baton and was running? I mean he could have thrown it at the officer and hit him in the eye or something... would he deserve to be shot dead in that case?

    Or in your mind is anyone who dares to resist arrest deserving of being lethally shot?

    Pointing the weapon was the deciding factor. Resisting arrest is mild.


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    #637
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    NotMOL wrote: »
    You are missing the point which has been made a million times ITT, Ireland and America are completely different when it comes to guns. Cops are regularly shot at and killed in America.

    Also you and others defending him keeping leaving out the point were he was drunk behind the wheel, you make it seem like he was just having a nap outside the burger shop
    how many are shot dead in an average year


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    #638
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    froog wrote: »
    wrong as i showed earlier. unarmed black people are much more likely to be shot dead.

    As I showed you, per similar arrests numbers whites die more than blacks.


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    #639
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,494 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    froog wrote: »
    what if it was a baton he stole and waved about? is shooting him dead still justified?

    You attack a cop with a weapon, expect to get shot. Would you any less dead if I crack you across the head with a baton?

    Michael Brown attacked a cop and tried to take his gun, yet folks acted like he was gunned down in the street. The majority of shootings by cops in the US are justifiable, something folks like you are no doubt loath to admit.


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    #640
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Pythagorean wrote: »
    The journal .ie had a recent report about Garda detectives surrounded by 15 youths who attacked them, and tried to throw them under an approaching car. One of the detectives said that he felt that one of the assailants had attempted to take his gun. So we in this country may not be as immune to these situations as we might like to think we are.

    They were afraid to use it as they would end up been the ones in trouble which is nuts....


    Remember watching a clip of the troubles up north and two British soldiers in a car were traveling between bases I believe, they had their side arms but when surrounded by a non and taken out of the car and the guns used against them, they didn't shoot at anyone and died for holding back.


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    #641
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    NotMOL wrote: »
    You are missing the point which has been made a million times ITT, Ireland and America are completely different when it comes to guns. Cops are regularly shot at and killed in America.

    Also you and others defending him keeping leaving out the point were he was drunk behind the wheel, you make it seem like he was just having a nap outside the burger shop

    i never even commented on him drunk driving. because its completely irrelevant to whether it was right to shoot him dead.


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    #642
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Luxxis wrote: »
    But he didn't. He took the TASER and they knew that.

    They're all "less lethal" forms of weapon. In fact many departments require an officer who carries a taser to have been tasered at least once in order to certify. My point is all of these options are very similar in terms of potential damage.


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    #643
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    ronivek wrote: »
    And if he had taken pepper spray instead of a taser? Would he deserve to have been shot dead?

    What if the officer had a nut allergy and the guy was throwing peanuts at him as he was running. Would he also deserve to be shot dead?

    What about if he had taken the officer's baton and was running? I mean he could have thrown it at the officer and hit him in the eye or something... would he deserve to be shot dead in that case?

    Or in your mind is anyone who dares to resist arrest deserving of being lethally shot?
    brilliant questions, shows how wrong the police were


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    #644
    NotMOL
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭NotMOL


    Luxxis wrote: »
    I'll add to that by saying if you dont want run in's with the cops, dont break the law.

    Especially when you're on parole


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    #645
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    You attack a cop with a weapon, expect to get shot. Would you any less dead if I crack you across the head with a baton?

    Michael Brown attacked a cop and tried to take his gun, yet folks acted like he was gunned down in the street. The majority of shootings by cops in the US are justifiable, something folks like you are no doubt loath to admit.
    this guy was running away not attacking the cop


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    #646
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Danzy wrote: »
    As I showed you, per similar arrests numbers whites die more than blacks.

    whites die more than blacks because there is much more of them in america. its the probability of an unarmed person getting killed by police you want to examine. which is what i showed you. it's really not rocket science.


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    #647
    NotMOL
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭NotMOL


    declanflynn wrote: »
    how many are shot dead in an average year

    38 officers shot to death in the space of 50 weeks

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/2019-officers-killed-trnd/index.html


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    #648
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Pythagorean wrote: »
    The journal .ie had a recent report about Garda detectives surrounded by 15 youths who attacked them, and tried to throw them under an approaching car. One of the detectives said that he felt that one of the assailants had attempted to take his gun. So we in this country may not be as immune to these situations as we might like to think we are.

    I think the level of training however is quite different. The videos of US police in comparison to the UK ones are completely different. Even when the UK police are being attacked they are drawing back into a defensive position with the baton up. In a keep it up you will get a smack way rather than attacking at the slightest provocation.

    The US police are more like an occupying force then a police force. The UK police are de escalating a situation.

    It's completely different. One of the reasons is guns, other reasons is competence at their jobs, training, accountability.

    I have seen American cops screaming and roaring at people like babies, no authority other then their guns. They look panicked and fearful. Its just completely different.


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    #649
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    They were afraid to use it as they would end up been the ones in trouble which is nuts....


    Remember watching a clip of the troubles up north and two British soldiers in a car were traveling between bases I believe, they had their side arms but when surrounded by a non and taken out of the car and the guns used against them, they didn't shoot at anyone and died for holding back.
    Those 2 were dead no matter what they did mate


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    #650
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    You attack a cop with a weapon, expect to get shot. Would you any less dead if I crack you across the head with a baton?

    Michael Brown attacked a cop and tried to take his gun, yet folks acted like he was gunned down in the street. The majority of shootings by cops in the US are justifiable, something folks like you are no doubt loath to admit.

    you're fine with someone getting shot dead for waving a baton around. okay.


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    #651
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,494 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    declanflynn wrote: »
    this guy was running away not attacking the cop

    Except for the part where he turned around and fired at the cop again, at which point he was shot. You keep forgetting to include that detail.

    Running away doesn't magically make you immune from the consequences of your actions. If I attack a cop with a weapon, he doesn't lose the right to respond because I show a clean pair of heels. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


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    #652
    NotMOL
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭NotMOL


    froog wrote: »
    i never even commented on him drunk driving. because its completely irrelevant to whether it was right to shoot him dead.

    But you make it seem like he was innocent and the cops were called for him just having a sleep outside the burger shop


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    #653
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,494 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    froog wrote: »
    you're fine with someone getting shot dead for waving a baton around. okay.

    I'm fine with someone getting shot for attacking a cop with a weapon, which is what happened here.


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    #654
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    NotMOL wrote: »
    38 officers shot to death in the space of 50 weeks

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/2019-officers-killed-trnd/index.html
    how many by black guys


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    #655
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Except for the part where he turned around and fired at the cop again, at which point he was shot. You keep forgetting to include that detail.

    Running away doesn't magically make you immune from the consequences of your actions. If I attack a cop with a weapon, he doesn't lose the right to respond because I show a clean pair of heels. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    he should 'respond'


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    #656
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,460 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    That's your opinion.

    Imo it was warranted.

    What would have happened if he wasn’t killed that he had to be put down then and there?


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    #657
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    NotMOL wrote: »
    But you make it seem like he was innocent and the cops were called for him just having a sleep outside the burger shop
    he was asleep outside a burger shop


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    #658
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,460 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    And what if he uses the taser on another officer or breaks into a home......

    Seriously he was under arrest they can't be letting people run off with their weapons.

    Breaks into a home? He was at a Wendy’s parking lot attended by two cops what home was he going to break into?


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    #659
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,494 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Overheal wrote: »
    What would have happened if he wasn’t killed that he had to be put down then and there?

    What would have happened if he hadn't attacked two cops?


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    #660
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    declanflynn wrote: »
    he was asleep outside a burger shop

    He was in the drive thru lane, asleep, drunk at the wheel.


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    #661
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    NotMOL wrote: »
    But you make it seem like he was innocent and the cops were called for him just having a sleep outside the burger shop

    i think you're confusing me with another poster. the guy clearly drunk drove, resisted arrest and stole the cops taser. also has previous convictions. he deserved to be arrested and jailed/prosecuted. he didn't deserve to be shot dead.


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