Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

Danzy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

God forbid anyone points a nerf gun or a water pistol at you someday.

That hardly warrants lethal self defense.

Danzy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

They are also trained to only use force when there is an imminent threat to life.

Exactly and that is what played out.

weldoninhio

ronivek wrote: »

Some people have a genuine fear of police officers. This guy was both on parole/probation and had numerous negative interactions with police; so whether you consider his perspective justified or not I think most would agree he was afraid of the consequences of the encounter.

Add alcohol and whatever other substances he may have been on to the mix and nobody really knows what kind of state of mind he was in.

However there would have been zero issue if the officers were trained and skilled enough to subdue him correctly in the first place. People resisting arrest is not a new thing; it happens regularly and they should be able to deal with it appropriately without having to resort to lethal force.

He was a criminal who knew he was going back to prison. He’d a fear of facing the consequences of his own actions.

ronivek

Danzy wrote: »

Hugh was a volunteer engaged in an operation, he knew the risks and accepted them.

Brooks knew weapons go both ways as well. Maybe he accepted it but a lot don't.

If you can't see the difference between:
1) Planning and executing an armed robbery with multiple AK-47s in the cold light of day (and firing shots at Gardai), and...
2) Fighting with two cops while drunk and they try to handcuff you; then grabbing a tazer and running away in the heat of the moment.

Then I don't think there's much more to say.

Danzy

ronivek wrote: »

If you can't see the difference between:
1) Planning and executing an armed robbery with multiple AK-47s in the cold light of day (and firing shots at Gardai), and...
2) Fighting with two cops while drunk and they try to handcuff you; then grabbing a tazer and running away in the heat of the moment.

Then I don't think there's much more to say.

I'd see one as part of a conflict and an assertion of the right to self determination but that is not relevant to the thread.

If you shoot at others, shots will come back, especially in high stress situations.

weldoninhio

Overheal wrote: »

You have some imagination. How was he going to steal a car and drive it anywhere with the cops right behind him? Any bystander in the drive thru with half a brain cell had their doors locked.

Why did he take a taser? Did it make him run faster, leap higher?

weldoninhio

I Am Nobody wrote: »

Just curious after reading up on this event.But why didn't the other officer deploy his taser,since the other officer's one was taken?I know hindsight and all,but surely that other officer would have considered it instead of allowing him to be shot in the back.Or am I confused on the situation?

The other officer had already deployed his three shots.

ExMachina1000

JJayoo wrote: »

From watching the clip and how easy he was throwing the cops around it's pretty clearly they hadn't a clue how to subdue him.

Two adult male cops should be able to subdue random drunk guy.

I have seen videos of cops getting training at Gracie BJJ schools on the most efficient/safe way to control and detain an individual, this type of training should be mandatory.

Need to give the cops the training and tools for the job

Should Gardai have the same level of training?

Rodin

All he had to do was not resist legitimate arrest, not throw punches at armed police and not steal a cop's taser...

This does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as George Floyd's murder

Donald Trump

JJayoo wrote: »

From watching the clip and how easy he was throwing the cops around it's pretty clearly they hadn't a clue how to subdue him.

Two adult male cops should be able to subdue random drunk guy.

I have seen videos of cops getting training at Gracie BJJ schools on the most efficient/safe way to control and detain an individual, this type of training should be mandatory.

Need to give the cops the training and tools for the job

You can't have it both ways. From the video, the fella resisting was able to stand up while the other fella was fully on top of him. If they "neutralize" him in some way sure you'd have people on screaming police brutality.



Those martial arts aren't worth a shite in real-life situations unless you have done them for a long time and/or are regularly practicing.

Limpy

Is a car being driven by someone under the influence of drink or drugs considered a lethal weapon?

jam_mac_jam

Overheal wrote: »

I will have to go look in the after hours archives - yeeeears ago an Irish lad with mental health issues was gunned down by police in Oregon. The natives on here had an utter fit, even though the Irish lad was “playing stupid games” people argued he did not deserve his stupid prize because lo and behold they felt empathy

I would say the other factor, apart from the empathy is the huge influence of US politics in the last few years in Ireland. Possibly because of social media. Both sides right and left.

Nobody I knew would have supported Bush in real life or on message boards, or the proportion would be tiny. Yet the support for Trump that you hear is surprising in a European country.

I think the overall attitude has seriously shifted to be more left/ right camps rather then looking at the issue. So if you are in the right camp then the police can do no wrong. If you are left you cannot question immigration.

So that could have an impact on the response over time. Not arguing that it's not empathy as well. I do think polarisation is also a factor.

joseywhales

weldoninhio wrote: »

Police are trained in the proper use of tasers. If this guy was just a big cuddly teddy bear of a person, why did he steal the taser in the first place. Would it make him run faster? Did he think it would impart invisibility on him?? He knew exactly what he was up to. He would have taken down the cops given a chance.

He grabbed the tazer because he was afraid he was about to get tazered so he grabbed it, it's a very human reaction to being electrocuted, he is dead because of the incompetence of the police primarily, they looked as fit as a a bunch of sloths in comparison to the man they were trying to arrest.

Feisar

JJayoo wrote: »

From watching the clip and how easy he was throwing the cops around it's pretty clearly they hadn't a clue how to subdue him.

Two adult male cops should be able to subdue random drunk guy.

I have seen videos of cops getting training at Gracie BJJ schools on the most efficient/safe way to control and detain an individual, this type of training should be mandatory.

Need to give the cops the training and tools for the job

They do, it’s called a Glock.

y0ssar1an22

Limpy wrote: »

Is a car being driven by someone under the influence of drink or drugs considered a lethal weapon?

think that must be taser you are thinking of. the ranged weapon with the potential to kill. see link here for a UK officer charged with murder for causing the death of someone:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/14/dalian-atkinson-death-police-officers-suspended-charged

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

They are trained to triple. Whether they took 1 or 7, he set the train in motion.

Do you have a link? Every department varies. There are 17,000+ Departments and trained or not it doesn’t diminish what I said: they took 3 shots not one, which is how you characterized it as the latter.

ShatterAlan

Bullocks wrote: »

Did he also steal one of their teasers and try to use it on the cop?
Chief of police has stood down over it aswell I think

Apparently he was shot dead running away.

Overheal

lawrencesummers wrote: »

God forbid anyone points a nerf gun or a water pistol at you someday.

No, seriously. Danzy will if this thread is any indication defend unto death the slaying of Tamir Rice

Feisar

A taser is a less than lethal weapon, non lethal is an incorrect term. They are intended to be by definition to be less likely to kill than a leather weapon. In most cases these days meaning a sidearm.

Overheal

JJayoo wrote: »

From watching the clip and how easy he was throwing the cops around it's pretty clearly they hadn't a clue how to subdue him.

Two adult male cops should be able to subdue random drunk guy.

I have seen videos of cops getting training at Gracie BJJ schools on the most efficient/safe way to control and detain an individual, this type of training should be mandatory.

Need to give the cops the training and tools for the job

This is it. Setting this one incident aside that is the root of the problem. Too many academies shortcut training in policing as any sort of martial art form with guns: the ultimate end to any prickly altercation.

By way of exaggeration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

Feisar

Overheal wrote: »

This is it. Setting this one incident aside that is the root of the problem. Too many academies shortcut training in policing as any sort of martial art form with guns: the ultimate end to any prickly altercation.

Why go wrestling with someone when a double/treble tap does the trick?

Overheal

Feisar wrote: »

Why go wrestling with someone when a double/treble tap does the trick?

BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

punisher5112

Overheal wrote: »

...and it can’t. Carried 3 shots.

The taser can be used against one's body, it does not need the barbs and cable method.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

He grabbed the tazer because he was afraid he was about to get tazered so he grabbed it, it's a very human reaction to being electrocuted, he is dead because of the incompetence of the police primarily, they looked as fit as a a bunch of sloths in comparison to the man they were trying to arrest.

**** me thats some take. Primarily because, in your completely unedicated opinion, the police were incompetant. Not because he resisted arrest, assaulted an armed police officer, stole the officers weapon and then tried to use the weapon on police. thats all secondary?

ah here, pull the other one.

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

No, seriously. Danzy will if this thread is any indication defend unto death the slaying of Tamir Rice

And he would not be the only one. There is plenty reading on that incident.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

...and it can’t. Carried 3 shots.

After the barbs are finished its still a stun gun

Feisar

Overheal wrote: »

BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

No need to shout.

Anyway I was making the point that when someone has a gun on their hip it becomes the go to show stopper.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

If they thought a taser was going to kill them then they weren’t adequately trained to be on the force. Good they were fired then.

Because they dont kill or because they were certain that he would respect the use of force continuum and not repeatedly shock them over and over until the battery went?

Feisar

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

**** me thats some take. Primarily because, in your completely unedicated opinion, the police were incompetant. Not because he resisted arrest, assaulted an armed police officer, stole the officers weapon and then tried to use the weapon on police. thats all secondary?

ah here, pull the other one.

Is this not one of those times where we collectively say: Darwin Award. Do not fúck about with someone with a gun unless you have a bigger one.

lawrencesummers

Another fact that people are not considering here is the range of a Taser is 25 feet.

Considering he was a few car lengths away when the shot was fired he was at the limit of the range If not outside it for the non lethal weapon. Against a cop wearing a bullet proof vest that wouldn’t have transmitted the electric anyway.

That’s not to even mention it was being fired by a drunk person, running in the opposite direction

The taser wasn’t a danger to the Cop if he took stock of the situation.