Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

Mic 1972

Stateofyou wrote: »

Ah great, so you understand that when adrenaline hits that it would have been very difficult for Rayshard to hit a cop with a taser (and indeed he missed) in the face of adrenaline, the fact he was drunk, and also running away. Cops are trained, the average civilian is not.

The average civilian doesn't wrestle with the cops and steal a taser.
Criminals do

Overheal

I Am Nobody wrote: »

Officers are trained to deal with threats,regardless how random they are.You are pulling straws to bolster your ideas..

But not human beings?

Spon Farmer

Stateofyou wrote: »

People of colour care about colour. Because they're affected. And so do their allies. Only whities with white privilege say "who cares about colour." :rolleyes: You don't care because you don't have to endure racism because of the colour of your skin. Racism and bias which was confirmed by the US GOVERNMENT AND THE US PRESIDENT.

What "white privilege" does Mic1972 have?

weldoninhio

Overheal wrote: »

Do you have anything you've actually read?

Because I regret to inform you this is behind a paywall, so you have no idea what is going on here you just saw a headline that suited your narrative.

I have read it, some of us subscribe to things (gasp).

https://phys.org/news/2019-07-white-police-officers-minorities.html

Overheal

Spon Farmer wrote: »

What "white privilege" does Mic1972 have?

Presumably the kind that grants one the power to say with conviction, "who cares about color?"

Feisar

Overheal wrote: »

But not human beings?

Funny, all of my dealing with law enforcement have been pleasant and cordial. I wonder why that is?

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

If they had brought him in alive from this altercation, he would have been served the death penalty for what had already transpired?

They were bringing him in alive. He resisted and escalated the situation which ended badly for him.

All the results of his actions. He could have been arrested for DUI but he chose not to let that happen. His fault.

They tried to bring him in alive and he was having none of it. He didn't fancy going back to jail and decided to play a stupid game.

weldoninhio

Overheal wrote: »

The parole board thought so.



Flee and evade. I don't know if this will come as a shock to you but police do not always win a pursuit. I'm not sure what the purpose of this line of questioning is, though, unless you're trying to argue he thought it was suicide by cop - and that's silly.

He was paroled due to Coronavirus. And even without the shooting. His DUI prove that the parole board were wrong.

Stateofyou

Spon Farmer wrote: »

So everyone who gets fired is guilty and deserves it and it is never never done for political motives, ETC. ?

Saying politics, etc. is actually putting it plainly. If I added more reasons then it would be more complex.

No I will not spoon feed you those other reasons - "teach a man to fish.." and all that

It is incredibly naive, maybe even foolish, to think that there is no political shenanigans, or people rushing about to protect their own jobs, etc.

There was no police brutality here. Rolffe and the other officer treated Brooks with patience and respect for 40 minutes. Brooks was likewise respectful and pleasant and appeared quite harmful for 40 minutes.

The time came for the situation to come to an end. Brooks was to be arrested and even seemed to accept it.

Then is a moment the story turned into an entirely different and unexpected thing.

This amiable man took down two trained police officers with very little difficulty. He actually threw Rolffe over his back using one hand.

The cops warned him he would be tased and the second officer drew the weapon but did NOT fire. He repeated the warning and Brooks just took it from him.

And he used it.

Was Rolffe legally, morally, spiritually, etc. justified him. I have no idea and I'm not going to pretend to be an expert or pretend I'm a fly to the office wall. Could he have reacted differently?

The situation went out of control and he reacted. Could he have reacted differently? I have no idea because I'm not going to pretend I could have done any better.

Can someone so me the racism and brutality here because I don't see two white cops and dead black man. I see is three men whose lives will never be the same again.

The US police force have a very strong police force and an almost water-tight legislative loophole. YOU prove the ETC of your claim that he was fired for political reasons. Political reasons wasn't enough to fire MANY, many others, as has been acknowledged today by the US government Senators in saying that "shuffling bad cops around" to another posting is going to be addressed now. There's going to be a changing of laws and accountability. According the US Government and the US President who signed a never before seen action against police bias and violence with an executive order.

You can try to justify that narrative but at the end of the day it went against training and policy and he was fired.
Prove otherwise with your source against what the police dept, US senators and US President have stated. I'll wait.

Mic 1972

weldoninhio wrote: »

They have in the Floyd thread. In terms of percentage of crimes committed by ethnicity/colour whites are disproportionately killed by cops.

disproportional as too much or too little?

Overheal

weldoninhio wrote: »

I have read it, some of us subscribe to things (gasp).

https://phys.org/news/2019-07-white-police-officers-minorities.html

Newer article than that one:

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/killed-police-black-men-likely-white-men/

both studies published to the same journal (PNAS).

Spon Farmer

Stateofyou wrote: »

So his colleagues and family aren't the authority here, you are, as some IRISH keyboard warrior who never knew him? But "you know" something...hahahhaha
Yeah delusions of grandeur that's what you know. As if your opinion means anything in a US case against an American man in an American justice system in which it's own government admits it is biased and flawed and his own family, friends and colleagues vouch for him. You need to sit this one out.

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

You don't know Brooks either and are judging him on the colour of his skin while you pound the keys on your own keyboard.

weldoninhio

Stateofyou wrote: »

The US police force have a very strong police force and an almost water-tight legislative loophole. YOU prove the ETC of your claim that he was fired for political reasons. Political reasons wasn't enough to fire MANY, many others, as has been acknowledged today by the US government Senators in saying that "shuffling bad cops around" to another posting is going to be addressed now. There's going to be a changing of laws and accountability. According the US Government and the US President who signed a never before seen action against police bias and violence with an executive order.

You can try to justify that narrative but at the end of the day it went against training and policy and he was fired.
Prove otherwise with your source against what the police dept, US senators and US President have stated. I'll wait.

Still waiting for a link to what the US President has stated. You keep bringing it up, but aren’t backing it up.

BattleCorp

Stateofyou wrote: »

Who cares what some Irish bloke believes? The US police department who employed him are the authorities here and they disagree, and he was fired.

I suspect that was a political firing. Time will tell.

weldoninhio

Mic 1972 wrote: »

disproportional as too much or too little?

Whites are killed a lot more than the % of crime they are involved with, as far as I remember black peoples deaths are in line with their crime figures.

Spon Farmer

Stateofyou wrote: »

Are you a person of colour? Don't speak for them if you're not. ACTUAL people of colour have spoken for him including his family, friends, the BLM movement and their allies. The police dept the killer cop worked for also fired him. And the US government and President acknowledged major issues in the US police form and have started to implement massive reform.

Don't speak for people or a country that you're not a part of. Take a seat.

Are you a person of colour? Don't speak for them if you're not.

Don't speak for people or a country that you're not a part of. Take a seat.

Baggly

Mod

Lads, lets calm it down a bit and

A) stop haranguing each other
stop repeating the same things without sources
C) stop calling each other keyboard warriors or something to that effect.

Cards to follow if not.

Feisar

weldoninhio wrote: »

Still waiting for a link to what the US President has stated. You keep bringing it up, but aren’t backing it up.

Ah in fairness, it’s Trump we are talking about, does it really matter?

weldoninhio

Overheal wrote: »

Newer article than that one:

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/killed-police-black-men-likely-white-men/

both studies published to the same journal (PNAS).

One is a peer reviewed study (mine).
One is a paper (yours).
One reviewed instances based on ethnicity. (Mine)
One didn’t. (Yours)

Mic 1972

Stateofyou wrote: »

The US police force have a very strong police force and an almost water-tight legislative loophole. YOU prove the ETC of your claim that he was fired for political reasons. Political reasons wasn't enough to fire MANY, many others, as has been acknowledged today by the US government Senators in saying that "shuffling bad cops around" to another posting is going to be addressed now. There's going to be a changing of laws and accountability. According the US Government and the US President who signed a never before seen action against police bias and violence with an executive order.

You can try to justify that narrative but at the end of the day it went against training and policy and he was fired.
Prove otherwise with your source against what the police dept, US senators and US President have stated. I'll wait.

You kicking a dead horse mate, the guy was wrong and cannot be defended. By using Brooks as a example of police bias you are doing a disservice to the black community. As stated earlier by another poster, the black community should be the one distancing from this

Stateofyou

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The average civilian doesn't wrestle with the cops and steal a taser.
Criminals do

Many a drunk civilian acts the maggot against police. As many public civilian/police videos show when it's white people interacting with the police. I in fact posted a video from last year of a white man resisting arrest from 2 officers, stole a baton, beat them both with it and stole their police vehicle. No shots fired. There's another one where the white dude disobeys orders to lie down and gets up and CHASES the cop off, then gets in his car, rams the cop car, and no shots fired. Mass white shooters in the US, who are calmly apprehended and given water to drink and taken through a fast food drive through on the way to jail. Ad nauseam. It's such a problem with obvious bias that the US government and President have acknowledged it as well as major city police depts and they are reforming those depts.

Spon Farmer

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's also unhelpful to claim that posters aid he was running away to torture babies.

Lets stick with facts.

I don't give a fcuk what he did before the night he was shot. That had nothing to do with why he was shot. Leave out all the subhuman, baby torturing stuff. Lets look at the night he was shot.

The altercation details are fact. Therefore the resisting arrest, assaulting two police officers, stealing a taser, pointing it at an officer and firing it are fact.

These facts lead me to believe that the officers felt under threat and therefore were justified in using deadly force to protect themselves.

Brooks was the architect of his own misfortune.

I have to wonder how many people watched the same video we did.

Rolffe was clearly in a state of shock at the whole thing. Did people not see how he fumbled drawing the taser himself?

Also I said earlier he missed but I believe the dash cam shows he Tse Brooks but the man kept going.

BattleCorp

Stateofyou wrote: »

You're a police apologist, which is senseless in the face of the fact that the said police force has fired him for his conduct. On top of the history of this particular cop with past disciplinary marks on his record.
Yep, empathy is a good quality and I spoke about that. He should have thought about the consequence whilst he was drunk and in the reality of the explicit racist and biased problematic police force in which it's own government and President acknowledged was a problem that they are now attempting to rectify?
The police officer who was FIRED wasn't thinking of Brooks' humanity and the fact he was a father and husband before he was killed by multiple bullets to the back, was he?

I'm not a police apologist. If the cops do something wrong, I'm not fine with that.

The cops in the George Floyd case did wrong. Send them to jail. I've no problem with that. I just don't see the Brooks incident being remotely in the same sphere.

Hold tight on the decision of the police force to fire him as that was a politically motivated stunt. Time will tell if that was the correct decision or not.

You say the president acknowledges problems with the police force. That may be so. Nobody here has said there are no problems in the police force over there. There clearly are problems. But in this case, I do think the shooting was justified due to Brooks posing a danger to the police.

We disagree on this, but hey ho, that's the beauty of opinions.

weldoninhio

Stateofyou wrote: »

It's such a problem with obvious bias that the US government and President have acknowledged it as well as major city police depts and they are reforming those depts.

Can you back this up? Where has US President acknowledged Inherent racism in US policing??

Mic 1972

weldoninhio wrote: »

Whites are killed a lot more than the % of crime they are involved with, as far as I remember black peoples deaths are in line with their crime figures.

Thanks, that puts things into a whole different perspective
I hope this will become matter of discussion when riots are over

Overheal

weldoninhio wrote: »

One is a peer reviewed study (mine).
One is a paper (yours).
One reviewed instances based on ethnicity. (Mine)
One didn’t. (Yours)

"We use data on police-involved deaths to estimate how the risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States varies across social groups. We estimate the lifetime and age-specific risks of being killed by police by race and sex. We also provide estimates of the proportion of all deaths accounted for by police use of force. We find that African American men and women, American Indian/Alaska Native men and women, and Latino men face higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. We find that Latina women and Asian/Pacific Islander men and women face lower risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. Risk peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for all groups. For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes of death."

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/34/16793.full.pdf

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/suppl/2019/07/30/1821204116.DCSupplemental/pnas.1821204116.sapp.pdf

Spon Farmer

Stateofyou wrote: »

Who cares what some Irish bloke believes? The US police department who employed him are the authorities here and they disagree, and he was fired.

Who cares what some Irish bloke believes? The US police department who employed him are the authorities here and they have never unjustly dismissed an employee.

Ever.

Stateofyou

Mic 1972 wrote: »

You kicking a dead horse mate, the guy was wrong and cannot be defended. By using Brooks as a example of police bias you are doing a disservice to the black community. As stated earlier by another poster, the black community should be the one distancing from this

There's no dead horse here, mate. The cop was fired so he was wrong and his actions indefensible. The black community and their allies are actually speaking out against this. Post your proof that it's to the contrary that his family, friends, colleagues, BLM movement, the US Government and the US President and the killer cop's own police department are not in fact standing against the cop and police bias/brutality. Ive been waiting for a lot of proof now and no one seems to have any. Very telling. The only thing alive here is bias, prejudice and keyboard warriors.

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not the one conflating child cruelty as torture.

You are right. My transposing of the word torture instead of cruelty changes everything that happend on the night Brooks was shot. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Spon Farmer

weldoninhio wrote: »

Sure at the first press conference his brother put a shout out to any celeb that wanted to pay for the funeral ffs.

That is a joke?

Right?